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Post by Garand on Jan 21, 2014 18:07:16 GMT -5
I think there is an "age appropriate" aspect to all this. If you accepted a scholarship to play for Bobby Knight back in the day, you knew exactly what you were letting yourself in for. No excuses for not realizing that before the fact. However, that said, while that style of coaching MAY be acceptable in college or in the pro's, I think it is generally inappropriate with younger girls at the high school or club age level. True, these kids probably could have gone to another high school to play volleyball, but I still think that high school and club coaches should provide a style more nurturing than intimidating. And if and when these coaches become too brutal and degrading, the HS admin should step in and make a change. Just my opinion.
Despite all that, benching a player for opting to miss a match is entirely justified - no, required - to maintain control of the team.
So if he was terminated for brutal coaching tactics, then he probably should be gone. If it was just for the benching, then the admin failed everyone by not allowing him do his job.
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Post by junior1 on Jan 21, 2014 19:02:13 GMT -5
I've seen several sides of this coin. Not sure which occurred here, but the thread runs on because there are possibilities out there.
A lot of people worry about a different picture being drawn here, the issue of scapegoating.
On one hand you have the possibility that there has been coach who wins a lot but who crosses the line in terms of being demanding and lacking candor in a high school setting.
There is one camp who says, he is tough, but what he does makes us and our children better. There is the other camp that says, he is brutal and needs to have his method's restrained and/or be retired from coaching.
& yet on the other hand, there is the worry that a culture of entitlement has been encouraged. It has happened more than a few times, where a group of elite individuals who expect favoritism are rewarded with the termination of another. (it is considered an accepted reality in the NBA).
It is akin to the "Salem Witch Trials" where a group of willful and arrogant adolescents decided to band together and ostracize certain people. They became particularly powerful with their hate and wield it like a weapon. Then their parents and coterie of supporters follow them.
It so often happens that "star" people think they deserve something different than the rest. When developing a team, you should care about every member of the team. For every starter, there is that child sitting on the bench just begging for a chance to play. & hey most coaches say if you get a chance to play, run with it. Do you re-bench that child if you are still winning?
If a child skipped an event, because they were playing a "weak schedule of matches" for a time, then that selfsame child accepted the minimal punishment, thoroughly expecting to return to the starting lineup afterwards; how does that follow the idea that you are going to give everyone opportunity? Seems like a hard way to build character and humility in your athletes? Rather it sends an awkward message.
I think most educators want their charges to respect everyone, recognize everyone as important and be an upstanding person. Just because you are a better volleyball player, that doesn't mean...
Well you know. Only the interested parties know what truly happened. We have to hope that the harm that happened fades in time and that everyone emerges as stronger people.
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Post by Socleanclean on Jan 22, 2014 11:17:08 GMT -5
I watched an interesting TV show that put some prospective on this situation in my eyes. Friday Night Tykes is a new television show about youth football league in San Antonio. It is almost comical at how these coaches are building a team culture for these 8 year old football players. As I stated before I wish this type of coaching would just go away for all levels of sports. You can build teams and players with discipline, passion and trust without breaking down players. I challenge all coaches to watch this show and look at their own philosophies. Hopefully we as a coaching community will realize this type of coaching isn't right, no matter the age or level.
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Post by mplssetter on Jan 23, 2014 1:04:11 GMT -5
I haven't seen that show yet, only a commercial. How are the producers of the show portraying these coaches? That makes a difference. Are they taking the approach of exposing this type of shocking over-the-top behavior by coaches? Or are they making them out to be tough-love, disciplinarians that get results and make the kids better?
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Post by Socleanclean on Jan 23, 2014 1:44:01 GMT -5
It is open for interpretation throughout the show, but there is no one coming out and saying that this style is wrong. However, I don't believe they are glorifying them in anyway.
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Post by toomuchvb on Jan 23, 2014 10:47:12 GMT -5
A coach and player's mother appeared on the Today Show recently. The coach said the in-your-face, tough style was not his approach. The mother said she liked the tough style. Said her son could handle it and feels it's good for him.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Jan 24, 2014 22:11:38 GMT -5
An article from a few years ago: Veteran Southlake Carroll coach Arthur Stanfield has molded program with playoffs in mindIn it, he mentions "he upset some parents when he moved five sophomores to varsity in 2009." He also said he usually moved two or three freshman up to JV every year, which wasn't done before his hiring. No doubt some parents weren't happy when their dear daughter was leapfrogged by a younger player. Shows that "upset parents" (and his publicly calling them out) is nothing new.
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txmom
High School
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Post by txmom on Jan 24, 2014 23:35:35 GMT -5
I am a SLC mom of a former VB player. He was fired for very good reasons, not just one player or one season! Please trust me when I say it had nothing to do with wins or losses or a "wealthy" school district! The complaints started his first year here. Bully for sure, but also played the favorite player game and it wasn't always the best players. If you played for his club, you were golden. If you didn't, you didn't start! It was very obvious when a player could start as a Sophomore when she played for his club, when she switched clubs, she no longer started her JR and SR years. She is a strong DI player now. He would say, "I don't care what club you play for as long as you play." That was stated, but very untrue. He knows the game without a doubt, but he doesn't know the way to coach young women respectably. They were "idiots" and "mental midgets", his words not mine. It was horrible to watch your club confident player have her self esteem crumbled by him. Once club season picked up, so did her confidence! She was stronger that I would have ever been not to let him defeat her. Many parents with younger siblings in the Athletic department wouldn't dare complain, because you wouldn't risk the repercussions put on the younger child(ren). His coaching methods have made DI college coaches look like child's play for my daughter. I guess I could thank him for that, not really though! SLC has many state championships in other sports where the coaches are highly respected. It's time to bring that to the volleyball program. The talent and work ethic is there, now let's find a respectable leader!
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Post by elevationvb on Jan 25, 2014 0:50:32 GMT -5
I am a SLC mom of a former VB player. He was fired for very good reasons, not just one player or one season! Please trust me when I say it had nothing to do with wins or losses or a "wealthy" school district! The complaints started his first year here. Bully for sure, but also played the favorite player game and it wasn't always the best players. If you played for his club, you were golden. If you didn't, you didn't start! It was very obvious when a player could start as a Sophomore when she played for his club, when she switched clubs, she no longer started her JR and SR years. She is a strong DI player now. He would say, "I don't care what club you play for as long as you play." That was stated, but very untrue. He knows the game without a doubt, but he doesn't know the way to coach young women respectably. They were "idiots" and "mental midgets", his words not mine. It was horrible to watch your club confident player have her self esteem crumbled by him. Once club season picked up, so did her confidence! She was stronger that I would have ever been not to let him defeat her. Many parents with younger siblings in the Athletic department wouldn't dare complain, because you wouldn't risk the repercussions put on the younger child(ren). His coaching methods have made DI college coaches look like child's play for my daughter. I guess I could thank him for that, not really though! SLC has many state championships in other sports where the coaches are highly respected. It's time to bring that to the volleyball program. The talent and work ethic is there, now let's find a respectable leader! Attack parents in 3 . . 2 . . . 1 . . .
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Post by rogero1 on Jan 26, 2014 3:14:26 GMT -5
I am a SLC mom of a former VB player. He was fired for very good reasons, not just one player or one season! Please trust me when I say it had nothing to do with wins or losses or a "wealthy" school district! The complaints started his first year here. Bully for sure, but also played the favorite player game and it wasn't always the best players. If you played for his club, you were golden. If you didn't, you didn't start! It was very obvious when a player could start as a Sophomore when she played for his club, when she switched clubs, she no longer started her JR and SR years. She is a strong DI player now. He would say, "I don't care what club you play for as long as you play." That was stated, but very untrue. He knows the game without a doubt, but he doesn't know the way to coach young women respectably. They were "idiots" and "mental midgets", his words not mine. It was horrible to watch your club confident player have her self esteem crumbled by him. Once club season picked up, so did her confidence! She was stronger that I would have ever been not to let him defeat her. Many parents with younger siblings in the Athletic department wouldn't dare complain, because you wouldn't risk the repercussions put on the younger child(ren). His coaching methods have made DI college coaches look like child's play for my daughter. I guess I could thank him for that, not really though! SLC has many state championships in other sports where the coaches are highly respected. It's time to bring that to the volleyball program. The talent and work ethic is there, now let's find a respectable leader! Sounds like a bunch of coaches that I know of around my area.
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Post by sevb on Jan 26, 2014 10:25:46 GMT -5
News flash... Most young adults ARE idiots and mental midgets... Google "young athlete gets in trouble"...
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Post by elevationvb on Jan 26, 2014 13:29:22 GMT -5
News flash... Most young adults ARE idiots and mental midgets... Google "young athlete gets in trouble"... Is that anything like googling, "young teachers with underage kids?" Or, "Coaches behaving badly." I guess you can find anything you want on the internet.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 14:19:27 GMT -5
News flash... Most young adults ARE idiots and mental midgets... Google "young athlete gets in trouble"... Is that anything like googling, "young teachers with underage kids?" Or, "Coaches behaving badly." I guess you can find anything you want on the internet. Actually, young people are "idiots" as we use the word colloquially. And that's why we coach and teach--our responsibility is to teach them how to be responsible, functioning citizens, parents, friends, etc. Young people ARE juvenile and irresponsible, pretty much always have been (at least adults have been saying so going back to the Greeks and Romans). The trick is to help them past that stage. I think that requires discipline and structure...but I don't think belittling them or insulting them is part of that.
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PTW winner
Junior
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Posts: 465
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Post by PTW winner on Jan 26, 2014 15:54:33 GMT -5
Is that anything like googling, "young teachers with underage kids?" Or, "Coaches behaving badly." I guess you can find anything you want on the internet. Actually, young people are "idiots" as we use the word colloquially. And that's why we coach and teach--our responsibility is to teach them how to be responsible, functioning citizens, parents, friends, etc. Young people ARE juvenile and irresponsible, pretty much always have been (at least adults have been saying so going back to the Greeks and Romans). The trick is to help them past that stage. I think that requires discipline and structure...but I don't think belittling them or insulting them is part of that. +1
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Post by bigfan on Jan 26, 2014 16:24:32 GMT -5
A school filled with entitled wealthy white kids who go home to the gated McMansions their entitled hyper-status-seeking parents purchased to hide from urban blight and national diversity. I love your posts you make me laugh.
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