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Post by klazk on Aug 23, 2015 20:45:29 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one who saw it, but Dalhausser had more than one run of awful sets to Lucena in games 2 and 3. A couple at crucial times in terms of momentum. In other words, Lucena wasn't the only one with untimely errors in that match.
Without a doubt the first game was all on Lucena; but they both made their fair share of mistakes in games 2 and 3 ... and they still had a chance to win. Bruno played out his mind - and they still had a chance to win.
If I'm an optimist, I'm thinking they are going to do just fine the rest of 2015 while they get some events under their belts. Then in 2016 after an offseason to perfect where Lucena wants the ball, they are going to be hard to beat. Even if I'm only a realist, I think barring injury or an insane run from Hyden/Bourne, they are going to make Rio and have a legitimate shot at the podium.
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Post by haze on Aug 23, 2015 20:47:07 GMT -5
Not to that degree. On serve receive, what percent of balls do you think Nick put away? Maybe 50%? If I had to guess I would say significantly less. I actually meant down to Mayer, meaning everyone above him, but in this case do I think he would have won with Mayer today? Probably. All Phil needed today was someone who could side out and pick up a few easy digs. (created by Phil's serving and blocking). Nick failed to do that. In terms of them getting better the more they play together, first I think historically that's not something that happens a ton with veterans. Second Nick is 35 years old and heavily dependent on quickness and jumping. They don't have a ton of time to improve. I think they are a top 5-7 team in the world, which is not too shabby, but Phil is the best player in the world by a fair margin. Guest2, did Nick pee in your Cheerios or something...lol. It was a great tournament for them. And despite Nick's struggles, he has seemed to energize Phil in a way I have not seen in years which has put Phil back!. That in and of itself is meaningful. Mayer aka Jon Snow has the court vibe of a white walker and we know where Rosie's temperament and play has been - neither would bring this out of Phil. It's a legitimate argument that we don't have out two best Americans paired - a Patterson Daulhauser pairing would be talent wise the best but he is not available. Nick is not in the top 10 in the world except for strict defense but I do think they will be able to get it together and fix some of these things as they get in a better rhythm. 3 finals in the first 3 tourneys is a pretty good start. Let's give this a little rope. you may be right that they can only win a few tourneys per year but no one is really winning consistently except the team they played and they took them to a tight 3 setter... Whoa - did Mayer and Rosie piss in your cheerios or somethng? Patterson has falling off the wagon again at he moment. Rose and Phil fizzled out, a Patterson and Hillary partnership wold have self destructed.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 23, 2015 22:21:58 GMT -5
Guest2, did Nick pee in your Cheerios or something...lol. It was a great tournament for them. And despite Nick's struggles, he has seemed to energize Phil in a way I have not seen in years which has put Phil back!. That in and of itself is meaningful. Mayer aka Jon Snow has the court vibe of a white walker and we know where Rosie's temperament and play has been - neither would bring this out of Phil. It's a legitimate argument that we don't have out two best Americans paired - a Patterson Daulhauser pairing would be talent wise the best but he is not available. Nick is not in the top 10 in the world except for strict defense but I do think they will be able to get it together and fix some of these things as they get in a better rhythm. 3 finals in the first 3 tourneys is a pretty good start. Let's give this a little rope. you may be right that they can only win a few tourneys per year but no one is really winning consistently except the team they played and they took them to a tight 3 setter... Whoa - did Mayer and Rosie piss in your cheerios or somethng? Patterson has falling off the wagon again at he moment. Rose and Phil fizzled out, a Patterson and Hillary partnership wold have self destructed. Patterson and Hillary?
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 23, 2015 22:31:05 GMT -5
Lucena is probably Phil's best option at the moment, I think. Maybe Patterson, but he can be inconsistent and isn't the defender Lucena is. Other than that? Rosie's game is predicated on his ridiculous athleticism, but IMO that's starting to fade bit by bit. Mayer is smaller/less physical than Nick. Hyden will be almost 44 at the Rio Games. Who else? Smaller Crabb has serious potential, but is he anywhere near ready to be thrown into Olympic qualifying? Burik has played ten years without getting any international experience and would have to pack up and immediately move to SoCal, something he's never shown any interest in doing. Todd? Not in a million years. Getting Tri to play behind a block? He's never done it, and this would be a lousy time to start learning. There just aren't all that many great options for Phil. Barring injury, I think Phil is locked into Nick. And while Nick's play in the final alternated between terrible and sublime, they did end up with a 2nd in their first international tournament together, losing 15-13 in the 3rd to the #1 team in the world. And I don't believe Lucena is overmatched - he's now finished on an FIVB podium with four different partners. He's not a young Karch, he's not an in-his-prime Todd, but I think you can be successful on the World Tour with Nick playing behind a big block. Successful meaning what? By my count there were 31 players in the Main Draw that have won an FIVB. 31. Thats half the field that has won an event. (Not counting players in the qualifier who had won events, another 3 or 4) Given the parity and scoring, its not a particularly hard thing to do. Nick has never done it. In 72 tries. I think Casey is a better option, but in general I agree that Phil is locked into Nick. Hyden is old, Rosie doesnt seem to care, and Tri doesnt seem to want to defend, doesnt make Nick capable though. Not sure why Mark is in the conversation but I thought he had moved to SoCal at the start of the year Successful means a podium threat every tournament and winning two-four Grand Slams or Majors. That's a very good year in today's FIVB. I'm not going to bother to check the record of every player at Long Beach, but the number of winners you quoted isn't particularly surprising to me (if true), given the sheer number of events over the past decade and the presence of a large number of low-level Opens. Even so, perhaps it's concerning that Lucena hasn't broken through with a win. On the other hand, he's gotten to the finals multiple times with multiple partners. With Doherty, he picked up a silver and bronze in two Grand Slams. What has Doherty done with any other partner on the World Tour? With Brunner, Lucena picked up a 3rd in a Grand Slam and 4th in the World Championships. My point is that, IMO, it's evident Lucena has shown he isn't physically overmatched playing with the Big Boys. I brought Burik up because he's one of the better defensive players on the AVP right now. You know, you might be right about him moving out here - in the back of my mind I seem to recall something about that, although I don't know for sure.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 24, 2015 5:18:48 GMT -5
Successful meaning what? By my count there were 31 players in the Main Draw that have won an FIVB. 31. Thats half the field that has won an event. (Not counting players in the qualifier who had won events, another 3 or 4) Given the parity and scoring, its not a particularly hard thing to do. Nick has never done it. In 72 tries. I think Casey is a better option, but in general I agree that Phil is locked into Nick. Hyden is old, Rosie doesnt seem to care, and Tri doesnt seem to want to defend, doesnt make Nick capable though. Not sure why Mark is in the conversation but I thought he had moved to SoCal at the start of the year Successful means a podium threat every tournament and winning two-four Grand Slams or Majors. That's a very good year in today's FIVB. I'm not going to bother to check the record of every player at Long Beach, but the number of winners you quoted isn't particularly surprising to me (if true), given the sheer number of events over the past decade and the presence of a large number of low-level Opens. Even so, perhaps it's concerning that Lucena hasn't broken through with a win. On the other hand, he's gotten to the finals multiple times with multiple partners. With Doherty, he picked up a silver and bronze in two Grand Slams. What has Doherty done with any other partner on the World Tour? With Brunner, Lucena picked up a 3rd in a Grand Slam and 4th in the World Championships. My point is that, IMO, it's evident Lucena has shown he isn't physically overmatched playing with the Big Boys. I brought Burik up because he's one of the better defensive players on the AVP right now. You know, you might be right about him moving out here - in the back of my mind I seem to recall something about that, although I don't know for sure. Its nice to see Mark getting recognition. Even as one of his biggest fans it just surprised me to see him in that company.
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Post by donnyb on Aug 24, 2015 6:08:12 GMT -5
Mark is not in that company. The top defenders is way better than mark. That's the problem tho with USA players we don't have many right now.
Right now I would say the top defenders are Rosie, john, nick and hyden hands down then the next group isn't close to them 4. Mark might be in the 3rd group possibly
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Post by guest2 on Aug 24, 2015 10:51:18 GMT -5
Mark is not in that company. The top defenders is way better than mark. That's the problem tho with USA players we don't have many right now. Right now I would say the top defenders are Rosie, john, nick and hyden hands down then the next group isn't close to them 4. Mark might be in the 3rd group possibly Those 4 plus Casey no question they are better than Mark, but who else? Probably Casey, Todd and Billy Allen, but I dont see anyone else thats sigmificantly better.
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Post by love2vball on Aug 24, 2015 11:00:16 GMT -5
I know the reason for these boards are always to vent frustration, share information or sound important. But Im pretty sure that Phii is capable of making his own choice by now on who he wants to play with, who can pad his bank account and who gives him his best shot at a medal in Rio. It was more than obvious that he and Rosie ran their course. Hyden? No future in that. Tri? Interesting, but worth that risk? John Mayer? If he wanted him he could have had him. Casey? I just dont see it. His antics would drive me crazy long term and Phil's more laid back then I am. You have to have cohesion with your partner out there and it's listed on the line just under ability. Could he play with him? Sure. Would he be happy in that marriage? Not so sure. But he's a big boy now and can make his own decisions on who he wants to play with and he chose to play with Nick. Case closed. They will try to figure out what they need to work on in order to succeed Im sure. Phil seems like the kind of guy who will live with his decisions right or wrong, no? And so should everyone else.
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Post by donnyb on Aug 24, 2015 14:00:35 GMT -5
Oh yeah ans casey. But the next group would be like Jennings Rogers etc then next group mark. And I personally think john Mayer is on the bottom of the first group or top of the second group. quote author=" guest2" source="/post/1325235/thread" timestamp="1440431478"] Mark is not in that company. The top defenders is way better than mark. That's the problem tho with USA players we don't have many right now. Right now I would say the top defenders are Rosie, john, nick and hyden hands down then the next group isn't close to them 4. Mark might be in the 3rd group possibly Those 4 plus Casey no question they are better than Mark, but who else? Probably Casey, Todd and Billy Allen, but I dont see anyone else thats sigmificantly better. [/quote]
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Aug 24, 2015 14:15:11 GMT -5
Re: Burik - he was outstanding at the Manhattan Open, leading the tournament in digs by a good margin (part of that is the high number of games he played, but he was pretty much digging everything regardless). I saw his matches against Theo/Rosie and Jennings/Kolinske, and Burik outplayed Rosie and Casey. He also had a very good showing in the most recent NORCECA against a pretty good field. Burik's offense could use some polishing, but he was easily one of the top defensive players at the MBO. We'd be spending a lot more time talking about him if he had a better partner.
He's not in the 1st rank - Lucena, Mayer, Rosie, Patterson...but I think he's definitely in the next group.
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Post by stevieofmb on Aug 24, 2015 15:26:25 GMT -5
Of the four players in the Men's final, I believe Lucena would be considered the most "finesse" player. Yes, his height is about the same as Bruno but Bruno is more of a banger than Nick. Therefore, I believe the windy conditions effected Nick's game the most. Nevertheless, the match could have gone either way. The Nick of 10 years ago would have been overmatched. Not the Nick of today.
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Post by ardatak on Aug 24, 2015 16:16:42 GMT -5
Is there a video of the men's final anywhere online? All I can find is low def cams from Friday & Saturday and the women's final.
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Post by gk on Aug 24, 2015 17:53:59 GMT -5
If you went to the stream link provided at volleyballsource, they have the replay available to watch, but you do need to do it from a german IP and they have a video about doing that there at the volleysource link: volleyballsource.net/news/2015/8/13/the-2015-world-series-of-beach-volleyballIf you can't get it to work send me a message and I may be able to help you get a copy of the match....
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Post by guest2 on Aug 25, 2015 15:20:12 GMT -5
Of the four players in the Men's final, I believe Lucena would be considered the most "finesse" player. Yes, his height is about the same as Bruno but Bruno is more of a banger than Nick. Therefore, I believe the windy conditions effected Nick's game the most. Nevertheless, the match could have gone either way. The Nick of 10 years ago would have been overmatched. Not the Nick of today. The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 25, 2015 15:44:45 GMT -5
Of the four players in the Men's final, I believe Lucena would be considered the most "finesse" player. Yes, his height is about the same as Bruno but Bruno is more of a banger than Nick. Therefore, I believe the windy conditions effected Nick's game the most. Nevertheless, the match could have gone either way. The Nick of 10 years ago would have been overmatched. Not the Nick of today. The wind may have had an effect, but its not an excuse at that level, and it wasnt exactly gusting. I went back and watched the match again. I paid particular attention to Nick siding out. In Game 1 he received 16 serves. He put 2 balls away. Less than 20% In Game 3 he received 11 serves. He put 3 balls away. Less than 30% Thats the definition of overmatched. What happened in set 2?
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