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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 18:01:35 GMT -5
Not every coach in the Pac12 wants to change the use of RPI. Where did you get your information about this? He said that he didn't need proof for that case. Doubt he needs it for this one. so where is your proof of the coaches that want to change the use of it - why don't you name them just love these demands for 'proof' let's see, I'm a Pac-12 coach & AD and I want to continue to use a system that has a bias against my conference and my team - smh once again at some of these responses from posters trying to play lawyer in their posts - lol
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Post by sisyphus on Oct 29, 2017 18:06:41 GMT -5
He said that he didn't need proof for that case. Doubt he needs it for this one. so where is your proof of the coaches that want to change the use of it - why don't you name them just love these demands for 'proof' let's see, I'm a Pac-12 coach & AD and I want to continue to use a system that has a bias against my conference and my team - smh once again at some of these responses from posters trying to play lawyer in their posts - lol
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 18:25:34 GMT -5
so where is your proof of the coaches that want to change the use of it - why don't you name them just love these demands for 'proof' let's see, I'm a Pac-12 coach & AD and I want to continue to use a system that has a bias against my conference and my team - smh once again at some of these responses from posters trying to play lawyer in their posts - lol wrongo once again - you referenced 'extraordinary claims' and nothing I've noted is 'extraordinary' lol more and more - RPI sucks and all the ACC/SEC apologists can never muster the energy to admit it
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Post by VT Five-0 on Oct 29, 2017 18:38:16 GMT -5
The ACC is 0-27 against Hawai‘i all-time. Not that it’s relevant to this discussion but It’s an interesting fact.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 18:44:40 GMT -5
The ACC is 0-27 against Hawai‘i all-time. Not that it’s relevant to this discussion but It’s an interesting fact. ah, no wonder all these ACC fans don't want Hawaii in the tournament now we know a big reason for so much animosity the ACC has towards the west
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Post by sisyphus on Oct 29, 2017 18:52:19 GMT -5
wrongo once again - you referenced 'extraordinary claims' and nothing I've noted is 'extraordinary' lol more and more - RPI sucks and all the ACC/SEC apologists can never muster the energy to admit it Then take only the second part. If you wish to assert things without evidence, then they can be dismissed just as readily without evidence. Also, that means that when others assert things without evidence, you don't have to ask them to show you evidence either. Makes things easier, everything we say can be accurate because we say it is. Makes things harder because the same holds for everyone you would like to disagree with. Please note that I have said nothing about RPI or conferences or teams. You are certainly welcome to claim whatever you'd like about RPI and "ACC/SEC apologists". I wish to make it clear that my comments are about logic.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 19:13:53 GMT -5
wrongo once again - you referenced 'extraordinary claims' and nothing I've noted is 'extraordinary' lol more and more - RPI sucks and all the ACC/SEC apologists can never muster the energy to admit it Then take only the second part. If you wish to assert things without evidence, then they can be dismissed just as readily without evidence. Also, that means that when others assert things without evidence, you don't have to ask them to show you evidence either. Makes things easier, everything we say can be accurate because we say it is. Makes things harder because the same holds for everyone you would like to disagree with. Please note that I have said nothing about RPI or conferences or teams. You are certainly welcome to claim whatever you'd like about RPI and "ACC/SEC apologists". I wish to make it clear that my comments are about logic. nope your arguments are not really about logic, since you invoked 'extraordinary claims' - throwing out hyperbole like the picture you inserted isn't about logic - granted I like sarcasm as much as anyone especially subtle sarcasm. see, I don't need proof to know that the Pac-12 would prefer something other than RPI - coaches in VB & Baseball have bemoaned it for years (and no I'm not gonna go back and search all the times coaches have quotes in media regarding it for some VT poster). and I don't need proof to know the ACC/SEC has no interest in seeing a system rigged in their favor to change it, funny though I can't recall one instance of a ACC/SEC coach in VB/Baseball complaining aobut it come selection time! see, one doesn't need evidence to make reasonable (not 'extraordinary') claims .....so let's debunk this silliness of these posts (and yours) trying to play lawyer or being about 'logic' lol that's why it's so laughable to see these 'demand of proof' responses - hilarious - hey I readily admit to using a little rhetorical license/liberty when posting - if the ACC/SEC apologist have zero humor on the subject no big deal enjoy the VB !
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Post by trollhunter on Oct 29, 2017 19:36:14 GMT -5
You've made this comment like 10 times in the last day. Hawaii has 1 win over a tournament team, in 5 at home. I can't seem to find updated Massey ratings but did any team other than Cal Poly in the Big West beat a contender for an at-large bid? When your conference collectively has two wins over tournament teams you can't be expecting to get many at-large bids. lol, so if you want to point out Hawaii has that one win, then point out what all these ACC teams have done that stands out?? when their resume is inflated by RPI, you can expect the NCAA to give you inflated bids - anyone that points to the self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e., the ACC teams inflating themselves during conference because they are RPI inflated, ok I get that that's the seletion deal, but it doesn't mean they have (in actual ability) done anything more deserving than Hawaii (so far) other than being located in the right place RPI-wise as usual www.masseyratings.com/cvol/ncaa-d1/ratingsNC State beat.........NOBODY during non-conference - pales to Hawaii's non-conf win Notre Dame beat........Ohio State during non-conference - wow! Miami beat......NOBODY during non-conference Pittsburgh beat.....Dayton during non-conference North Carolina beat....LSU during non-conference so there you have it, five ACC teams with a total of 3 wins during non-conference that are good - and none of which is as good as Hawaii's win that you point out ok so good luck convincing anyone why these those teams are actually any better than Hawaii, other than they reap the benefits of feasting on themselves once conference started? typically ACC/SEC NCAA self-justification via RPI so long as the NCAA uses RPI, and particularly mis-uses it by compounding the flaws using it also for SOS & 'quality' wins, you can expect the postings (beatings) to continues - so my usual disclaimer is just don't read if you do not like Hawaii may lose another match, and then be officially out - just spare the idea that these ACC teams are more 'deserving' other than RPI inflation - lol OK we will try this an easier way for you to understand, comparing teams directly to Hawaii without using word RPI - you can use Massey or Pablo ratings if you wish: NC State - you are correct, Hawaii has one more quality OOC win. NC State has a later win over team with sure tournament resume (Notre Dame) and 2 over a bubble teams (Pitt and FSU), plus chances to earn more (Notre Dame + Louisville). Plus a better SOS. Edge NC State, but it is close - will depend how they finish. Notre Dame - you are wrong, Notre Dame has OOC wins over Michigan State, Ohio State, VCU. Also has picked up a couple later wins versus bubble teams but did not need them to be way ahead of Hawaii. Miami - you are correct, Miami has no good OOC win. They lost 2 weekend tournament to hurricanes, but will not whine about it like some fans. Hawaii is ahead in OOC with 1 win. Miami has since beaten in Louisville and Notre Dame who both have great resumes, so may have pulled ahead or at least caught up. Could see Miami passing NC State on bubble due to H2H/sign wins. Edge Miami over Hawaii, but will need to finish strong. Pittsburg - you are correct, Hawaii has a better OOC win than Pitt. However, Pitt has since beaten Notre Dame and a couple bubble teams (Miami, FSU) who they play again this weekend. Pitt is ahead of Hawaii in quantity of wins over good teams, if not quality. FSU - you left them off, not sure why, but they don't fit your profile. They have a better OOC resume than Hawaii with matching wins over Baylor, also Auburn despite missing a weekend due to hurricane. So edge FSU there. They have a later win over a bubble team Miami and chance to get more. Slightly better SOS. If no bad losses they will be ahead of Hawaii in resume. North Carolina - you are correct, Hawaii has a better OOC win than UNC. However, Tar Heels caught up somewhat with a later win over Louisville. Unless they can beat Louisville or Notre Dame in Nov., they will be behind Hawaii on the bubble. From above: Notre Dame and FSU clearly have better resumes than Hawaii. Miami seems to have an edge over Hawaii in quantity of good wins, but will need to finish strong. NC State and Pitt are basically tied with Hawaii - but still have some quality teams left to play, while Hawaii does not. UNC is behind Hawaii but still has a couple strong teams left to play. My guess is that NC State and UNC do not make the bubble (nor Hawaii), but it could easily work out differently if either finishes strong and beats other strong teams in ACC.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 20:16:07 GMT -5
lol, so if you want to point out Hawaii has that one win, then point out what all these ACC teams have done that stands out?? when their resume is inflated by RPI, you can expect the NCAA to give you inflated bids - anyone that points to the self-fulfilling prophecy, i.e., the ACC teams inflating themselves during conference because they are RPI inflated, ok I get that that's the seletion deal, but it doesn't mean they have (in actual ability) done anything more deserving than Hawaii (so far) other than being located in the right place RPI-wise as usual www.masseyratings.com/cvol/ncaa-d1/ratingsNC State beat.........NOBODY during non-conference - pales to Hawaii's non-conf win Notre Dame beat........Ohio State during non-conference - wow! Miami beat......NOBODY during non-conference Pittsburgh beat.....Dayton during non-conference North Carolina beat....LSU during non-conference so there you have it, five ACC teams with a total of 3 wins during non-conference that are good - and none of which is as good as Hawaii's win that you point out ok so good luck convincing anyone why these those teams are actually any better than Hawaii, other than they reap the benefits of feasting on themselves once conference started? typically ACC/SEC NCAA self-justification via RPI so long as the NCAA uses RPI, and particularly mis-uses it by compounding the flaws using it also for SOS & 'quality' wins, you can expect the postings (beatings) to continues - so my usual disclaimer is just don't read if you do not like Hawaii may lose another match, and then be officially out - just spare the idea that these ACC teams are more 'deserving' other than RPI inflation - lol OK we will try this an easier way for you to understand, comparing teams directly to Hawaii without using word RPI - you can use Massey or Pablo ratings if you wish: NC State - you are correct, Hawaii has one more quality OOC win. NC State has a later win over team with sure tournament resume (Notre Dame) and 2 over a bubble teams (Pitt and FSU), plus chances to earn more (Notre Dame + Louisville). Plus a better SOS. Edge NC State, but it is close - will depend how they finish. Notre Dame - you are wrong, Notre Dame has OOC wins over Michigan State, Ohio State, VCU. Also has picked up a couple later wins versus bubble teams but did not need them to be way ahead of Hawaii. Miami - you are correct, Miami has no good OOC win. They lost 2 weekend tournament to hurricanes, but will not whine about it like some fans. Hawaii is ahead in OOC with 1 win. Miami has since beaten in Louisville and Notre Dame who both have great resumes, so may have pulled ahead or at least caught up. Could see Miami passing NC State on bubble due to H2H/sign wins. Edge Miami over Hawaii, but will need to finish strong. Pittsburg - you are correct, Hawaii has a better OOC win than Pitt. However, Pitt has since beaten Notre Dame and a couple bubble teams (Miami, FSU) who they play again this weekend. Pitt is ahead of Hawaii in quantity of wins over good teams, if not quality. FSU - you left them off, not sure why, but they don't fit your profile. They have a better OOC resume than Hawaii with matching wins over Baylor, also Auburn despite missing a weekend due to hurricane. So edge FSU there. They have a later win over a bubble team Miami and chance to get more. Slightly better SOS. If no bad losses they will be ahead of Hawaii in resume. North Carolina - you are correct, Hawaii has a better OOC win than UNC. However, Tar Heels caught up somewhat with a later win over Louisville. Unless they can beat Louisville or Notre Dame in Nov., they will be behind Hawaii on the bubble. From above: Notre Dame and FSU clearly have better resumes than Hawaii. Miami seems to have an edge over Hawaii in quantity of good wins, but will need to finish strong. NC State and Pitt are basically tied with Hawaii - but still have some quality teams left to play, while Hawaii does not. UNC is behind Hawaii but still has a couple strong teams left to play. My guess is that NC State and UNC do not make the bubble (nor Hawaii), but it could easily work out differently if either finishes strong and beats other strong teams in ACC. finally! a reasonable response! I didn't include FSU & Louisville precisely because they had a better case IMO the rest, including Notre Dame - not so much - yeah ND has the MSU win at home, then again the Ohio State win has an Ohio State loss - that puts them on the level of a non-tournament Ohio State team, but better with the MSU win - also have to factor ND with six losses to these ACC teams including GT so we agree, the ACC will continue to boost each other's bubble resumes while Hawaii has no shot at that - they can only win out and get an ok but not so great road win at Irvine that doesn't do a lot yeah, Miami has those two wins; so what they also lost to ND, Louisville, Pittsburgh, FSU - that's a 33% winning percentage compared to Hawaii's 0-0 in conference versus similar profile teams - and that's the problem for Hawaii faces - no opportunities to differentiate bottom line is, yeah the ACC is in fact feasting on itself RPI-wise this year - anybody that argues otherwise has blinders on - all Hawaii can do at this point is have a conference resume if they win out that shows they did what they had to - which includes two close calls with a team (Poly) that is above anything in the ACC and then beating everyone else should they win out just the way it is
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Post by sisyphus on Oct 29, 2017 20:28:46 GMT -5
Then take only the second part. If you wish to assert things without evidence, then they can be dismissed just as readily without evidence. Also, that means that when others assert things without evidence, you don't have to ask them to show you evidence either. Makes things easier, everything we say can be accurate because we say it is. Makes things harder because the same holds for everyone you would like to disagree with. Please note that I have said nothing about RPI or conferences or teams. You are certainly welcome to claim whatever you'd like about RPI and "ACC/SEC apologists". I wish to make it clear that my comments are about logic. nope your arguments are not really about logic, since you invoked 'extraordinary claims' - throwing out hyperbole like the picture you inserted isn't about logic - granted I like sarcasm as much as anyone especially subtle sarcasm. see, I don't need proof to know that the Pac-12 would prefer something other than RPI - coaches in VB & Baseball have bemoaned it for years (and no I'm not gonna go back and search all the times coaches have quotes in media regarding it for some VT poster). and I don't need proof to know the ACC/SEC has no interest in seeing a system rigged in their favor to change it, funny though I can't recall one instance of a ACC/SEC coach in VB/Baseball complaining aobut it come selection time! see, one doesn't need evidence to make reasonable (not 'extraordinary') claims .....so let's debunk this silliness of these posts (and yours) trying to play lawyer or being about 'logic' The two statements can be true separately. They do not rely on one another to be complete. The attributions I could find quickly all had both together. So if we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by one, we can still see that the other is true. It seems to me that you commit many of the same offenses that you accuse others of doing and then hold us to account for them while ignoring your own. A level and clearly-defined playing field helps make more sturdy and convincing arguments. If you'd like to avoid defining that area, you are certainly welcome to do so but that makes it hard for me to take you seriously. I imagine that doesn't matter to you though so carry on.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 29, 2017 20:45:59 GMT -5
nope your arguments are not really about logic, since you invoked 'extraordinary claims' - throwing out hyperbole like the picture you inserted isn't about logic - granted I like sarcasm as much as anyone especially subtle sarcasm. see, I don't need proof to know that the Pac-12 would prefer something other than RPI - coaches in VB & Baseball have bemoaned it for years (and no I'm not gonna go back and search all the times coaches have quotes in media regarding it for some VT poster). and I don't need proof to know the ACC/SEC has no interest in seeing a system rigged in their favor to change it, funny though I can't recall one instance of a ACC/SEC coach in VB/Baseball complaining aobut it come selection time! see, one doesn't need evidence to make reasonable (not 'extraordinary') claims .....so let's debunk this silliness of these posts (and yours) trying to play lawyer or being about 'logic' The two statements can be true separately. They do not rely on one another to be complete. The attributions I could find quickly all had both together. So if we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by one, we can still see that the other is true. It seems to me that you commit many of the same offenses that you accuse others of doing and then hold us to account for them while ignoring your own. A level and clearly-defined playing field helps make more sturdy and convincing arguments. If you'd like to avoid defining that area, you are certainly welcome to do so but that makes it hard for me to take you seriously. I imagine that doesn't matter to you though so carry on. lol - now that's funny - 'a level playing field' - I'm sure you can see the irony in that one regarding this thread
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 29, 2017 22:16:24 GMT -5
Hawaii is actually really getting helped out by the soft bubble. I like their chances much more than I did a few weeks ago, as long as Baylor stays in the Top 25.
The ACC is also doing its best to maximize bids. At the least, the results show the teams are close enough where every day is an adventure.
I'm now predicting Ohio St. and A&M BOTH don't make .500.
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 29, 2017 22:40:31 GMT -5
Hawaii is actually really getting helped out by the soft bubble. I like their chances much more than I did a few weeks ago, as long as Baylor stays in the Top 25. The ACC is also doing its best to maximize bids. At the least, the results show the teams are close enough where every day is an adventure. I'm now predicting Ohio St. and A&M BOTH don't make .500. A&M is on my %*$# list... I still think it's bullcrap that they are throwing off scheduling bonus points and top 50 RPI criteria to teams when they have a 7-11 record! You have to go all the way to the 138th RPI team to find a team that has a worse win/loss records than A&M. Their opponent SOS is so freaking high that it's almost masking how good or bad they actually are!
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Post by mikegarrison on Oct 29, 2017 23:49:20 GMT -5
Hawaii is actually really getting helped out by the soft bubble. I like their chances much more than I did a few weeks ago, as long as Baylor stays in the Top 25. The ACC is also doing its best to maximize bids. At the least, the results show the teams are close enough where every day is an adventure. I'm now predicting Ohio St. and A&M BOTH don't make .500. A&M is on my %*$# list... I still think it's bullcrap that they are throwing off scheduling bonus points and top 50 RPI criteria to teams when they have a 7-11 record! You have to go all the way to the 138th RPI team to find a team that has a worse win/loss records than A&M. Their opponent SOS is so freaking high that it's almost masking how good or bad they actually are! Well that's RPI for you.
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Post by rtael on Oct 30, 2017 2:29:00 GMT -5
nope your arguments are not really about logic, since you invoked 'extraordinary claims' - throwing out hyperbole like the picture you inserted isn't about logic - granted I like sarcasm as much as anyone especially subtle sarcasm. see, I don't need proof to know that the Pac-12 would prefer something other than RPI - coaches in VB & Baseball have bemoaned it for years (and no I'm not gonna go back and search all the times coaches have quotes in media regarding it for some VT poster). and I don't need proof to know the ACC/SEC has no interest in seeing a system rigged in their favor to change it, funny though I can't recall one instance of a ACC/SEC coach in VB/Baseball complaining aobut it come selection time! see, one doesn't need evidence to make reasonable (not 'extraordinary') claims .....so let's debunk this silliness of these posts (and yours) trying to play lawyer or being about 'logic' The two statements can be true separately. They do not rely on one another to be complete. The attributions I could find quickly all had both together. So if we don't allow ourselves to be distracted by one, we can still see that the other is true. It seems to me that you commit many of the same offenses that you accuse others of doing and then hold us to account for them while ignoring your own. A level and clearly-defined playing field helps make more sturdy and convincing arguments. If you'd like to avoid defining that area, you are certainly welcome to do so but that makes it hard for me to take you seriously. I imagine that doesn't matter to you though so carry on. I like you. I also dislike you. Carry on.
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