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Post by donnyb on Aug 25, 2015 16:38:26 GMT -5
That don't make since. So if he put into 2 of 16 away that's 14 points difference and game 3 was 8 point difference but they only lost by 2. Didn't Phil hit a ball in the net or something? Was Phil 100%? If messed up 1 time say that's a 9 point swing. Did Phil make up 7 points in game 3 by blocks and aces?
I didn't watch the match but I find it hard to believe nick played that bad. They lost to the best team in the world right now in 3 games. Yeah out of The four players in the finals he was #4.
Maybe he just had a bad game. He got served pretty much 99% all tournament long and beat some really good teams.
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Post by kokyu on Aug 25, 2015 17:11:42 GMT -5
So they only aired the women's final and not the men's on TV, seriously?
When can Walsh starting hitting again? I mean not even an overhand float serve? Marlowe's right wtf is she doing on the court!
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Post by guest2 on Aug 25, 2015 17:23:41 GMT -5
That don't make since. So if he put into 2 of 16 away that's 14 points difference and game 3 was 8 point difference but they only lost by 2. Didn't Phil hit a ball in the net or something? Was Phil 100%? If messed up 1 time say that's a 9 point swing. Did Phil make up 7 points in game 3 by blocks and aces? I didn't watch the match but I find it hard to believe nick played that bad. They lost to the best team in the world right now in 3 games. Yeah out of The four players in the finals he was #4. Maybe he just had a bad game. He got served pretty much 99% all tournament long and beat some really good teams. First thats a bad two games, not one. They won some of those points. So if Nick receives serve, gets dug by Bruno, then Bruno hits it out, thats still a ball Nick failed to put away but its a point for Nick and Phil.
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Post by haze on Aug 25, 2015 17:35:18 GMT -5
Of the four players in the Men's final, I believe Lucena would be considered the most "finesse" player. Yes, his height is about the same as Bruno but Bruno is more of a banger than Nick. Therefore, I believe the windy conditions effected Nick's game the most. Nevertheless, the match could have gone either way. The Nick of 10 years ago would have been overmatched. Not the Nick of today. The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched. These stats show that the serving team is definitely getting opportunities of scoring points on serving to Nick, which is really what you're asking for. Phil and Nick very well could have won the match and were right there in the end, but wow those numbers are really bad for that level. I'm not sure what kind of numbers they are looking for but you should be well above 50% at scoring off the serve (not serve recieve hits that are dug up but recieving team, wins the point anyways).
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Post by guest2 on Aug 25, 2015 18:06:17 GMT -5
The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched. What happened in set 2? Set 2 was better. Nick received 19 serves. He put away 7 balls. (But Phil two balled twice and threw a ball so 7 0f 16 or 43%) However some of those balls were more Brazil errors than Nick hitting well. Allison was up too high to swat a ball Nick hit into him for example. What I noticed when I rewatched is that Phil and Nick had big leads in the first two games and couldnt hold them. Game 1 was 4, Game 2 was 5. The other interesting thing was that in Game 1, Nick's passing was very poor. Phil was falling down and bump setting all over the place, but in Game 3 it was very good and he was not much more effective.
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wsobv
Junior High
Posts: 4
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Post by wsobv on Aug 25, 2015 19:23:08 GMT -5
kokyu - men's final aired livery on universal sports on Sunday and is re airing on NBCSN at 5:30 to tonight PST (followed by women's final). hope you are able to watch it!
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Post by kokyu on Aug 25, 2015 19:37:10 GMT -5
kokyu - men's final aired livery on universal sports on Sunday and is re airing on NBCSN at 5:30 to tonight PST (followed by women's final). hope you are able to watch it! thanks recording now
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 25, 2015 21:58:05 GMT -5
Of the four players in the Men's final, I believe Lucena would be considered the most "finesse" player. Yes, his height is about the same as Bruno but Bruno is more of a banger than Nick. Therefore, I believe the windy conditions effected Nick's game the most. Nevertheless, the match could have gone either way. The Nick of 10 years ago would have been overmatched. Not the Nick of today. The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched. You got me to go back and watch the last game...your numbers on Nick were pretty accurate. I recorded 11 serves received and 4 kills by Nick on the first attempt of the rally. Not real good...I agree. But let's compare it to Bruno...He received 6 serves and only put 2 balls away on the first swing. And Alison who received 8 serves and put 2 balls away...but they won 3 other points(Bruno back set one, went on two once, and they called Phil in the net on the other point.) By my count: Nick had sided out 36% of the time he was served on his first swing. Bruno sided out 33% of the time on his first swing in serve receive. Alison sided out 40% of the time on his first swing. (I eliminated the attacks on 2 by Bruno and didn't count the play where Nick dug him, but Phil was called in the net.) By the numbers Nick was better than Bruno when receiving serve and pretty close to Alison...definitely not overmatched.
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Post by haze on Aug 25, 2015 22:23:21 GMT -5
How do Alison and Phil compare as blockers? No doubt it makes a difference on who you're hitting against, not always statwise but mentally too. I wonder if FIVB and/or AVP keeps stats like that. Those numbers would give you a good indication of how players compare with each other over time.
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Post by camkerr on Aug 25, 2015 22:45:06 GMT -5
How do Alison and Phil compare as blockers? No doubt it makes a difference on who you're hitting against, not always statwise but mentally too. I wonder if FIVB and/or AVP keeps stats like that. Those numbers would give you a good indication of how players compare with each other over time. They don't usually, but did for world's. Here's an example of what that looks like: www.fivb.org/vis_web/beach/MNED2015/MNED2015_MatchReport_104.pdf
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Post by kokyu on Aug 26, 2015 2:52:18 GMT -5
Ugh TV didn't show the second set, the one USA actually won.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 3:45:22 GMT -5
The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched. You got me to go back and watch the last game...your numbers on Nick were pretty accurate. I recorded 11 serves received and 4 kills by Nick on the first attempt of the rally. Not real good...I agree. But let's compare it to Bruno...He received 6 serves and only put 2 balls away on the first swing. And Alison who received 8 serves and put 2 balls away...but they won 3 other points(Bruno back set one, went on two once, and they called Phil in the net on the other point.) By my count: Nick had sided out 36% of the time he was served on his first swing. Bruno sided out 33% of the time on his first swing in serve receive. Alison sided out 40% of the time on his first swing. (I eliminated the attacks on 2 by Bruno and didn't count the play where Nick dug him, but Phil was called in the net.) By the numbers Nick was better than Bruno when receiving serve and pretty close to Alison...definitely not overmatched. You are misunderstanding the point completely. Allison and Bruno also played poorly, which is the only reason Phil and Nick were in the game to the extent they were (and the last game was 14-11, so the final score made it look closer than it was) That doesn't mean Nick was not overmatched on serve receive. Nick and Phil scored 6 real points in a game to 15 and Brazil won comfortably. In the other two games, Nick and Phil also scored a ton of real points. A lot of that was good defense and great blocking, but Allison and Bruno played very poorly by their standards. If Nick and Phil can't beat them when they are playing that way, when can they beat them? Also look at the plays Allison and Bruno failed to side out on. With one or two exceptions they were hard plays to make, whereas many of the plays Nick failed to side out on were the equivalent of free balls. The only way you watch that match and come to the conclusion that Nick belongs with the other 3 is if you had a predetermined conclusion and looked for reasons to believe it. Maybe that changes in the future, and again, I think playing with Phil Nick will win at least one event per year. When Phil made the final two years ago with Casey Jennings, and had a much better tournament than this one, did you think to yourself, Casey belongs at this level? No of course not. So whats the difference here?
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 26, 2015 5:33:37 GMT -5
Your statement that the last game was 14-11, proves your bias. The last game was also 14-13. If PHIL had served Bruno (who's sideout % was worse than Nick's and had just choked at 14-12) the game probably would have been 14-14. You also stated Brazil won comfortably...they won BY THE SMALLEST MARGIN POSSIBLE. YOU are the one with the predetermined conclusion and even after watching the replay and looking at hard numbers you continue with your Nick bashing! Numbers don't have an opinion....you do.
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Post by donnyb on Aug 26, 2015 5:41:07 GMT -5
I watched some of the match last night and I actually think Phil made quite a few mistakes. One play he didn't side out 2 times in a row. And I think Phil answer nick didn't play that we'll.
You also say Bruno and Alison didn't play well but was that because they played a team was great and made them look bad? Which you can say the same thing for Phil and nick. I think it was 2 great teams battling it out. Both teams dug some really good ball etc
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Post by guest2 on Aug 26, 2015 6:32:39 GMT -5
Fine here are some numbers:
Nick is 35 years old. No other player that old in the top 15 has failed to win a tournament. All of the players older than him, with the exception of Hyden, have won at least 5 FIVBs (Gibb, Phil, Rego, Santos, Reindeer)
In 11 years on the AVP, Nick is averaging .45 wins per year.
His career high for AVP wins in a year is 1
His career high for FIVB finals in a year is 1
Which number is higher, the number of finals Nick has made, or the number of players currently on tour who are: 1) Ten years or more younger than Nick and 2) Have already won a tournament?
Nick is a great competitor and the second best East Coast player ever (Sorry BJ and Richmond) but he is 35 years old and there is nothing in his history (or the final last week) to suggest he is an elite player at the world level. Take any top 10 team, replace the defender with Nick and ask yourself, is that team better now? The answer is going to be no.
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