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Post by bballnut90 on Dec 6, 2017 17:17:50 GMT -5
Honestly I don't think it's fair to the other players in the league. Physically it appears she has a significant advantage in terms of strength and power compared to the other women. Men's volleyball is significant step up from women's in regards to strength, jumping, speed, and power. Even if Tifanny is now a woman, she clearly still has aspects of these elevated attributes that her opponents do not have. This gives her a major advantage. It is 100% a touchy subject, and at the same time I understand that excluding transwomen from women's leagues can be considered discriminatory and exclusive, but in a physical sport where men and women compete at such different levels and play in different leagues with different rules, I don't think it's fair to the other players for transwomen to compete. Congrats to Tifanny on the transition.
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Post by Dash22 on Dec 6, 2017 17:25:00 GMT -5
He can call himself a woman but it will NEVER be!
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Post by c4ndlelight on Dec 6, 2017 17:27:05 GMT -5
I don't know if the Semenya debate is comparable to a transgender player, but I think it's an incredibly important case study for the importance of protecting gendered divisions. The fact is, we've never seen Semenya run to her potential (and it's not coincidental that she's avoided the sprints and chose the mid-distances where it's easier to run tactically and hold back) because she'd be blowing past the incredibly doped up world records and automatically be suspicious. I mean, she tripled the 400-800-1500 (+heats!!!) at the SA Championships over the span of a couple of hours - there's just no way that's even remotely plausible if she were playing on an even playing field. It's not good for sports. What I don't know is where a transgendered individual undergoing hormone therapy falls on this spectrum. Did you read the interview? It's more about how to regulate transgender/intersex athletes competing against females. Running happens to be the sport, but the issues of fairness and how to regulate are the same. I did. I don't profess to have any insight onto the best approach to regulating on a wider scale; however, I do have a particular point of view on the case of Semenya (and that of Wambui and the other runners who have - not coincidentally - congregated in the 800) that I feel particularly strongly about.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 6, 2017 17:34:03 GMT -5
He can call himself a woman but it will NEVER be! You have contributed so much to the discussion with your small-minded post. Thank you.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 6, 2017 17:35:30 GMT -5
Honestly I don't think it's fair to the other players in the league. Physically it appears she has a significant advantage in terms of strength and power compared to the other women. Men's volleyball is significant step up from women's in regards to strength, jumping, speed, and power. Even if Tifanny is now a woman, she clearly still has aspects of these elevated attributes that her opponents do not have. This gives her a major advantage. It is 100% a touchy subject, and at the same time I understand that excluding the transwomen from women's leagues can be considered discriminatory and exclusive, but in a physical sport where men and women compete at such different levels, and play in different leagues with different rules, I don't think it's fair to the other players for transwomen to compete. Congrats to Tifanny on the transition. Have you watched matches in which she has competed? Have you compared her statistics to other players? Do you know anything about her performance? Or are you just making assumptions about how she must play being a transgender woman?
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 6, 2017 17:38:09 GMT -5
Relevance? Ahhh, none. Plenty of women are taller. How many professional female volleyball players are taller than 6'5? Stanford has a couple on their college team.
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Post by dd2000 on Dec 6, 2017 17:38:18 GMT -5
He can call himself a woman but it will NEVER be! I don't agree. If science allows these people to proceed with hormone replacement and surgery in order for them to feel like they are living the life they feel they were meant to live, then I am for it. I do however disagree that they should be given the green light to play women's sports. It seems to me that an advantage exists and at the very least this issue requires study and intense scrutiny.
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Post by Dash22 on Dec 6, 2017 17:42:03 GMT -5
He can call himself a woman but it will NEVER be! You have contributed so much to the discussion with your small-minded post. Thank you. You’re welcome liberal trojan!
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 6, 2017 17:45:21 GMT -5
I do however disagree that they should be given the green light to play women's sports. It seems to me that an advantage exists and at the very least this issue requires study and intense scrutiny. That always comes down to the same issue: what is an "allowable" advantage for a woman athlete to have? Or for that matter, for any athlete to have? Shall we restrict Ethiopians and Kenyans from the marathon because they have a genetic advantage? Usain Bolt clearly has an unfair genetic advantage over me when it comes to sprinting, so should he not be allowed to run? Or if you argue that men compete in the "open" division, then I would say that Kathryn Plummer is simply too good and too tall and too athletic for it to be fair that other college women have to play against her.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 6, 2017 17:49:00 GMT -5
You have contributed so much to the discussion with your small-minded post. Thank you. You’re welcome liberal trojan! I appreciate the compliment. Being liberal is better than being an intolerant, hateful dolt.
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Post by Dash22 on Dec 6, 2017 17:58:39 GMT -5
You’re welcome liberal trojan! I appreciate the compliment. Being liberal is better than being an intolerant, hateful dolt. Oh now you’re going to resort to calling me names! Straight out of the liberal playbook. When they have NOTHING, they always resort back to calling people racists, homophobes, etc. Liberalism 101 at its finest! I call a man a man and that makes me intolerant, hateful, and a dolt? You madam, are a supreme idiot! LMAO!
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Post by volleyball303 on Dec 6, 2017 18:02:22 GMT -5
I do however disagree that they should be given the green light to play women's sports. It seems to me that an advantage exists and at the very least this issue requires study and intense scrutiny. That always comes down to the same issue: what is an "allowable" advantage for a woman athlete to have? Or for that matter, for any athlete to have? Shall we restrict Ethiopians and Kenyans from the marathon because they have a genetic advantage? Usain Bolt clearly has an unfair genetic advantage over me when it comes to sprinting, so should he not be allowed to run? Or if you argue that men compete in the "open" division, then I would say that Kathryn Plummer is simply too good and too tall and too athletic for it to be fair that other college women have to play against her. Everything you listed is natural, born, genetic ability. I really enjoy women’s sports. I would hate to see some male born 475 ranked men’s tennis player decide to become a women and go break every record Serena Williams has worked her ass off for. For the preservation of women’s sports I think born gender is the classification people need to play under. Watch the video of him hitting as a man on a man net posted earlier. I don’t think there is a women in the world that hits like that on a men’s net. Same with UFC Fallon Fox. She has almost killed other women in the ring. Broke a women’s eye socket and another’s jaw. Women UFC fighters are not doing that to each other. But it’s had to have an open discussion with people when expressing a fact that she was born with an X and a Y gets you called transphobic. Maybe a 3rd league can be made and these first transgenders can be the Pioneers of it. That’s how women’s sports got started long ago. I mean NCAA women’s volleyball did not even exist 40 years ago.
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trojansc
Legend
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Posts: 30,165
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Post by trojansc on Dec 6, 2017 18:02:27 GMT -5
I appreciate the compliment. Being liberal is better than being an intolerant, hateful dolt. Oh now you’re going to resort to calling me names! Straight out of the liberal playbook. When they have NOTHING, they always resort back to calling people racists, homophobes, etc. Liberalism 101 at its finest! I call a man a man and that makes me intolerant, hateful, and a dolt? You madam, are a supreme idiot! LMAO! How do you feel about people born with both genitalia? Just wondering your opinion and what makes them male or female. Intersex is more common than you would think.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 6, 2017 18:04:32 GMT -5
That always comes down to the same issue: what is an "allowable" advantage for a woman athlete to have? Or for that matter, for any athlete to have? Shall we restrict Ethiopians and Kenyans from the marathon because they have a genetic advantage? Usain Bolt clearly has an unfair genetic advantage over me when it comes to sprinting, so should he not be allowed to run? Or if you argue that men compete in the "open" division, then I would say that Kathryn Plummer is simply too good and too tall and too athletic for it to be fair that other college women have to play against her. Everything you listed is natural, born, genetic ability. I really enjoy women’s sports. I would hate to see some male born 475 ranked men’s tennis player decide to become a women and go break every record Serena Williams has worked her ass off for. For the preservation of women’s sports I think born gender is the classification people need to play under. Watch the video of him hitting as a man on a man net posted earlier. I don’t think there is a women in the world that hits like that on a men’s net. Same with UFC Fallon Fox. She has almost killed other women in the ring. Broke a women’s eye socket and another’s jaw. Women UFC fighters are not doing that to each other. But it’s had to have an open discussion with people when expressing a fact that she was born with an X and a Y gets you called transphobic. Maybe a 3rd league can be made and these first transgenders can be the Pioneers of it. That’s how women’s sports got started long ago. I mean NCAA women’s volleyball did not even exist 40 years ago. Do you know who Renee Richards is? Transgender people have existed since the dawn of time. If there has yet to be an influx of FTMs taking over women's sports to date, why are you worried it will start happening now that one player got a contract to play in Brazil?
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 6, 2017 18:07:30 GMT -5
I appreciate the compliment. Being liberal is better than being an intolerant, hateful dolt. Oh now you’re going to resort to calling me names! Straight out of the liberal playbook. When they have NOTHING, they always resort back to calling people racists, homophobes, etc. Liberalism 101 at its finest! I call a man a man and that makes me intolerant, hateful, and a dolt? You madam, are a supreme idiot! LMAO! You called a woman a man precisely due to your intolerance, transphobia, and lack of knowledge. So, I just stated a fact and called you what you are, a hateful person. I happen to be a man, who you just called a woman, again either because you are ignorant and/or an ass.
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