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Post by gk on Aug 23, 2015 18:39:42 GMT -5
Nick has played some pretty good defense IMO. Just was really struggling hitting early on and his passing off the serve was bad I hate to be a contrarian and I think Nick has made some great digs but he has also failed to break on a lot of shots he could have come close to. Its amazing someone could play as well as Phil did and still lose. Hard to say when he lost 15-13 to the world no. 1 in the first FIVB together, but I think this tournament shows Phil made the wrong decision. Any other US defender, all the way down to Mayer and Phil wins this tournament. If he keeps playing like this, he and Nick will eventually win, but Nick played exactly the way he did in the Netherlands when he got to the top levels and the way he more or less always has. Great guy, intense competitor, can't hold his own at this level. I don't know if that's too contrarian. Phil played great, Nick was getting outplayed, but he did get some good digs and they were playing a great team. I've always been hoping to see Patterson/Phil. It sure would be nice to see Phil playing with a guy that can really put it away though. With the great sets from Phil since teams pretty much never serve him it seems to come down to his partner to really put shots away.
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Post by donnyb on Aug 23, 2015 18:45:33 GMT -5
I have seen Patterson completely get shut down also. So you think Phil and john Mayer would have won it? No shot! Nothing against john he's one of my favorites players(we're both left handed) lol but not shot. It's easy to say that he could have won with anyone but they did make he finals and lost in 3 15/13. You think they can only get better the more they play together? Even if it's a tad that could be the difference in getting the win here
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 23, 2015 18:52:01 GMT -5
Nick played great all weekend, up until the final. In the first game, his passing was really poor. Didn't like the back set offense with Nick hitting from the left...only worked 50% of the time. He played better in the next two games, but Phil didn't play that great either. Phil didn't block anything and had one awkward play he hit right into the net. It also looked like he called Nick off of the free ball deep that landed in. Then Phil serves Bruno at 12 to 14 and Bruno hits it out. Next point Phil serves Alison and he gets the kill. Not a very good match by Phil. That being said, one or two plays (mystery net call for example) go their way and Nick/Phil win.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 23, 2015 18:56:26 GMT -5
Nick has played some pretty good defense IMO. Just was really struggling hitting early on and his passing off the serve was bad I hate to be a contrarian and I think Nick has made some great digs but he has also failed to break on a lot of shots he could have come close to. Its amazing someone could play as well as Phil did and still lose. Hard to say when he lost 15-13 to the world no. 1 in the first FIVB together, but I think this tournament shows Phil made the wrong decision. Any other US defender, all the way down to Mayer and Phil wins this tournament. If he keeps playing like this, he and Nick will eventually win, but Nick played exactly the way he did in the Netherlands when he got to the top levels and the way he more or less always has. Great guy, intense competitor, can't hold his own at this level. dude, your hate is strong tonight.
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:01:15 GMT -5
The announcers repeatedly called Nick and Bruno the two best defender in the world...
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:21:39 GMT -5
I hate to be a contrarian and I think Nick has made some great digs but he has also failed to break on a lot of shots he could have come close to. Its amazing someone could play as well as Phil did and still lose. Hard to say when he lost 15-13 to the world no. 1 in the first FIVB together, but I think this tournament shows Phil made the wrong decision. Any other US defender, all the way down to Mayer and Phil wins this tournament. If he keeps playing like this, he and Nick will eventually win, but Nick played exactly the way he did in the Netherlands when he got to the top levels and the way he more or less always has. Great guy, intense competitor, can't hold his own at this level. dude, your hate is strong tonight. It isnt. I like Nick and ever since he and Phil started playing Toyotas, I have thought he was a good guy and a great competitor. Other than Dana and Adam, I root for all East Coast players. I root for him on both the AVP and FIVB, unless he is playing Hudson or the Bomgrens. But the jury is in. 72 career FIVB tournaments and no wins. Five finals and no wins. Did you ever see Todd fail to put the ball away on 5-8 straight good opportunities? Rosie? Any player with multiple FIVB wins? I've seen it happen to Nick several times. With Fuerby, with Hyden. Also when a player with ball control as good as Nick is spraying passes left and right, then thats a clue why he has made five finals and never won one. Add in domestic AVP finals and Nick is 5-22 in finals. In this match I thought Phil showed that when healthy he is the best big man on the FIVB. In fact he is so much better than the next guy that I believe he will win even with Nick, but Phil/Nick are a one, maybe two win per year team and I'd like to see Phil do better
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 23, 2015 19:21:54 GMT -5
Lucena is probably Phil's best option at the moment, I think. Maybe Patterson, but he can be inconsistent and isn't the defender Lucena is. Other than that? Rosie's game is predicated on his ridiculous athleticism, but IMO that's starting to fade bit by bit. Mayer is smaller/less physical than Nick. Hyden will be almost 44 at the Rio Games. Who else? Smaller Crabb has serious potential, but is he anywhere near ready to be thrown into Olympic qualifying? Burik has played ten years without getting any international experience and would have to pack up and immediately move to SoCal, something he's never shown any interest in doing. Todd? Not in a million years. Getting Tri to play behind a block? He's never done it, and this would be a lousy time to start learning. There just aren't all that many great options for Phil.
Barring injury, I think Phil is locked into Nick. And while Nick's play in the final alternated between terrible and sublime, they did end up with a 2nd in their first international tournament together, losing 15-13 in the 3rd to the #1 team in the world. And I don't believe Lucena is overmatched - he's now finished on an FIVB podium with four different partners. He's not a young Karch, he's not an in-his-prime Todd, but I think you can be successful on the World Tour with Nick playing behind a big block.
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:25:23 GMT -5
Great, logical, post Geddy. One or two plays by Nick or Phil and they upset the team the #1 team in the world. If Phil had served Bruno the last serve, who knows?
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:31:32 GMT -5
I have seen Patterson completely get shut down also. So you think Phil and john Mayer would have won it? No shot! Nothing against john he's one of my favorites players(we're both left handed) lol but not shot. It's easy to say that he could have won with anyone but they did make he finals and lost in 3 15/13. You think they can only get better the more they play together? Even if it's a tad that could be the difference in getting the win here Not to that degree. On serve receive, what percent of balls do you think Nick put away? Maybe 50%? If I had to guess I would say significantly less. I actually meant down to Mayer, meaning everyone above him, but in this case do I think he would have won with Mayer today? Probably. All Phil needed today was someone who could side out and pick up a few easy digs. (created by Phil's serving and blocking). Nick failed to do that. In terms of them getting better the more they play together, first I think historically that's not something that happens a ton with veterans. Second Nick is 35 years old and heavily dependent on quickness and jumping. They don't have a ton of time to improve. I think they are a top 5-7 team in the world, which is not too shabby, but Phil is the best player in the world by a fair margin.
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Post by donnyb on Aug 23, 2015 19:44:18 GMT -5
Think about this also. They have played 3 tournaments together so far and made all 3 finals. And very possible could have won all 3 of them. Didn't but a few one point in each match they lost and they could have maybe. That's about as good as you can get without winning them all. I'm not saying there going to dominate like Phil Todd did but I also think on the fivb there way better played now and much larger ones also. I think when Phil won gold in 2008 and was so dominate all the big dude started coming out of the wood works. Lol.
At the end of the day there off to a great start. Better than him and Rosie started off?
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:44:40 GMT -5
Lucena is probably Phil's best option at the moment, I think. Maybe Patterson, but he can be inconsistent and isn't the defender Lucena is. Other than that? Rosie's game is predicated on his ridiculous athleticism, but IMO that's starting to fade bit by bit. Mayer is smaller/less physical than Nick. Hyden will be almost 44 at the Rio Games. Who else? Smaller Crabb has serious potential, but is he anywhere near ready to be thrown into Olympic qualifying? Burik has played ten years without getting any international experience and would have to pack up and immediately move to SoCal, something he's never shown any interest in doing. Todd? Not in a million years. Getting Tri to play behind a block? He's never done it, and this would be a lousy time to start learning. There just aren't all that many great options for Phil. Barring injury, I think Phil is locked into Nick. And while Nick's play in the final alternated between terrible and sublime, they did end up with a 2nd in their first international tournament together, losing 15-13 in the 3rd to the #1 team in the world. And I don't believe Lucena is overmatched - he's now finished on an FIVB podium with four different partners. He's not a young Karch, he's not an in-his-prime Todd, but I think you can be successful on the World Tour with Nick playing behind a big block. Successful meaning what? By my count there were 31 players in the Main Draw that have won an FIVB. 31. Thats half the field that has won an event. (Not counting players in the qualifier who had won events, another 3 or 4) Given the parity and scoring, its not a particularly hard thing to do. Nick has never done it. In 72 tries. I think Casey is a better option, but in general I agree that Phil is locked into Nick. Hyden is old, Rosie doesnt seem to care, and Tri doesnt seem to want to defend, doesnt make Nick capable though. Not sure why Mark is in the conversation but I thought he had moved to SoCal at the start of the year
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Post by donnyb on Aug 23, 2015 19:45:49 GMT -5
I'm also the guy who said way back when Phil left Rogers and everyone was speculating who he was going to pick up and it was between Rosie Patterson and nick I said Patterson!!! Even tho I like nick the best. The whole world said rosie but man if he would have just listened to me. Lol
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2015 19:48:17 GMT -5
Think about this also. They have played 3 tournaments together so far and made all 3 finals. And very possible could have won all 3 of them. Didn't but a few one point in each match they lost and they could have maybe. That's about as good as you can get without winning them all. I'm not saying there going to dominate like Phil Todd did but I also think on the fivb there way better played now and much larger ones also. I think when Phil won gold in 2008 and was so dominate all the big dude started coming out of the wood works. Lol. At the end of the day there off to a great start. Better than him and Rosie started off? He and Rosie won 2 of 4 FIVBs including their first. It is possible to dominate the FIVB now, Allison just won 4 straight.
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Post by digdugg on Aug 23, 2015 19:54:36 GMT -5
I have seen Patterson completely get shut down also. So you think Phil and john Mayer would have won it? No shot! Nothing against john he's one of my favorites players(we're both left handed) lol but not shot. It's easy to say that he could have won with anyone but they did make he finals and lost in 3 15/13. You think they can only get better the more they play together? Even if it's a tad that could be the difference in getting the win here Not to that degree. On serve receive, what percent of balls do you think Nick put away? Maybe 50%? If I had to guess I would say significantly less. I actually meant down to Mayer, meaning everyone above him, but in this case do I think he would have won with Mayer today? Probably. All Phil needed today was someone who could side out and pick up a few easy digs. (created by Phil's serving and blocking). Nick failed to do that. In terms of them getting better the more they play together, first I think historically that's not something that happens a ton with veterans. Second Nick is 35 years old and heavily dependent on quickness and jumping. They don't have a ton of time to improve. I think they are a top 5-7 team in the world, which is not too shabby, but Phil is the best player in the world by a fair margin. Guest2, did Nick pee in your Cheerios or something...lol. It was a great tournament for them. And despite Nick's struggles, he has seemed to energize Phil in a way I have not seen in years which has put Phil back!. That in and of itself is meaningful. Mayer aka Jon Snow has the court vibe of a white walker and we know where Rosie's temperament and play has been - neither would bring this out of Phil. It's a legitimate argument that we don't have out two best Americans paired - a Patterson Daulhauser pairing would be talent wise the best but he is not available. Nick is not in the top 10 in the world except for strict defense but I do think they will be able to get it together and fix some of these things as they get in a better rhythm. 3 finals in the first 3 tourneys is a pretty good start. Let's give this a little rope. you may be right that they can only win a few tourneys per year but no one is really winning consistently except the team they played and they took them to a tight 3 setter...
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Post by haze on Aug 23, 2015 20:44:34 GMT -5
They had a chance. Nick isn't anywhere close to Rodgers when he was at the top of his game. I think for them to win won Phil will have to be in ample beast mode.
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