trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,375
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Post by trojansc on Sept 3, 2015 20:52:02 GMT -5
There is a chance that 3 South American teams qualify to the Olympics? Eek! Possible but only in the mathematical sense. The 2nd place South American team is going to get hammered at the world qualifier.
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Post by BeiBei on Sept 3, 2015 21:12:57 GMT -5
There is a chance that 3 South American teams qualify to the Olympics? Eek! So bad. FIVB is a mess. Some of the best teams don't get to go to the Olympics because we're being "fair" ... Scree that. No African team or south Anerican team deserves a bid. Seriously. Make them earn it. They are the dumbest organization ever. I still dont understand their logic of not letting the OG host country take part in the World Cup. It is still after all a once every four years event. You want the best possible teams at these major tournaments. Furthermore in 2007, China was the defending champ too. How can you rob someone of a chance to defend their title especially at a once in four years tournament? IMHO, I think the defending champ should always participate in the tournament and wild card given to them if necessary. I think Italy should play in this world cup. Can you imagine WTA ask Serena Williams not to play at the Australian Open, French Open and Wimbledon next year? I am glad though that they change the formula by giving importance to total match wins than total points won. A team who won all matches 3-2 can still lose out on a medal under the old system. A win is a win no matter how close it is
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Post by gobruins on Sept 4, 2015 5:52:00 GMT -5
So bad. FIVB is a mess. Some of the best teams don't get to go to the Olympics because we're being "fair" ... Scree that. No African team or south Anerican team deserves a bid. Seriously. Make them earn it. They are the dumbest organization ever. I still dont understand their logic of not letting the OG host country take part in the World Cup. It is still after all a once every four years event. You want the best possible teams at these major tournaments. Furthermore in 2007, China was the defending champ too. How can you rob someone of a chance to defend their title especially at a once in four years tournament? IMHO, I think the defending champ should always participate in the tournament and wild card given to them if necessary. I think Italy should play in this world cup. Can you imagine WTA ask Serena Williams not to play at the Australian Open, French Open and Wimbledon next year? I am glad though that they change the formula by giving importance to total match wins than total points won. A team who won all matches 3-2 can still lose out on a medal under the old system. A win is a win no matter how close it is So, a 10-1 Serbia team with 27 points finishes ahead of a 9-2 USA team with 28 points?
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,375
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Post by trojansc on Sept 4, 2015 5:57:48 GMT -5
They are the dumbest organization ever. I still dont understand their logic of not letting the OG host country take part in the World Cup. It is still after all a once every four years event. You want the best possible teams at these major tournaments. Furthermore in 2007, China was the defending champ too. How can you rob someone of a chance to defend their title especially at a once in four years tournament? IMHO, I think the defending champ should always participate in the tournament and wild card given to them if necessary. I think Italy should play in this world cup. Can you imagine WTA ask Serena Williams not to play at the Australian Open, French Open and Wimbledon next year? I am glad though that they change the formula by giving importance to total match wins than total points won. A team who won all matches 3-2 can still lose out on a medal under the old system. A win is a win no matter how close it is So, a 10-1 Serbia team with 27 points finishes ahead of a 9-2 USA team with 28 points? Yep. And in my opinion, rightfully so.
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Post by ironhammer on Sept 4, 2015 8:10:21 GMT -5
So bad. FIVB is a mess. Some of the best teams don't get to go to the Olympics because we're being "fair" ... Scree that. No African team or south Anerican team deserves a bid. Seriously. Make them earn it. They are the dumbest organization ever. I still dont understand their logic of not letting the OG host country take part in the World Cup. It is still after all a once every four years event. You want the best possible teams at these major tournaments. Furthermore in 2007, China was the defending champ too. How can you rob someone of a chance to defend their title especially at a once in four years tournament? IMHO, I think the defending champ should always participate in the tournament and wild card given to them if necessary. I think Italy should play in this world cup. Can you imagine WTA ask Serena Williams not to play at the Australian Open, French Open and Wimbledon next year? I am glad though that they change the formula by giving importance to total match wins than total points won. A team who won all matches 3-2 can still lose out on a medal under the old system. A win is a win no matter how close it is
Look on the bright side, as inexplicable as some of the tournament formats can be, at least FIVB isn't mired in corruption scandals like FIFA is. Although I suppose that is simply a function of the fact that volleyball is nowhere close to being as big and global as soccer. Hence the money involved in volleyball is a lot less than soccer, and the incentive to bribe is therefore curtailed. One does wonder if volleyball ever approaches soccer in popularity ( or even basketball), whether the game will still be so "clean". Likewise, tournament formats may be even more absurd or skewed in that event.
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Post by Reach on Sept 4, 2015 8:19:30 GMT -5
I literally can't keep up with the fivb. They change the tournament rules every year it seems. Good lord. Why are they even giving points if it's all about wins at the end of the day???
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Post by itsallrelative on Sept 4, 2015 8:21:52 GMT -5
I literally can't keep up with the fivb. They change the tournament rules every year it seems. Good lord. Why are they even giving points if it's all about wins at the end of the day??? 1st is wins, 2nd criteria is points.... And with the round robin format, ties in record are very possible
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Post by jets on Sept 5, 2015 5:14:27 GMT -5
FIVB needs to implement a 2 team tiebreaker regarding head-to-head match after each level of criteria. 1) Match Record (If a tie in match record, look at records of those teams against each other only. 2 teams: head-to-head winner takes the tiebreaker. If 3 teams: looking at only those matches involving the tied teams, if the records are 2-0, 1-1, 0-2, that's the order of the tiebreaker. If all 3 teams are 1-1, move to next criteria. Same with 4 teams tied, if 3-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3, that's the tiebreak order, if 2-1, 2-1, 1-2, 1-2, then the winner of the match between the teams with 2-1 records wins tiebreaker, the other 2-1 team is second, winner of the 1-2 teams' match is third. And so on for 5 or more teams tied in match record) 2) Points (use same tiebreaker process )
If Russia had beaten China so that Serbia and Russia finish tied at the top with 10-1 records, Serbia should finish first because they won the head-to-head, not Russia because they did better against the other teams in their wins thus earning more points.
AND... FIVB needs to schedule the final day or final 2 days of competition so countries from the same continental zone do not play each other, thus minimizing if not eliminating the situation this year - where if Japan loses to US then Japan is going to flop on purpose to China so that China takes second ahead of USA and qualifies for Olympics at WC (thus removing China from the Asia continental zone qualifying competition).
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Post by gb77 on Sept 5, 2015 6:08:19 GMT -5
i agree with 1st tie breaker being head 2 head & jets sentiment about fivb schedules creating 'unsportsmanlike' incentives for teams to tank. but in the end i'm glad that serbia is likely thru to the olympics & i'd be happy to see japan there without having to go thru china. dont know if there is a better euro team that would miss out cuz both china & japan go.
the way china beat russia shows that japan should lose to china anyway while playing their best
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Post by Upfrontvb on Sept 5, 2015 7:52:55 GMT -5
There is a chance that 3 South American teams qualify to the Olympics? Eek! So bad. FIVB is a mess. Some of the best teams don't get to go to the Olympics because we're being "fair" ... Scree that. No African team or south Anerican team deserves a bid. Seriously. Make them earn it. I agree with what your saying. I want the best teams there and quality play. To me, the Olympics is meant for all countries to get the opportunity to send teams . Volleyball isnt like track and field in which there are many countries that are represented. Maybe the World Championships should be the main tournament..
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Post by digthis on Sept 5, 2015 7:52:55 GMT -5
So correct me if I'm wrong but if USA wins in 3 or 4 and China loses regardless of how many sets USA would get the bid? Did I figure that right?
Will Japan tank their match?
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Post by Sbilo on Sept 5, 2015 7:57:16 GMT -5
Will Japan tank their match? Japan tanking their match vs China is a huge possibility. If China wins tomorrow (and gets the bid), then the Japanese don't have to face the Chinese in the Asian Qualification which would make things easier for them as they only have Korea and Thailand to contend with.
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Post by Sbilo on Sept 5, 2015 8:06:19 GMT -5
All China and Serbia have to do is to win their matches tomorrow and they are going to Rio.
China won over Russia but loses to USA. USA won over China but loses to Russia. Russia won over USA but loses to China. What a tournament.
And the beneficiary of this is Serbia. And IMHO, the Serbians really deserve the Olympic berth. They just killed USA in that 5th set. Had it gone the other way, USA wouldn't have to depend on the result of Japan and China match to know their destiny.
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Post by midnightblue on Sept 5, 2015 8:08:32 GMT -5
Japan has no incentive to win their match vs. China. I wouldn't be surprised to see the reserves in.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,375
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Post by trojansc on Sept 5, 2015 14:49:27 GMT -5
Well, tonight is the last day of the 2015 World Cup.
12th place goes to Algeria. They didn't win a set this entire World Cup. We have a playoff tonight for 10th-11th place! Peru vs. Kenya. Would be a huge win for Kenya's program
9th place goes to CUBA unless they can stun South Korea, unlikely. 8th place goes to Argentina, unless South Korea loses to Cuba, if so, flip these two.
7th place goes to Dominican Republic! Unless they beat the United States, they could finish sixth place. 6th place goes to South Korea unless they lose or DR wins, if so, flip these two.
5th place goes to JAPAN! Even if they swept China 3-0, Japan still finishes fifth.
1st-4th Serbia will finish 1st place if Japan beats China, USA would take second place (granted they beat DR). (Russia/China will be 3rd/4th depending on tie breakers)
Serbia will finish 2nd place if China beats Japan, China would take first place. USA likely third , and Russia 4th.
Russia's only hope to qualify (finish 2nd) would be for Japan to beat China 3-0 or 3-1, AND have Dominican Republic take USA to 5 sets, or DR has to beat USA. Longest of long shots.
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