bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 8, 2024 16:13:17 GMT -5
BTW, I pretty much never would stand for the National Anthem before sporting events, because I have found playing the anthem before sporting events to be a very stupid tradition. The pressure of sitting post 9/11 was too great for me to do this - although even post 9/11 - this is among the more stupid traditions in sports.
It is long past time - they need to stop this tradition before every sporting event. These kinds of litmus tests for one's patriotism needs to stop.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Apr 8, 2024 16:26:00 GMT -5
What does that even mean? you guys were the one that told me about her poor reputation . I didn’t know her from Adam. We told you she was a staunch conservative? LOL. Her flinging off her "damn mask" at the introductory press conference was pretty epic.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,143
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Post by trojansc on Apr 8, 2024 16:27:25 GMT -5
BTW, I pretty much never would stand for the National Anthem before sporting events, because I have found playing the anthem before sporting events to be a very stupid tradition. The pressure of sitting post 9/11 was too great for me to do this - although even post 9/11 - this is among the more stupid traditions in sports. It is long past time - they need to stop this tradition before every sporting event. These kinds of litmus tests for one's patriotism needs to stop. So I actually don't really mind the national anthem - though I do think it's strange for sporting events. I DO enjoy it being played in FIVB competitions, when it's two international squads playing against each other.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 8, 2024 16:33:37 GMT -5
I DO enjoy it being played in FIVB competitions, when it's two international squads playing against each other. International competition is truly the only time it makes sense, unless you're a fan of jingoism.
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Post by mikegarrison on Apr 8, 2024 16:40:35 GMT -5
I DO enjoy it being played in FIVB competitions, when it's two international squads playing against each other. International competition is truly the only time it makes sense, unless you're a fan of jingoism. I am always amused by how international sporting events make a big show out of supposedly placing sport over politics, but then they have everybody wearing their national colors, play national anthems for the winners, and of course just generally have people representing their country rather than their sport. It is dizzyingly hypocritical.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,445
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 8, 2024 16:43:32 GMT -5
BTW, I pretty much never would stand for the National Anthem before sporting events, because I have found playing the anthem before sporting events to be a very stupid tradition. The pressure of sitting post 9/11 was too great for me to do this - although even post 9/11 - this is among the more stupid traditions in sports. It is long past time - they need to stop this tradition before every sporting event. These kinds of litmus tests for one's patriotism needs to stop. So I actually don't really mind the national anthem - though I do think it's strange for sporting events. I DO enjoy it being played in FIVB competitions, when it's two international squads playing against each other. Anthem for Olympics is great. Playing it for international events is fine. I am not really that opposed to playing the anthem at non-international sporting events - I just think it is unnecessary to play it for EVERY sporting event. In fact, I may be rather patriotic. At least for those that are - playing it becomes more special when it isn't being played all the time - or when it starts to become compulsory, I think it starts to lose a lot.
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Post by n00b on Apr 8, 2024 16:46:58 GMT -5
The revoking of a scholarship seems a tad extreme for something that could be considered a free speech issue. Remember when Kylee McLaughlin sued Oklahoma for kicking her off the team for her outspoken conservative beliefs during the peak of the BLM movement? Seems like Oklahoma's lawyers argued (successfully?) that coaches are allowed to discipline players for political opinions because political disagreements can disrupt team unity. “While Plaintiff was free to make bigoted statements, she was not free from the consequences of how her teammates perceived those statements,” the Waltons’ motion states. “The First Amendment cannot force her teammates to trust Plaintiff or desire to play with her. Consequently, the Complaint makes clear that Coach Walton was within her rights to cultivate a winning ‘team atmosphere by ensuring the players that ‘trust’ each other would be on the court.” ... Because an athlete’s political views may not be shared by other athletes, the expression of such views can be subject to punishment, the coaches’ motion argues, saying that “a player’s speech that potentially disrupts, distracts from, or hurts ‘team unity,’ ‘sportsmanship,’ or the ‘cohesiveness of the team,’ is subject to a coach’s remedial action.”ocpathink.org/post/independent-journalism/ou-coaches-say-players-can-be-disciplined-over-politicsIt would seem like if the above is true, then one could say that individuals refusing to stand for the anthem could be disruptive of team unity.
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Post by brooselee on Apr 8, 2024 16:49:48 GMT -5
If you don’t want to stand, that’s fine. Just sit, Others can follow your lead and sit also.
The playing is a tradition. I say keep the tradition. I also like praying in school and praying before meals.
Everyone is free to do their own thing. If schools want to not play, I have no issue either but since they do play, I do my part and stand.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,445
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 8, 2024 16:52:08 GMT -5
International competition is truly the only time it makes sense, unless you're a fan of jingoism. I am always amused by how international sporting events make a big show out of supposedly placing sport over politics, but then they have everybody wearing their national colors, play national anthems for the winners, and of course just generally have people representing their country rather than their sport. It is dizzyingly hypocritical. Politics? I think one is representing their country, not their politics. The Olympics or something like the Rider Cup is about representing your country - more so than just playing the sport (especially when it comes to team sports). Something like the (British) Open is all about the sport and has nothing to do with 'representing their country'. Or Wimbledon, French Open, Tour of France, etc... Playing the National anthem of country that the winner is from for the winner of the Open would seem really odd to me and much different than playing the anthem for the gold medal Olympic volleyball team.
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Post by nowhereman on Apr 8, 2024 17:01:08 GMT -5
One possible solution: just play instrumental version like they do for international events. I admit I don't like listening to certain singers.
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Post by vbman100 on Apr 8, 2024 17:11:16 GMT -5
The revoking of a scholarship seems a tad extreme for something that could be considered a free speech issue. Remember when Kylee McLaughlin sued Oklahoma for kicking her off the team for her outspoken conservative beliefs during the peak of the BLM movement? Seems like Oklahoma's lawyers argued (successfully?) that coaches are allowed to discipline players for political opinions because political disagreements can disrupt team unity. “While Plaintiff was free to make bigoted statements, she was not free from the consequences of how her teammates perceived those statements,” the Waltons’ motion states. “The First Amendment cannot force her teammates to trust Plaintiff or desire to play with her. Consequently, the Complaint makes clear that Coach Walton was within her rights to cultivate a winning ‘team atmosphere by ensuring the players that ‘trust’ each other would be on the court.” ... Because an athlete’s political views may not be shared by other athletes, the expression of such views can be subject to punishment, the coaches’ motion argues, saying that “a player’s speech that potentially disrupts, distracts from, or hurts ‘team unity,’ ‘sportsmanship,’ or the ‘cohesiveness of the team,’ is subject to a coach’s remedial action.”ocpathink.org/post/independent-journalism/ou-coaches-say-players-can-be-disciplined-over-politicsIt would seem like if the above is true, then one could say that individuals refusing to stand for the anthem could be disruptive of team unity. Yes but when the entire team does not attend the anthem, because a woke head coach doesn’t want her team to be out there, it would be hard to discipline about team unity.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 8, 2024 17:40:44 GMT -5
The revoking of a scholarship seems a tad extreme for something that could be considered a free speech issue. Remember when Kylee McLaughlin sued Oklahoma for kicking her off the team for her outspoken conservative beliefs during the peak of the BLM movement? Seems like Oklahoma's lawyers argued (successfully?) that coaches are allowed to discipline players for political opinions because political disagreements can disrupt team unity. I would argue that being an assh*le is protected speech and taking her scholarship away would be a violation, but McLaughlin herself said she didn't have her scholarship revoked.
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Post by n00b on Apr 8, 2024 18:03:01 GMT -5
Remember when Kylee McLaughlin sued Oklahoma for kicking her off the team for her outspoken conservative beliefs during the peak of the BLM movement? Seems like Oklahoma's lawyers argued (successfully?) that coaches are allowed to discipline players for political opinions because political disagreements can disrupt team unity. I would argue that being an assh*le is protected speech and taking her scholarship away would be a violation, but McLaughlin herself said she didn't have her scholarship revoked. Right. She was kicked off the team. So an anthem policy of team removal while keeping their scholarship would be ok? For the record, I'm opposed to that. And I think kicking McLaughlin off the team was dumb. But bad coaching is bad coaching and she lost her job.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 8, 2024 18:08:42 GMT -5
I would argue that being an assh*le is protected speech and taking her scholarship away would be a violation, but McLaughlin herself said she didn't have her scholarship revoked. Right. She was kicked off the team. So an anthem policy of team removal while keeping their scholarship would be ok? For the record, I'm opposed to that. And I think kicking McLaughlin off the team was dumb. But bad coaching is bad coaching and she lost her job. According to her, she wasn't kicked off the team. There was an option for her to stay, with conditions. But I would be fine with kicking a kid off because she's an assh*le who alienated her teammates and coaches.
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Post by n00b on Apr 8, 2024 18:13:24 GMT -5
Right. She was kicked off the team. So an anthem policy of team removal while keeping their scholarship would be ok? For the record, I'm opposed to that. And I think kicking McLaughlin off the team was dumb. But bad coaching is bad coaching and she lost her job. According to her, she wasn't kicked off the team. There was an option for her to stay, with conditions. But I would be fine with kicking a kid off because she's an assh*le who alienated her teammates and coaches. If the coach decided that kneeling for the anthem is being "an assh*le who alienated her teammates and coaches"? Or just your definition of that? Maybe the school could offer "Patriotism training" as the conditional offer for them to stay on the team.
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