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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 6:37:18 GMT -5
I watched some of the match last night and I actually think Phil made quite a few mistakes. One play he didn't side out 2 times in a row. And I think Phil answer nick didn't play that we'll. You also say Bruno and Alison didn't play well but was that because they played a team was great and made them look bad? Which you can say the same thing for Phil and nick. I think it was 2 great teams battling it out. Both teams dug some really good ball etc This is a fair point. It certainly could have just been Bruno and Allison making Nick look bad, they are the first team in a long time to get 4 in a season, much less in a row, but I think history suggests that this is just who Nick is. Very curious to see this week though. I'd be surprised if they didnt get top 5 this week (meaning Phil and Nick) Id also be surprised if Phil doesnt start looking to go on two a lot more often. I thought he played a great match in Long Beach but his refusal to do that except on a few points cost them
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Post by klazk on Aug 26, 2015 6:57:26 GMT -5
It certainly could have just been Bruno and Allison making Nick look bad, they are the first team in a long time to get 4 in a season, much less in a row If we are only talking men: 2011 FIVB - Emanuel/Allison 5, Dalhausser/Rogers 4 2010 FIVB - Dalhausser/Rogers 4 in a row
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 26, 2015 7:02:26 GMT -5
I watched some of the match last night and I actually think Phil made quite a few mistakes. One play he didn't side out 2 times in a row. And I think Phil answer nick didn't play that we'll. You also say Bruno and Alison didn't play well but was that because they played a team was great and made them look bad? Which you can say the same thing for Phil and nick. I think it was 2 great teams battling it out. Both teams dug some really good ball etc This is a fair point. It certainly could have just been Bruno and Allison making Nick look bad, they are the first team in a long time to get 4 in a season, much less in a row, but I think history suggests that this is just who Nick is. Very curious to see this week though. I'd be surprised if they didnt get top 5 this week (meaning Phil and Nick) Id also be surprised if Phil doesnt start looking to go on two a lot more often. I thought he played a great match in Long Beach but his refusal to do that except on a few points cost them So, I watched the 1st set last night. That was brutal all around. If you look at Nicks numbers without the context of how tough the ball control was, it was horrible. It should have been better, but to me, he maybe only had 5 truly "should have but the ball away chances". He kind of got eaten up on the serves and Phil had a hard time making up for the passes. I remember Furbs kind of having a run of bad finals. Let's see if a pattern develops, I think Nick (and Phil) will learn from being in these situations more.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 9:01:57 GMT -5
Hope so. I was wondering if maybe Nick just needed to swing away more. Sacrifice getting blocked a couple times a game for more side outs.
One thing that really benefits a team with a defender/blocker that good is he doesnt hit out a lot, so they always get a second chance. Phil/Nick defending a transition opportunity is a pretty good bet.
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Post by volleyballer4life on Aug 26, 2015 9:54:40 GMT -5
Statistics have their place, but anyone that's watched the last 3 years can see something that isn't going to show up on paper: It has been SO aggravating to see a lackluster Phil from 2012 to now, and for whatever reason he's been rejuvenated in these last three tournaments with Nick, taking two 2nd's and a 1st even though they have a LOT of room for improvement. The fact that they were even that close to winning the tournament with how inconsistent they were setting each other is pretty remarkable, and I'd like to think they can figure that out with more time together.
We can say speculate on what we feel is best for Phil, but chemistry is important and if Nick can put the Beast back in the Beijing Beast, I'm all for it. I was excited as anyone when Phil/Rosie first partnered up, and while they had some success, I felt like they beat themselves more than they were defeated more often than not. I'm just happy to see that fire in Phil again, and with just a couple adjustments they could indeed become the team to beat.
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Post by haze on Aug 26, 2015 11:59:16 GMT -5
Let's hope rejuvenated Phil sticks around. He faded towards the end of his partnership with Rogers, was rejuvenated with Rosie (I believe they won one of their first tournaments together) and faded, and now he's rejuvenated with Nick. I've always wondered if Phil's mental side of his commitment to staying in top form was a weakness, let's see if he can stay with it this time.
If the knocks on Nick being able to win Championships on world stage is legitimate, does Phil get frustrated with getting to that point and not getting much help from Lucena in those moments?
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Post by gk on Aug 26, 2015 12:11:03 GMT -5
I think part of it is injuries. He was fighting injuries in a lot of the times he was "down", but afaik is healthy right now after his last break. While mental may be part of it, I think health is a big thing with him.
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 26, 2015 14:38:14 GMT -5
Fine here are some numbers: Nick is 35 years old. No other player that old in the top 15 has failed to win a tournament. All of the players older than him, with the exception of Hyden, have won at least 5 FIVBs (Gibb, Phil, Rego, Santos, Reindeer) In 11 years on the AVP, Nick is averaging .45 wins per year. His career high for AVP wins in a year is 1 His career high for FIVB finals in a year is 1 Which number is higher, the number of finals Nick has made, or the number of players currently on tour who are: 1) Ten years or more younger than Nick and 2) Have already won a tournament? Nick is a great competitor and the second best East Coast player ever (Sorry BJ and Richmond) but he is 35 years old and there is nothing in his history (or the final last week) to suggest he is an elite player at the world level. Take any top 10 team, replace the defender with Nick and ask yourself, is that team better now? The answer is going to be no. You're right... Nick hasn't won that many tournaments. I wonder how many times he finished 2nd or was knocked out of a tournament by Phil? I believe he lost at least a couple of FIVB finals to Phil and many AVP tournies. He had podium finishes on FIVB with Furby and Brunner...have they ever made it that far with anyone else? Time will tell, but right now he and Phil have made 3 straight finals. Brunner/Rosenthal finished 5th and 7th in a weak AVP field and 17th on the FIVB. Do you think Phil should have stayed with Sean?
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 14:55:05 GMT -5
Fine here are some numbers: Nick is 35 years old. No other player that old in the top 15 has failed to win a tournament. All of the players older than him, with the exception of Hyden, have won at least 5 FIVBs (Gibb, Phil, Rego, Santos, Reindeer) In 11 years on the AVP, Nick is averaging .45 wins per year. His career high for AVP wins in a year is 1 His career high for FIVB finals in a year is 1 Which number is higher, the number of finals Nick has made, or the number of players currently on tour who are: 1) Ten years or more younger than Nick and 2) Have already won a tournament? Nick is a great competitor and the second best East Coast player ever (Sorry BJ and Richmond) but he is 35 years old and there is nothing in his history (or the final last week) to suggest he is an elite player at the world level. Take any top 10 team, replace the defender with Nick and ask yourself, is that team better now? The answer is going to be no. You're right... Nick hasn't won that many tournaments. I wonder how many times he finished 2nd or was knocked out of a tournament by Phil? I believe he lost at least a couple of FIVB finals to Phil and many AVP tournies. He had podium finishes on FIVB with Furby and Brunner...have they ever made it that far with anyone else? Time will tell, but right now he and Phil have made 3 straight finals. Brunner/Rosenthal finished 5th and 7th in a weak AVP field and 17th on the FIVB. Do you think Phil should have stayed with Sean? Sure both guys have. Brunner finished third last year with Todd (equaling his best Nick finish) and Fuerby finished second with Casey Jennings (equaling his best Nick finish) I don't know if Phil should have stayed with Sean. The last two years, they have been the best team on the FIVB. That gets lost because when they lost they so often went out like little b+++es. I think Phil will enjoy playing with Nick more, but plenty of guys who have been a pain in the A to play with have been great players. (Stoklos and Karch for example). Phil/Sean have a much higher ceiling than Phil/Nick. When Sean/Phil played well they beat everyone. With Nick/Phil at the top of their game, they are still very beatable. Not sure Sean has it in him anymore though (but its not like Phil gave him a chance this year)
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 26, 2015 15:05:13 GMT -5
You're right... Nick hasn't won that many tournaments. I wonder how many times he finished 2nd or was knocked out of a tournament by Phil? I believe he lost at least a couple of FIVB finals to Phil and many AVP tournies. He had podium finishes on FIVB with Furby and Brunner...have they ever made it that far with anyone else? Time will tell, but right now he and Phil have made 3 straight finals. Brunner/Rosenthal finished 5th and 7th in a weak AVP field and 17th on the FIVB. Do you think Phil should have stayed with Sean? Sure both guys have. Brunner finished third last year with Todd (equaling his best Nick finish) and Fuerby finished second with Casey Jennings (equaling his best Nick finish) I don't know if Phil should have stayed with Sean. The last two years, they have been the best team on the FIVB. That gets lost because when they lost they so often went out like little b+++es. I think Phil will enjoy playing with Nick more, but plenty of guys who have been a pain in the A to play with have been great players. (Stoklos and Karch for example). Phil/Sean have a much higher ceiling than Phil/Nick. When Sean/Phil played well they beat everyone. With Nick/Phil at the top of their game, they are still very beatable. Not sure Sean has it in him anymore though (but its not like Phil gave him a chance this year) 2015 Sean has not shown 1 ounce of being on Nick's level. Phil couldn't "drag" Sean to a win on the AVP, or higher than a 9th on the FIVB. Turns around and "drags" Nick to Finals, Finals, Finals with Nick.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 15:48:04 GMT -5
Sure both guys have. Brunner finished third last year with Todd (equaling his best Nick finish) and Fuerby finished second with Casey Jennings (equaling his best Nick finish) I don't know if Phil should have stayed with Sean. The last two years, they have been the best team on the FIVB. That gets lost because when they lost they so often went out like little b+++es. I think Phil will enjoy playing with Nick more, but plenty of guys who have been a pain in the A to play with have been great players. (Stoklos and Karch for example). Phil/Sean have a much higher ceiling than Phil/Nick. When Sean/Phil played well they beat everyone. With Nick/Phil at the top of their game, they are still very beatable. Not sure Sean has it in him anymore though (but its not like Phil gave him a chance this year) 2015 Sean has not shown 1 ounce of being on Nick's level. Phil couldn't "drag" Sean to a win on the AVP, or higher than a 9th on the FIVB. Turns around and "drags" Nick to Finals, Finals, Finals with Nick. Agreed. But Nick has never shown he can be as good as 2014 Sean either. I think the 25th was Phil getting hurt as well. Sean has not shown he wants to play this year and definitely seems to be going through the motions. Thats why I am not sure. Motivated Sean>Nick no question, but Nick always seems to come to play, which is why he may be a better partner right now.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 26, 2015 16:00:11 GMT -5
2015 Sean has not shown 1 ounce of being on Nick's level. Phil couldn't "drag" Sean to a win on the AVP, or higher than a 9th on the FIVB. Turns around and "drags" Nick to Finals, Finals, Finals with Nick. Agreed. But Nick has never shown he can be as good as 2014 Sean either. I think the 25th was Phil getting hurt as well. Sean has not shown he wants to play this year and definitely seems to be going through the motions. Thats why I am not sure. Motivated Sean>Nick no question, but Nick always seems to come to play, which is why he may be a better partner right now. This is the 1st time Nick has had the partner to contend for the #1 us team title. 3 tournaments in: 2-1 vs. Avatar/Mayer 2-0 vs. Tri/John 1-0 vs. Jake/casey 16-3 overall record.
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Post by larry on Aug 26, 2015 17:30:05 GMT -5
My 2 cents: The Phil Dalhausser-Sean Rosenthal partnership was going nowhere. The longer the played together, the worse they played. Perhaps it was because Phil just didn't want to play on the right side. In the short time they have been together, Phil and Nick Lucena have at least looked as if they have a fighting chance against the rest of the world. Folks, it was 15-13 in the third set against the red-hot world champs in the Long Beach final. I would much rather have Phil playing with a partner he seems to enjoy playing with.
The silver medal in Long Beach FIVB coming off the first for Phil and Nick in the Manhattan Beach AVP should be encouraging to American beach-volleyball fans. At least we have a dog in the hunt for Rio (assuming Phil and Nick can get enough Olympic-qualifying points).
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 18:30:57 GMT -5
My 2 cents: The Phil Dalhausser-Sean Rosenthal partnership was going nowhere. The longer the played together, the worse they played. Perhaps it was because Phil just didn't want to play on the right side. In the short time they have been together, Phil and Nick Lucena have at least looked as if they have a fighting chance against the rest of the world. Folks, it was 15-13 in the third set against the red-hot world champs in the Long Beach final. I would much rather have Phil playing with a partner he seems to enjoy playing with. The silver medal in Long Beach FIVB coming off the first for Phil and Nick in the Manhattan Beach AVP should be encouraging to American beach-volleyball fans. At least we have a dog in the hunt for Rio (assuming Phil and Nick can get enough Olympic-qualifying points). Thats probably right, but that four tournament run last year before Phil got hurt, 3 wins and a second (two point loss in game 3), is likely to be the best run any US team has for a long time
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Post by Wells on Aug 26, 2015 20:39:57 GMT -5
Agreed. But Nick has never shown he can be as good as 2014 Sean either. I think the 25th was Phil getting hurt as well. Sean has not shown he wants to play this year and definitely seems to be going through the motions. Thats why I am not sure. Motivated Sean>Nick no question, but Nick always seems to come to play, which is why he may be a better partner right now. This is the 1st time Nick has had the partner to contend for the #1 us team title. 3 tournaments in: 2-1 vs. Avatar/Mayer 2-0 vs. Tri/John 1-0 vs. Jake/casey 16-3 overall record.
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