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Post by zenyada on Oct 6, 2015 4:21:30 GMT -5
They're waiting for Burgess to get better... And Lutz has already gotten better... If Burgess can somehow get healthier as the season progresses...team passing, hitting, and defense improves. (Although even with several nice swings, the second match this week made me question again whether healthier is acheiveable.) So yes, top 10 is about right for this team. And perhaps leaking a bit off topic, all things considered, Haley Hodson has been absolutely terrific carrying a huge load for Stanford as a freshman in the PAC. Sure, shes had a few up and down matches statistically, but watching Stanford, if you listen closely, behind the announcers voice you can hear Howard saying to herself "you go girl". Amidst a very unStanford like first half season of creeping court chaos she competes hard, accepts the responsibility willingly, and handles poorly played points and defeat gracefully. Anybody who's going to throw out numbers and talk about Ford or Johnson as FOY, really has idea the difference in talent. And I'm a huge Ford fan.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Oct 6, 2015 8:27:14 GMT -5
I don't think it's ever happened, at least not in the current format of the tournament. Generally, top 5 teams have very high win-loss records against other teams that have very high win-loss records. That's going to lead to a good RPI, which leads to a seed. So Hawaii could be the very first Top 5 team to not be seeded. Now would that not be a slap in the committees face. How would it be a slap in their face? Like it or not the seeding is done in a tangible and scientific way, the coaches poll isn't. They are two different things. The reality is that it is probably much harder to finish 5th in the Big and have one win vs Florida, than it is to beat Florida and go undefeated in Hawaii's league. Doesn't mean Hawaii isn't good, it just means they don't have the opportunity to prove it in the way others do. If I am Hawaii (I'm not) I would play each year at Michigan and Michigan St. and host a tournament with Kentucky and Florida St. I think this solves a lot of their problems as it relates to rpi and the rest of the free world wondering how good they are relative to the NCAA
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 6, 2015 14:59:25 GMT -5
So Hawaii could be the very first Top 5 team to not be seeded. Now would that not be a slap in the committees face. How would it be a slap in their face? Like it or not the seeding is done in a tangible and scientific way, the coaches poll isn't. They are two different things. The reality is that it is probably much harder to finish 5th in the Big and have one win vs Florida, than it is to beat Florida and go undefeated in Hawaii's league. Doesn't mean Hawaii isn't good, it just means they don't have the opportunity to prove it in the way others do. If I am Hawaii (I'm not) I would play each year at Michigan and Michigan St. and host a tournament with Kentucky and Florida St. I think this solves a lot of their problems as it relates to rpi and the rest of the free world wondering how good they are relative to the NCAA Good thing you're not Hawai'i. If I am Hawai'i, I play the schedule I'm given to the best of my ability. I strive to get better during the season so when the tournament comes around, I'm playing my best volleyball. I don't worry about decisions being made by administrators that are out of my control- I only focus on the things I can control. When the pairings come out I feel disappointed not to be playing in front of my fans-the best collegiate volleyball fans in the country but I focus on the task at hand, with a chip on my shoulder and the NCAA title in my sights.
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Post by bigfan on Oct 6, 2015 15:07:14 GMT -5
If I am Hawaii (I'm not) I would play each year at Michigan and Michigan St. and host a tournament with Kentucky and Florida St. I think this solves a lot of their problems as it relates to rpi and the rest of the free world wondering how good they are relative to the NCAA I am sure Hawai`i would love to schedule teams of the caliber of Texas, Penn St, Florida, Stanford, Southern Cal, Miennesota etc, every year for the pre season..............but it costs a ton of money for the travel.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 6, 2015 15:29:40 GMT -5
So Hawaii could be the very first Top 5 team to not be seeded. Now would that not be a slap in the committees face. Stop getting ahead of yourself. There's a lot of season left. RPI matters a lot, but it isn't "everything." OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20.
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trojansc
Legend
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Posts: 28,355
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Post by trojansc on Oct 6, 2015 15:45:50 GMT -5
Stop getting ahead of yourself. There's a lot of season left. RPI matters a lot, but it isn't "everything." OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. Agree with all of this. Also, if Arkansas State keeps winning, their resume is going to look really similar to Hawaii's particularly if Missouri State keeps winning and/or Florida continues to falter.
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Post by vbcoltrane on Oct 6, 2015 15:46:24 GMT -5
Stop getting ahead of yourself. There's a lot of season left. RPI matters a lot, but it isn't "everything." OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. I wasn't saying that I think Hawaii will deserve to be seeded. I was just talking the poster I was responding to off of the proverbial ledge as he/she was upset about a possible scenario where Hawaii is very highly ranked, but unseeded. I was just pointing out that while RPI is very important it is not always followed to the letter and there actually are other factors which can play a role in seeding. But, I wasn't running the numbers and positing that Hawaii should or would be seeded. Up until I read your post, I really didn't know enough about the rest of their schedule.
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Post by volleyfan24 on Oct 6, 2015 15:47:51 GMT -5
Stop getting ahead of yourself. There's a lot of season left. RPI matters a lot, but it isn't "everything." OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. Hawaii homers will hold on to that Florida win but that is starting to look less and less like a statement win with all their losses and UCLA loss doesn't look great they aren't going to get a seed even if they rise in the coaches poll I mean they could but probably a low one. What I am impressed with is the fact they are winning their matches in sweeps which leads me to believe they may be a very good team but the competition isn't very good so its hard to gauge how good they really are.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 6, 2015 15:50:03 GMT -5
OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. Agree with all of this. Also, if Arkansas State keeps winning, their resume is going to look really similar to Hawaii's particularly if Missouri State keeps winning and/or Florida continues to falter. Florida isn't faultering that far. Nothing they can realistically do will drop them out of the top 10, if even the top 5. Missouri State is an interesting case. The Penguin has them projected to end up at 25. If they can stay in the top 25, it will help a lot of teams in the nitty-gritty.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 6, 2015 15:51:53 GMT -5
OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. I wasn't saying that I think Hawaii will deserve to be seeded. I was just talking the poster I was responding to off of the proverbial ledge as he/she was upset about a possible scenario where Hawaii is very highly ranked, but unseeded. I was just pointing out that while RPI is very important it is not always followed to the letter and there actually are other factors which can play a role in seeding. But none of which actually help Hawaii, so I don't know how it's going to help a Hawaii fan off the ledge.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 6, 2015 16:00:36 GMT -5
I wasn't saying that I think Hawaii will deserve to be seeded. I was just talking the poster I was responding to off of the proverbial ledge as he/she was upset about a possible scenario where Hawaii is very highly ranked, but unseeded. I was just pointing out that while RPI is very important it is not always followed to the letter and there actually are other factors which can play a role in seeding. But none of which actually help Hawaii, so I don't know how it's going to help a Hawaii fan off the ledge. There is no ledge. There may be for that particular poster but he is merely one voice. RPI apologists crack me up- so defensive in support of a flawed system.
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Kamali'i-7
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I'm not ethnocentric.
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Post by Kamali'i-7 on Oct 6, 2015 16:01:52 GMT -5
UH:
Higgins (Prepvb.com Ace) / VBM Fab50
Kahakai (Prepvb.com Ace) / VBM Fab50
Taylor (Prepvb.com Ace) / VBM Fab50 / 2x AVCA Beach AA
Granato (Prepvb.com Ace) / VBM Fab50 / AVCA HS AA
Maglio (Boys' Ice Hockey ACE) / CN Phenom75
Magill (Prepvb.com Ace) / VBM Fab50 / AVCA HM AA
Manu-Olevao (4x Punahou, Hawai'i all-State selection)
It's difficult to imagine that some don't have the eye-test moreover, than to rely so heavily upon stats for making sense of matters. Arkansas State, I'm sorry, does not belong in a comparison with UH.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 6, 2015 16:11:19 GMT -5
OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. Hawaii homers will hold on to that Florida win but that is starting to look less and less like a statement win with all their losses and UCLA loss doesn't look great they aren't going to get a seed even if they rise in the coaches poll I mean they could but probably a low one. What I am impressed with is the fact they are winning their matches in sweeps which leads me to believe they may be a very good team but the competition isn't very good so its hard to gauge how good they really are. The Florida win is a good win, many here penciled the Gators in as a Final Four participant at the beginning of the season. But don't kid yourself, neither team played all that great and now the two teams seem to be heading in opposite directions. I won't speak for other Hawai'i fans but I'm not holding on to that win- it was great when it happened but like the team itself, I am moving forward. Hawaii's signature wins will come in the tournament. Posters on this board can claim to not know how good Hawai'i is based on the results but I am certain that the coaches are paying attention. Watch them complain when they get paired with this Hawai'i team in the first or second round of the tourney,
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Post by soljah808 on Oct 6, 2015 16:20:42 GMT -5
OK, so tell me the OTHER things that Hawaii has done to justify a seed? Using the criteria the committee uses. Will it be their record against top 25 teams? Their strength of schedule? Their road performance? Using committee criteria, what is the case for Hawaii over, say, Arkansas? Against the top 25, Arkansas is 2-2, Hawaii is 1-1. Edge to Arkansas. Against the top 50, Hawaii is 2 -1, Arkansas is 4 - 2. Edge to Arkansas. In terms of Strength of Schedule, Hawaii is 141, Arkansas is 89. Oh, in terms of RPI rank, Arkansas is 30 and Hawaii is 35. What is the case for Hawaii being seeded? Because whatever it is, Arkansas gets there first. And who among the top 16 are they going to bump out? Actually, Western Kentucky is a really good comparison to Hawaii. 1 - 1 against the top 25, 2-2 against the top 50. Great road win. Current strength of schedule of 100, but that is going to drop (probably a bit more than Hawaii but not a lot). What's the argument for Hawaii over Western Kentucky using the committee critera? Now, this is based solely on current RPI, so things can change, but given that Hawaii doesn't have another top 50 team on the schedule, it's going to be hard for them to pad their resume. IIRC, BluePenguing projects them to move up to 29, but Arkansas will move up to top 20 or so and Western Kentucky should be inside the top 20. Hawaii homers will hold on to that Florida win but that is starting to look less and less like a statement win with all their losses and UCLA loss doesn't look great they aren't going to get a seed even if they rise in the coaches poll I mean they could but probably a low one. What I am impressed with is the fact they are winning their matches in sweeps which leads me to believe they may be a very good team but the competition isn't very good so its hard to gauge how good they really are. Who is the "s" in homers there? I see one poster complaining about it being a "slap in the face" when most Hawaii knew even before coming in that Hawaii's preseason schedule was probably one of the weaker schedules they put up in a few years! Many saw this coming whether Hawaii won or lost against Florida.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Oct 6, 2015 16:25:38 GMT -5
Are all these posters criticizing hawaii over one fan, not realizing most hawaii fans from the begining said we would need to WIN OUT to get a seed.. Or did they forget that?
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