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Post by guest2 on Jul 30, 2015 1:32:28 GMT -5
Fopma/Hochevar received a wild card? Honestly, that's embarrassing. Not to mention a little puzzling, since Lane Carico is one of the few beach players sponsored by ASICS. I doubt USAV had anything to do with it, gotta be Leonard...for whatever reason. Also noticed that lurking in the bottom of the qualie is Chen Xue, who hasn't played since April. Why is that embarassing? Is there another team out there that has proven they are much better?
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Post by guest2 on Jul 30, 2015 1:40:10 GMT -5
Because they havent done anything to earn it? They beat one non-qualifier team last week and got spanked by the 20 seed. Jen finished 4th (admittedly with April) Im not saying Fopma/Hochevar are an automatic pick over Lane/Summer, but I dont think Lane/Summer deserve it more To be fair, I think Carico/Summer won two matches in the main draw, not one. Like Klazk, I guess I'm somewhat surprised. Either you use a wild card because you think a particular team will draw fans (and I don't think Fopma/Hochevar is a bigger draw than Carico/Ross) or you should go by the points, which I believe favors Carico/Ross. I'm interested in who makes the decision. The second team they beat in the MD was also a qualifier team. Isnt the point of a wildcard that you dont have to go by points. Of the four women, Jen is the best player. Neither Lane nor Summer has done much this year (and Summer was playing with Jen so its not like Jen did either) and Britney has done less, but Lane and Britney's results are basically the same but Lane has one more 9th.
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Post by crawdaddy on Jul 30, 2015 10:46:12 GMT -5
To be fair, I think Carico/Summer won two matches in the main draw, not one. Like Klazk, I guess I'm somewhat surprised. Either you use a wild card because you think a particular team will draw fans (and I don't think Fopma/Hochevar is a bigger draw than Carico/Ross) or you should go by the points, which I believe favors Carico/Ross. I'm interested in who makes the decision. The second team they beat in the MD was also a qualifier team. Isnt the point of a wildcard that you dont have to go by points. Of the four women, Jen is the best player. Neither Lane nor Summer has done much this year (and Summer was playing with Jen so its not like Jen did either) and Britney has done less, but Lane and Britney's results are basically the same but Lane has one more 9th. My point is that unless there is a sponsor-driven reason to pick a team, it is typical to default to who has more points. No-brainer that Leonard (or whoever is making the decision) would pick Phil over Rosie for the WC since Phil is a bigger star. But in these two teams I don't see the sponsor-motivation. I guess the fact that Hochevar went to LBSU might have played into decision. Still, I'll be curious to see what Geddy reports back. Off to play in the mid-week, watered-down MB six-man!!
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Jul 30, 2015 11:27:12 GMT -5
To be fair, I think Carico/Summer won two matches in the main draw, not one. Like Klazk, I guess I'm somewhat surprised. Either you use a wild card because you think a particular team will draw fans (and I don't think Fopma/Hochevar is a bigger draw than Carico/Ross) or you should go by the points, which I believe favors Carico/Ross. I'm interested in who makes the decision. The second team they beat in the MD was also a qualifier team. Isnt the point of a wildcard that you dont have to go by points. Of the four women, Jen is the best player. Neither Lane nor Summer has done much this year (and Summer was playing with Jen so its not like Jen did either) and Britney has done less, but Lane and Britney's results are basically the same but Lane has one more 9th. The 2nd team they beat in the main draw wasn't a qualifier, it's a good Spanish team who in this case were the 12 seed. It's embarrassing because giving Fopma/Hochevar a wild card does nothing for USA volleyball or the WSOVB. What does it accomplish to give a WC to a team that has been together for five minutes, have no upside, and do nothing for the marketability of the event (Hochevar has a local connection, having gone to LBSU, but that was a long time ago)? From an FIVB tour perspective, Fopma and especially Hochevar are just clogging up the system. So why not use the WC for a team that actually has a future, like Ross/Carico. Makes for a better story, too - local young guns trying to make an Olympic run etc. Or even Claes/Hughes - gives them international experience at the senior level, and is also a good storyline: local whiz kids and collegiate champs take on the best in the world, that sort of thing. Wild cards are gold, and it just seems like this one was wasted for no good reason.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 30, 2015 11:40:50 GMT -5
The second team they beat in the MD was also a qualifier team. Isnt the point of a wildcard that you dont have to go by points. Of the four women, Jen is the best player. Neither Lane nor Summer has done much this year (and Summer was playing with Jen so its not like Jen did either) and Britney has done less, but Lane and Britney's results are basically the same but Lane has one more 9th. The 2nd team they beat in the main draw wasn't a qualifier, it's a good Spanish team who in this case were the 12 seed. It's embarrassing because giving Fopma/Hochevar a wild card does nothing for USA volleyball or the WSOVB. What does it accomplish to give a WC to a team that has been together for five minutes, have no upside, and do nothing for the marketability of the event (Hochevar has a local connection, having gone to LBSU, but that was a long time ago)? From an FIVB tour perspective, Fopma and especially Hochevar are just clogging up the system. So why not use the WC for a team that actually has a future, like Ross/Carico. Makes for a better story, too - local young guns trying to make an Olympic run etc. Or even Claes/Hughes - gives them international experience at the senior level, and is also a good storyline: local whiz kids and collegiate champs take on the best in the world, that sort of thing. Wild cards are gold, and it just seems like this one was wasted for no good reason. I'm liking my theory that Fopma got it for playing w/ April short term, more and more.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 30, 2015 11:46:24 GMT -5
The second team they beat in the MD was also a qualifier team. Isnt the point of a wildcard that you dont have to go by points. Of the four women, Jen is the best player. Neither Lane nor Summer has done much this year (and Summer was playing with Jen so its not like Jen did either) and Britney has done less, but Lane and Britney's results are basically the same but Lane has one more 9th. The 2nd team they beat in the main draw wasn't a qualifier, it's a good Spanish team who in this case were the 12 seed. It's embarrassing because giving Fopma/Hochevar a wild card does nothing for USA volleyball or the WSOVB. What does it accomplish to give a WC to a team that has been together for five minutes, have no upside, and do nothing for the marketability of the event (Hochevar has a local connection, having gone to LBSU, but that was a long time ago)? From an FIVB tour perspective, Fopma and especially Hochevar are just clogging up the system. So why not use the WC for a team that actually has a future, like Ross/Carico. Makes for a better story, too - local young guns trying to make an Olympic run etc. Or even Claes/Hughes - gives them international experience at the senior level, and is also a good storyline: local whiz kids and collegiate champs take on the best in the world, that sort of thing. Wild cards are gold, and it just seems like this one was wasted for no good reason. The Spaniards were the first team they beat in the MD, the second was the Greeks, who qualified. Those are all reasonable points about Summer/Carico and if the issue was Claes/Hughes not getting the WC, I would go along with the idea that it should go to the future. I also think Summer/Lane would have been fine, as I think Jen/Britt are. Not much difference in those two teams, although if I had to bet, I would probably take the vets. But in terms of fairness, Summer has been a full time pro for three years now. She may eventually be good, but right now she isn't and it seems like everyone else has figured her out. I know she had family issues last year, but in a bunch of events this year she hasnt been good either. You know more about this than me, but in what areas does improvement seem possible. Like watching Claes for example, you can see how good she can be when she adds some strength, which she doesnt have now, and works out some issues passing pro jump serves, and that team (Claes/Hughes) also seemed to need some better strategy. But with those two you see how they go from A to B. How does Summer go from where she is to a top FIVB player? I don't see it.
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Post by klazk on Jul 30, 2015 11:50:05 GMT -5
But in terms of fairness, Wildcards are inherently unfair, so that really shouldn't be part of the discussion IMHO.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Jul 30, 2015 15:42:14 GMT -5
The 2nd team they beat in the main draw wasn't a qualifier, it's a good Spanish team who in this case were the 12 seed. It's embarrassing because giving Fopma/Hochevar a wild card does nothing for USA volleyball or the WSOVB. What does it accomplish to give a WC to a team that has been together for five minutes, have no upside, and do nothing for the marketability of the event (Hochevar has a local connection, having gone to LBSU, but that was a long time ago)? From an FIVB tour perspective, Fopma and especially Hochevar are just clogging up the system. So why not use the WC for a team that actually has a future, like Ross/Carico. Makes for a better story, too - local young guns trying to make an Olympic run etc. Or even Claes/Hughes - gives them international experience at the senior level, and is also a good storyline: local whiz kids and collegiate champs take on the best in the world, that sort of thing. Wild cards are gold, and it just seems like this one was wasted for no good reason. The Spaniards were the first team they beat in the MD, the second was the Greeks, who qualified. Those are all reasonable points about Summer/Carico and if the issue was Claes/Hughes not getting the WC, I would go along with the idea that it should go to the future. I also think Summer/Lane would have been fine, as I think Jen/Britt are. Not much difference in those two teams, although if I had to bet, I would probably take the vets. But in terms of fairness, Summer has been a full time pro for three years now. She may eventually be good, but right now she isn't and it seems like everyone else has figured her out. I know she had family issues last year, but in a bunch of events this year she hasnt been good either. You know more about this than me, but in what areas does improvement seem possible. Like watching Claes for example, you can see how good she can be when she adds some strength, which she doesnt have now, and works out some issues passing pro jump serves, and that team (Claes/Hughes) also seemed to need some better strategy. But with those two you see how they go from A to B. How does Summer go from where she is to a top FIVB player? I don't see it. I'm more bullish on Summer. She's won on the AVP, has multiple top five finishes on the World Tour (including 2015), and is still just 22 years old. She's years away from reaching her physical peak. She's a very gifted player who will continue to get better. She's still the future of USA volleyball, IMO, along Sara Hughes, Kelly Claes, Lane, and a handful of others - and personally I would really like to see resources (including wild cards) invested in the future rather than the past. Of course, it's not like I have any say in it.
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Post by unrated on Jul 30, 2015 17:27:25 GMT -5
No, no, Geddy... this is good. This is almost GLRM levels of opinion. Let the mild dislike flow through you...
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Post by donnyb on Jul 30, 2015 19:44:25 GMT -5
I think the problem with summer is the eye test. We see her all mopy and slow and we think she's not very good. It's hard to argue for a 22 year old she had some decent success.
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 3, 2015 11:46:57 GMT -5
Okay, here's my totally unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on all this. Kerri is signed up so they can market her for the tournament, but solid chance she won't be able to go. If she pulls out, then Fopma can play with Ross and Misty takes Fopma's spot with Hochevar, allowing Leonard to do promotion around her.
That actually makes more sense to me than giving a spot to Fopma/Hochevar over Summer/Carico.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 3, 2015 12:54:38 GMT -5
Okay, here's my totally unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on all this. Kerri is signed up so they can market her for the tournament, but solid chance she won't be able to go. If she pulls out, then Fopma can play with Ross and Misty takes Fopma's spot with Hochevar, allowing Leonard to do promotion around her. That actually makes more sense to me than giving a spot to Fopma/Hochevar over Summer/Carico. while a decent theory, I would think Misty would be realistic about her game and wouldn't want to get embarrassed in her home town.
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Post by crawdaddy on Aug 3, 2015 12:59:59 GMT -5
Okay, here's my totally unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on all this. Kerri is signed up so they can market her for the tournament, but solid chance she won't be able to go. If she pulls out, then Fopma can play with Ross and Misty takes Fopma's spot with Hochevar, allowing Leonard to do promotion around her. That actually makes more sense to me than giving a spot to Fopma/Hochevar over Summer/Carico. while a decent theory, I would think Misty would be realistic about her game and wouldn't want to get embarrassed in her home town. Which is why she's headed to Seattle this weekend to sharpen her game.
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 3, 2015 13:14:30 GMT -5
Never thought of Misty in L.B., wow, that would be fun to watch. We're certainly seeing the "wake" of the '10 AVP demise and low payroll in domestic VB with the lack of depth and youth at the pro level...NCAA women's should do something, maybe a "Woman's Tour" to follow the NCAA may take over the normal men/women events...who knows...I think the men do draw more, in general (I have no idea), so probably not...I'm SUPER bullish on Summer Ross. Just because someone doesn't have the "classic look" of aggression in the sand should not camouflage what she can do. She'll make her mark sooner than later, so BE PREPARED to "sautee your crow" if you go short on Summer...REAL DEAL, period!
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Post by guest2 on Aug 3, 2015 14:12:53 GMT -5
Okay, here's my totally unsubstantiated conspiracy theory on all this. Kerri is signed up so they can market her for the tournament, but solid chance she won't be able to go. If she pulls out, then Fopma can play with Ross and Misty takes Fopma's spot with Hochevar, allowing Leonard to do promotion around her. That actually makes more sense to me than giving a spot to Fopma/Hochevar over Summer/Carico. Why not just give Misty/Brit the wildcard? That would be as automatic a choice as you could think of
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