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Post by rightcoast on Apr 22, 2014 19:12:43 GMT -5
I don't know what teams they played for but I don't think the teams of the players you listed earned their bid at east coast. Also ka Ulukoa didn't seem to miss their two players much did they?
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Post by Semp12 on Apr 23, 2014 8:57:10 GMT -5
Last year's BJNC 16's: lowest CA team finished 21st (out of 36). 22nd thru 36th was 8 teams from Midwest and 6 from East coast. Top 21 only saw 4 from Midwest and 2 from East Coast. East Coast has four bid tourn for potential 12 bids, Midwest has two for 9 and Cali two for 13. The system is set up to get more teams from the East Coast. Unfortunately, as others have posted, this does dilute the field at Nationals. For this year's 16's, I believe Milwaukee VBC is good enough to go to Nationals. Unfortunately, with more East Coast teams coming to the Chicago qualifier, they missed out on a bid and now have to cancel their annual trip to the SCVA boys classic and go to the East Coast qualifier to try and get a bid. I didn't do an actual count, but another factor that promotes more East Coast teams getting bids is that more East Coast teams come to the Midwest events, where almost none of the Midwest teams go out East. For the East Coast teams that get bids in the Chicago qualifier, this potentially knocks out deserving Midwest teams and allows more trickle down in the East coast events. As the Cali teams don't seem to travel outside of CA for qualifiers, I'm certain there are more deserving teams that are left out. Remember, this is the National championships, it should have the BEST teams competing, regardless of where they are from. This forum is all about the east vs. west coast argument now, on multiple threads. I'll make a few points though: No one is stopping teams from traveling to bid tournaments. People are saying the East Coast stinks, they don't deserve bids; but then also are complaining when the East Coast teams go and earn bids in the Midwest or even on the west coast on occasion. If they were so bad, they wouldn't have earned those bids. In my opinion, if you want a bid, either earn it at your local bid tourney, or travel. That is the way it is. Maybe the East Coast has an extra bid earning opportunity, but at the end of the day they have to earn it. There is also the At-Large process. If a team feels their overall body of work proves they should be in open, well, they will be there. Combining the East Coast to one big bid tournament would be a terrible idea. Why reward teams that have one strong weekend where two upsets could earn a bid? Spreading them out keeps it a little more selective. Keep saying High School season is stopping teams from going to East Coast Championships. Plenty of teams from the East Coast also have their HS seasons during that time. Some don't attend, Yorktowne and other PA clubs. Some still attend, NJ coaches know their club kids miss that weekend to play with Warren Sixpak. Finally, I've made this point before. There is more volleyball and more depth out on the west coast, I am not arguing that. So when an east coast team loses their best player to the Youth or Junior National Teams, they take an enormous hit. When a west coast team loses their best player, that drop-off typically won't be as severe, since there is a bit more depth.
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Post by rightcoast on Apr 26, 2014 6:16:07 GMT -5
For me its not about east vs west. Its about the east representing themselves poorly at Nationals. Specifically 16 and under, east coast teams send around 10 teams to nationals out about 25 total teams in the bid tournament. To me, Sixpak 16-1 will probably get a bid at east coast and they finished 41st in SCVA. I could give multiple examples like that. I just don't think us east coast teams represent ourselves well when we send our middle of the road teams to nationals when SoCal sends so relatively few by comparison. There is no single solution that everyone will agree to. I'm just happy there is a conversation about it.
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Post by rhinovb14 on Apr 26, 2014 6:32:05 GMT -5
May I ask what teams you consider good representation? Just curious. Not trying to be chippy. From what I've seen and expect from 16s....Puerto Rico team, pace, eden, Braddock, coastal, any more I'm missing? 14s wise at major bid tournaments.....eden (at full roster) has done very well, pace, Braddock, are all I've really seen....I'm sure I'm missing some?
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Post by rightcoast on Apr 26, 2014 7:43:14 GMT -5
Thank you for asking because I believe that is the biggest misunderstanding of this thread. What is good representation?
Over all age groups. The average finish for east coast bid winners was 27th. Two PR teams finished 1st and 3rd. I didn't include them in the average because I don't view them as east coast teams. Now they did win their bid at ECC but it prooves my point that east coast championships is by far the easiest to win a bid therefore the weakest teams qualify. If I had a club that had to win a bid. I would choose to go to ECC first, then either PSU/York, then NoCal bid.
I think you're trying to argue the east coast teams deserve respect nationally. I agree, but only on a team to team basis. Clubs that deserve national recognition bring multiple teams to gold or silver annually. I don't believe any club from the east coast can say they do that. Even Coastal who has a team that finished on the medal stand the last two years is still a one super team club. I would say they're a club on the rise though.
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Post by future on Apr 26, 2014 10:23:35 GMT -5
Two PR teams finished 1st and 3rd. I didn't include them in the average because I don't view them as east coast teams. So when Puerto Rican Teams compete for Bids at 3 of the 4 East Coast Qualifiers , you still don't consider them "East Coast" teams? EPIC FAIL ! Give it a rest, Bud. Get back in the gym and work with your teams and stop beating this dead horse......we'll see you in Houston. Good Luck.
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Post by rhinovb14 on Apr 26, 2014 12:05:57 GMT -5
Ditto
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Post by eastcoastball on Apr 27, 2014 20:54:47 GMT -5
Coastal 16s is looking pretty good. I wouldn't say Coastal is just a one super team club. maybe two
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Post by rightcoast on May 4, 2014 20:23:37 GMT -5
Someone answer these questions. What tournament is the easiest to win a bid? What tournament bid winners produce the weakest teams?
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Post by gooohsah on May 5, 2014 10:47:16 GMT -5
East Coast is definitely one of the easiest tournaments to get a bid. That being said, it doesn't always produce last place teams. Puerto Rican clubs often come to ECC's to get the bid, and often teams who were just one place away in the other qualifiers manage to get the bid and perform well at open still.
Another easy qualifier off the top of my head is the Norcal one, where you usually only have to worry about one or two teams.
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Post by volleyball949 on May 5, 2014 20:47:40 GMT -5
I know that in the 17s division Pace and Coastal represent the east coast well
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Post by Not Me on May 5, 2014 21:55:30 GMT -5
Part of the reason it is easier is that some of the east coast teams can't participate. All the Pennsylvania teams are in their high school season.
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Post by rightcoast on May 10, 2014 7:20:41 GMT -5
Part of the reason it is easier is that some of the east coast teams can't participate. All the Pennsylvania teams are in their high school season. THANK YOU!!!! Also look at the number of teams coming from Virginia. No offense to VA but when 1/4 of the participants are from Virginia and you only have to finish in to top 30% to get a bid??? Virginia is not THAT strong. I like the way SoCal does it, one big tournament at the end of the year for all the bids. More clubs will come from around the country and the east coast will represent themselves better.
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vb01
Sophomore
Posts: 132
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Post by vb01 on May 10, 2014 7:51:53 GMT -5
Part of the reason it is easier is that some of the east coast teams can't participate. All the Pennsylvania teams are in their high school season. THANK YOU!!!! Also look at the number of teams coming from Virginia. No offense to VA but when 1/4 of the participants are from Virginia and you only have to finish in to top 30% to get a bid??? Virginia is not THAT strong. I like the way SoCal does it, one big tournament at the end of the year for all the bids. More clubs will come from around the country and the east coast will represent themselves better. I have a different theory... the top teams (Pace, Coastal, sometimes LIVBC) typically send their #1 teams to West coast or Midwest qualifiers (read: Boys Bid Events ha). Because of the lack of depth on the East coast, when events like the East Coast Championships come up, the top teams already have bids which they rightfully earned prior, thus giving a lot of trickle down to much weaker teams... teams that wouldn't win against a Midwest/West coast 2's team (correct me if I'm wrong but LIVBC 16-2s finished 23rd in St Louis, yet they'll be in bid contention come end of this month due to lack of depth).
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Post by eastcoastball on May 11, 2014 8:34:40 GMT -5
Once again, if you think these teams are "stealing" bids from some west coast teams, they can travel to the east coast at any point in the year if they want a bid.
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