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Post by Wolfgang on Oct 22, 2014 13:31:06 GMT -5
Before the poster on page 2 posted the link, I was thinking of someone else: Lydia Bai.
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Post by gigibear on Oct 22, 2014 14:04:19 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so caught up in the NAME of the school. In the real world, the school you are associated with matters only for the first 10 minutes. After that, it's all on you to perform and deliver. I've met many dumbasses from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, etc. The smartest guy I ever met graduated from the University of New Orleans. The next smartest guy was from Iowa State University. Does anyone care what school Steven Spielberg (Long Beach State) graduated from? Or Stevie Nicks (San Jose State), Dan Rather (Sam Houston State), Barack Obama (Occidental/Columbia), Magic Johnson (Michigan State), Dan Marino (Pittsburgh), Michael Phelps (none)? Also, having attended a NAME school doesn't necessarily mean you got a great education. I went to a name school and took a handful of classes taught by Nobel Prize winners. They were all horrible teachers. To this day, I can't remember anything memorable about those classes or those professors. The best class I ever took was a Numerical Methods class taught by a grad student who had a Thor-like flowing blonde hair, Grizzly Adams-style beard, and who wore faded jeans all the time. I know there are people out there who care about the NAME of the school. They wear their alma mater on their t-shirt or hat and proudly advertise same with bumper stickers on their BMWs. They've even got school mugs on their desks. I've met many of these types. And then there are people who wear t-shirts or sweatshirts of schools they have no affiliation with. This latter group is very puzzling. I generally feel sorry for them. Tell that to the next law firm you apply to. The name DOES matter.... and it's not what you remember but how you think....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 14:20:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so caught up in the NAME of the school. In the real world, the school you are associated with matters only for the first 10 minutes. After that, it's all on you to perform and deliver. I've met many dumbasses from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, etc. The smartest guy I ever met graduated from the University of New Orleans. The next smartest guy was from Iowa State University. Does anyone care what school Steven Spielberg (Long Beach State) graduated from? Or Stevie Nicks (San Jose State), Dan Rather (Sam Houston State), Barack Obama (Occidental/Columbia), Magic Johnson (Michigan State), Dan Marino (Pittsburgh), Michael Phelps (none)? Also, having attended a NAME school doesn't necessarily mean you got a great education. I went to a name school and took a handful of classes taught by Nobel Prize winners. They were all horrible teachers. To this day, I can't remember anything memorable about those classes or those professors. The best class I ever took was a Numerical Methods class taught by a grad student who had a Thor-like flowing blonde hair, Grizzly Adams-style beard, and who wore faded jeans all the time. I know there are people out there who care about the NAME of the school. They wear their alma mater on their t-shirt or hat and proudly advertise same with bumper stickers on their BMWs. They've even got school mugs on their desks. I've met many of these types. And then there are people who wear t-shirts or sweatshirts of schools they have no affiliation with. This latter group is very puzzling. I generally feel sorry for them. True, you can get a great education anywhere. But being a graduate of a name school opens doors after graduation that many schools never can. The bigger the name, the bigger the doors. That's not true. In Peoria--who gets the job, an Illinois State grad or Mr. Harvard? In Oklahoma--the woman from OU or OSU is getting it over Mr. Columbia. Out east--sure, Harvard carries a ton of weight. Someone else mentioned law schools--that big law school degree isn't necessarily a help. What does someone at George Washington know about local case law in Iowa? Unless you are wanting to work at a big corporation, you're better off getting a degree from a local law school--where the classes are taught by locals, know local/state law, and have the appropriate connections.
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Post by elevationvb on Oct 22, 2014 14:52:46 GMT -5
Before the poster on page 2 posted the link, I was thinking of someone else: Lydia Bai. As all know here, the right fit is important to all players including the top players. The top schools will continue to have their pick of the star high school players and some of them will sit on the bench and be a reserve player or transfer.
A good example is Texas' player Prieto. She wanted to play at Texas but could not resist the urge to play for Penn State. Watching her play at Texas, I can see why she was not a correct fit for Penn State. She's still making adjustments at Texas but looks to be a top player the next 2 seasons. Good for her.
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Post by leftcoaster71 on Oct 22, 2014 15:49:46 GMT -5
Has a stanford womens vball player ever transfered to another school? I've never heard of it. I believe only one. Colleen Miniuk in '93. She transferred to Michigan after her freshman year and played a year or two there.
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Post by chancelucky on Oct 22, 2014 16:37:14 GMT -5
If it's okay to still talk about the "bench" thing instead of the value of degrees from various institutions, I'd mention that there are coaches who handle the matter well and there are coaches who very clearly don't. It's not just about how the player handles not playing.
I've seen situations where the coach didn't play everyone, but still found ways to make every member of the team feel valued and appreciated. They have clear expectations about what a player needs to do to improve or possibly get time on the court, at least pay lip service to the role the bench has in making the starters better, and recognize ways players contribute without necessarily being on the court. I think they're also very clear about why one player is playing and why someone is not. Coaches who do this tend to be pretty successful and I think the players as a group tend to get it.
I'm also aware of situations where the coach can't explain to the players why particular players are playing, treats those who aren't playing as second-class citizens, and never pays attention to how hard any of the non-starters are working. In those situations, it's very hard for the players on the bench to take anything positive from the experience.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Oct 22, 2014 17:26:25 GMT -5
True, you can get a great education anywhere. But being a graduate of a name school opens doors after graduation that many schools never can. The bigger the name, the bigger the doors. That's not true. In Peoria--who gets the job, an Illinois State grad or Mr. Harvard? In Oklahoma--the woman from OU or OSU is getting it over Mr. Columbia. Out east--sure, Harvard carries a ton of weight. Someone else mentioned law schools--that big law school degree isn't necessarily a help. What does someone at George Washington know about local case law in Iowa? Unless you are wanting to work at a big corporation, you're better off getting a degree from a local law school--where the classes are taught by locals, know local/state law, and have the appropriate connections. Yes, but are those big doors in Peoria? Probably not, at least not as big as the doors an MIT grad looking for a job in Silicon Valley is going to have more access to, or the PolySci grad from Penn wanting to work with a senator in D.C.
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Post by vballgrl on Oct 22, 2014 18:50:57 GMT -5
She's getting a STANFORD education for free and daddy is mad about playing time. The world we live in is really messed up..... Not intended to be a secret. Identity or getting into any specific personal aspect wasn't the intent of the post. Simply felt there was something to be added from the experience. Seemed to fit the thread. Hope it was helpful, but don't have any desire to discuss my daughter's situation. She is happy as a lark and volleyball was never in her career goals. But if it helps her be a great doctor, bang...success. She, and I, have learned tons about life. Life long learner...or hard headed, not sure which but I think we will both be learning for a long time to come. : ) Congrats on raising a superstar kid that will be so tremendously successful in life! Parents often talk about the 'character building' benefits of sports then complain about the lack of play time. I appreciate this thread and the various shared stories. It's hard to be the athlete that doesn't play much...but the work ethic it can develop is invaluable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 21:12:21 GMT -5
That's not true. In Peoria--who gets the job, an Illinois State grad or Mr. Harvard? In Oklahoma--the woman from OU or OSU is getting it over Mr. Columbia. Out east--sure, Harvard carries a ton of weight. Someone else mentioned law schools--that big law school degree isn't necessarily a help. What does someone at George Washington know about local case law in Iowa? Unless you are wanting to work at a big corporation, you're better off getting a degree from a local law school--where the classes are taught by locals, know local/state law, and have the appropriate connections. Yes, but are those big doors in Peoria? Probably not, at least not as big as the doors an MIT grad looking for a job in Silicon Valley is going to have more access to, or the PolySci grad from Penn wanting to work with a senator in D.C. Depends what you are doing, since you've got a D-1 university, international HQ of a major agricultural company, too. You're within easy commute distance of John Deere's HQ as well as State Farm's, so yeah, actually--there are great opportunities. And the same can be said for places like Dallas, Tulsa, Omaha, or wherever...
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Post by bighitter on Oct 23, 2014 1:22:45 GMT -5
lovethis, you're a complete jerk!!! Showmevb, thank you for sharing, one of the best post I've read in a long time.
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Post by gobruins on Oct 23, 2014 5:27:14 GMT -5
It seems to me, that in general, the players handle sitting on the bench, a lot better than the parents do. Maybe that is because the players are still very involved every day in practice and the off-court stuff, while parents only see the matches.
I admire Showmevb for coming around to seeing things through his daughter's eyes.
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Post by labtec1 on Oct 23, 2014 9:22:56 GMT -5
This is an excellent thread. Hats off to showmevb. I do believe parents struggle more with playing time. Don't get me wrong, kids want to play and contribute, and I think most kids have a hard time adjusting their freshman year, realizing everyone is good. For some, it is the first time since they started playing that they are sitting on a bench. The fact that you played all 4 years on varsity in HS, or played for all elite club teams becomes obsolete. It also depends on your position. You may get more opportunities to play as a hitter (more needed on the floor), but if you are the setter, running a 5-1, you only need one setter on the court, and in most cases (not all), it is usually an upper classman who has been in the system with valuable experience. I think the hardest part for most parents, at least for me, is seeing some of the comments on VT about your kid and the assumptions made. "She did not get much playing time freshman year....something must have happened to her." It amazes me how some people who do not know your kid or the circumstances can weigh in as though they are their shadow. The other thing which isn't so easy is recruiting. People say choose wisely. That is true, but when you are recruited at 14/15 years old, how do you know how things will turn out? You don't even know what other players are coming, so choosing a school based on whether you can play is not something you can always do. Nothing is guaranteed. Non-official visits and official visits are nice, but everyone has their love goggles on and one cannot see how it really is with teammates and how coaches act to players. My 2 cents worth is choosing a good school with an overall great college experience, great academics, etc. I have known kids who committed early and coaches changed their minds leaving kids hanging, and I have also seen kids commit because of a coach, where the coach ends up leaving by the time the recruit gets there. So much is involved in every situation, so to make blanket statements about choices or situations/players is so out of line. I realized long ago volleyball is not always fair. Just because your kid isn't the full-time starter every year doesn't mean she is not talented or has not contributed to the team. My kid (youngest) is a senior now, played D1, not a ton of playing time, but I can honestly say that she is ready to tackle life and is better equipped to handle it.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 23, 2014 13:04:17 GMT -5
That's a very interesting perspective, going from fighting to get off the bench to being a head coach. I have always thought that the most gifted athletes do not generally make great coaches, because being good came naturally to them, and they didn't put a lot of mental effort into figuring out how to do something better. The players who rode the bench, took more lessons, studied the game, understood the mechanics in order to get better, and were really persistent in their fight to get better, generally end up being able to show and talk other players into doing the same. There has always been a belief that the best coaches comes from the bench. In baseball, it has been the bullpen catcher or the utility infielder because they spend their time in the dugouts learning and thinking the game. In Basketball, MJ has steadfastly refused to coach a team because he couldn't parlay what was intuitive to him to others. Larry Bird quit coaching as soon as he was able. Magic Johnson was an abysmal head coach. Phil Jackson was a bench guy. Eric Spoelstra was a video guy. Pop was a high school coach. In football, Belichick was a coach's son, someone who sat the bench a lot, observing. Marc Trestman couldn't stick at University of Minnesota nor with the Vikings. I wouldn't say Magic was an abysmal coach. He coached about a dozen games, hardly enough to characterize he as an abysmal coach - maybe that was an abysmal experiment for him , and he had the smarts to see he wasn't ready or it wasn't what he wanted to pursue.
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Post by Wolfgang on Oct 23, 2014 13:32:34 GMT -5
Re. Magic Johnson, I think coaching in high school, college, and the pros are all different beasts. To the best of my knowledge, Magic only coached in the NBA.
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Post by kvball18 on Oct 23, 2014 13:42:15 GMT -5
Lots of wisdom here. The original article mentioned specifically spending time on the bench to build character. My DD never sat on the bench, but had her character and perseverance built through the school of hard knocks anyway. She found a passion for volleyball in 6th grade, but at a skinny 4'11", had the "misfortune" of being about the last girl on the planet to hit puberty. Being very athletic but tiny, she had to play for lower level teams, where her teammates didn't share her drive and passion, which was incredibly frustrating. She played for coaches who saw her athletic ability and didn't ever take her off the court, despite her size. She gave 100% in every practice and game, but was desperate to keep improving and play with the "big girls" who had the same passion for the game...and against the top competition. She practiced countless hours on her own, and took a lot of private lessons...always her idea, not ours. By 8th grade, when the top setters begin to rise to the top of the class, she was still only 5'3" and 90 lbs, and couldn't get noticed in any open gym or crowded tryout for a top team. She knew she loved setting and didn't want to get picked as a libero, so she would compete against 20-30 larger, physically mature, setters in the tryouts and leave dejected. There were a lot of years of huge disappointments, but she plugged away at what she loved. She started growing at the end of 8th grade and actually grew 8 inches in high school. By sophomore year, some good coaches noticed her and recruited her for their club teams. She chose to keep playing for the best team/coach that knew her athleticism and work ethic and really wanted to play her and help her improve. Someone else mentioned that you get better in practice, not in tournaments, but I think there is a huge benefit from competing against the top players in the country...especially as a setter. She suffered a devastating injury at the beginning of her sophomore club season, but displayed incredible effort and drive to return in half the predicted time, because she was the only setter for her team, and she knew they needed her back. Despite never warming the bench, being the perpetual underdog for so many years gave her an enormous drive to keep improving and be able to compete with the top players in her class. She looked shy and quiet on the outside, but was fiercely competitive and driven inside. As a muscular 5'11 senior, she and the other setter on her HS team were known as one of the best setter/hitter tandems in the country. She was named POY in a very competitive league, and a lot of people wondered where in the world she had come from. She is having a lot of success as a D1 freshman setter in a 5-1 system, but approached her transition to college with the same drive and work ethic. Before she signed her NLI, we spent a couple of years challenging her to make sure she was happy with her college choice, her coaches (they were a huge factor), the school size/academics/location, and would be happy staying there even if everything in volleyball came crumbling down. She gave it a lot of thought...as a very high academic student, she had many other options...but she is very happy where she is, and, even though she hasn't ridden the bench (yet), her many years as the underdog have made her a fighter who gives 100% in everything.
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