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Post by vup on Jul 3, 2018 0:17:57 GMT -5
Just playing devil's advocate here... Our "A" team swept Serbia with Boskovic and Rasic. Our "A" team beat China with Zhu and Yuan, in Nanjing. And, Karch defeated Guidetti (and an impressive young Turkish squad) in the GMM. I guess you can make anything appear the way you want it to when you ignore most of the details. I know I'm stretching, but can we please accept that this win was not a given? I, for one, am surprised we actually won the whole thing.
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Post by gb77 on Jul 3, 2018 22:09:09 GMT -5
had fun reading all the comments which basically argue an opinion on "what should the USA's goal be (have been) for the VNL?"
so many possibilities, but no one can offer insider (players/coaches/bureaucrats) opinions leading to consensus of what they were trying to do: 1. win 2. develop players/coaches/bureacrats to achieve goals not measured by winning 3. some mix of the previous 2
my best guess: players, etc. want to win the 2018 world championship and committing to win the VNL would be the best strategy to accomplish that. after the WC they can work at option 2 & 2019 is the time for that.
players & coaches consistently comment in interviews about the players in their practice gym (b & c players included of course) who make their success possible. it's reasonable to expect that if a player isn't shining above others in the gym, they will not do so elsewhere & will not join teams for olympics, WC or VNL. player injury, fatigue, etc will still give newer players opportuninites, but to think that a player needs to play other countries' most competitive teams to show forth their blossoming "shine" is a stretch. CONCECAF, panam, university & other games & leagues are all available to develop players & manifest their "shine" outside the gym.
USA rosters that have included dietzen & thompson as "leaders" more than "players" are worthy of criticism, but no one can prove that some rarely playing members don't provide some ephemeral team cohesion that maximizes success.
would be fun if you could run multiple VNL tournaments in a year to test different rosters .. but we are stuck with humans in linear time & unprovable opinions
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Post by donut on Jul 3, 2018 22:27:24 GMT -5
had fun reading all the comments which basically argue an opinion on "what should the USA's goal be (have been) for the VNL?" so many possibilities, but no one can offer insider (players/coaches/bureaucrats) opinions leading to consensus of what they were trying to do: 1. win 2. develop players/coaches/bureacrats to achieve goals not measured by winning 3. some mix of the previous 2 Provided this interview in another thread: "' What are your goals for the Volleyball Nations League? Which teams will be your toughest opponents?'We always have the same goal. We want to be the number one in every competition. We take on Italy at home on the opening weekend β they have been getting stronger and stronger recently. It is always fun to play against China, and it goes without saying that Brazil are always one of the favourites." These weren't other countries' most competitive teams - other teams mixed up their rosters. And you do realize 1) there is no "CONCECAF" competition and 2) most of these players have graduated... so what "university" games are you talking about?
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 3, 2018 22:35:49 GMT -5
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Post by donut on Jul 3, 2018 22:52:29 GMT -5
I understand what the World University Games are. Definitely don't think they are ANY opportunity for players with A-Team potential to strut their stuff, ESPECIALLY since the majority of the players are in college. And this obviously isn't our best "young" roster (taken from the 2017 team), considering there is zero overlap other than Rivers: GARDA Madeline Marie HARBIN Danielle Lexes SPEAKS Margaret Virgin JEFFERY Valerie Nicole MC DONALD Jazzmine Marie MARIANI Ashley Nichole WIMBUSH Imani Nailah HORTON Katie Ann VAN GUNST Teegan Morton RIVERS Krystal Denise JORDAN Jenelle Andrea TUCKER Jordan Michelle Case in point, it shouldn't be viewed as a substantial development opportunity for potential Olympians.
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Post by memorybankrupt on Jul 3, 2018 22:54:02 GMT -5
I'm happy for the US Team. I'm glad Lloyd was able to turn it around and put in some nice performances in the last two matches. Again it reminds me of how Karch stuck w/ Glass through her struggles in 2014 WGP, and it seemed to pay off by the WCH. This is a big win for Lloyd who has won a ton in club, but not a ton w/ the NT. Glad that MBH really stepped up and provides that big arm that the US so desperately needs. (The US could still use one more big arm).
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 3, 2018 23:10:24 GMT -5
I understand what the World University Games are. Definitely don't think they are ANY opportunity for players with A-Team potential to strut their stuff, ESPECIALLY since the majority of the players are in college. And this obviously isn't our best "young" roster (taken from the 2017 team), considering there is zero overlap other than Rivers: GARDA Madeline Marie HARBIN Danielle Lexes SPEAKS Margaret Virgin JEFFERY Valerie Nicole MC DONALD Jazzmine Marie MARIANI Ashley Nichole WIMBUSH Imani Nailah HORTON Katie Ann VAN GUNST Teegan Morton RIVERS Krystal Denise JORDAN Jenelle Andrea TUCKER Jordan Michelle Case in point, it shouldn't be viewed as a substantial development opportunity for potential Olympians. The selection criteria allows an athlete who has been away from the university for one year or less to participate, so depending on how the rosters for Pan Am Games, etc. actually get filled out, it is a legitimate training and development opportunity.
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Post by donut on Jul 3, 2018 23:18:04 GMT -5
I understand what the World University Games are. Definitely don't think they are ANY opportunity for players with A-Team potential to strut their stuff, ESPECIALLY since the majority of the players are in college. And this obviously isn't our best "young" roster (taken from the 2017 team), considering there is zero overlap other than Rivers: GARDA Madeline Marie HARBIN Danielle Lexes SPEAKS Margaret Virgin JEFFERY Valerie Nicole MC DONALD Jazzmine Marie MARIANI Ashley Nichole WIMBUSH Imani Nailah HORTON Katie Ann VAN GUNST Teegan Morton RIVERS Krystal Denise JORDAN Jenelle Andrea TUCKER Jordan Michelle Case in point, it shouldn't be viewed as a substantial development opportunity for potential Olympians. The selection criteria allows an athlete who has been away from the university for one year or less to participate, so depending on how the rosters for Pan Am Games, etc. actually get filled out, it is a legitimate training and development opportunity. Right now, our PanAm Games roster is easily our B/C team. So this is what, our D team? And of course it is a legitimate training and development opportunity... for players to maybe get selected to the following Pan Am Games... to get selected for the following VNL... etc. It is not a substitution for the VNL, ESPECIALLY for players 1+ years out.
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Post by jay on Jul 3, 2018 23:49:21 GMT -5
I think if the US wins the world championships in September then next year the 12 just take the whole season off and the whole season should be played with B & C players. these are all Club players so taking the summer off won't diminish their skills as they have a full Club season coming up before the Olympic year. that would be a pretty bold move by karch compared to what other national teams do but I think it might be a wise call because of the age of his team.
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Post by Pipe Attack on Jul 4, 2018 0:55:41 GMT -5
I think if the US wins the world championships in September then next year the 12 just take the whole season off and the whole season should be played with B & C players. these are all Club players so taking the summer off won't diminish their skills as they have a full Club season coming up before the Olympic year. that would be a pretty bold move by karch compared to what other national teams do but I think it might be a wise call because of the age of his team. Hmmm.... but isnt that risky? You'd probably have Olympic qualifying in that year ... and then you'd enter the last year of the quad not playing together as a unit the year before?
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Post by BeiBei on Jul 4, 2018 1:00:51 GMT -5
I think if the US wins the world championships in September then next year the 12 just take the whole season off and the whole season should be played with B & C players. these are all Club players so taking the summer off won't diminish their skills as they have a full Club season coming up before the Olympic year. that would be a pretty bold move by karch compared to what other national teams do but I think it might be a wise call because of the age of his team. You do know that the World Cup will be held next season and the TOP 3 will receive automatic entires to the 2020 OG I donβt think our B or C team will be good enough for the World Cup
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Post by jay on Jul 4, 2018 1:32:30 GMT -5
It is my understanding that we usually qualify through Norceca and that typically does not require our A team. So we are pre-qualified when we hit the Champions Cup Tournament. I'm recollecting that if we follow the form from Rio that the vnl would proceed the Olympics and give the starters plenty of time to gel again. Some of these women have been playing 12 months out of the year for six seven and eight years in a row and the wear and tear has to have an impact.
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 4, 2018 1:35:15 GMT -5
I understand what the World University Games are. Definitely don't think they are ANY opportunity for players with A-Team potential to strut their stuff, ESPECIALLY since the majority of the players are in college. And this obviously isn't our best "young" roster (taken from the 2017 team), considering there is zero overlap other than Rivers: GARDA Madeline Marie HARBIN Danielle Lexes SPEAKS Margaret Virgin JEFFERY Valerie Nicole MC DONALD Jazzmine Marie MARIANI Ashley Nichole WIMBUSH Imani Nailah HORTON Katie Ann VAN GUNST Teegan Morton RIVERS Krystal Denise JORDAN Jenelle Andrea TUCKER Jordan Michelle Case in point, it shouldn't be viewed as a substantial development opportunity for potential Olympians. It's true that that particular roster doesn't suggest that The U Games lead to anything, but rather than dismissing them, it makes more sense to view them as a missed opportunity, perhaps due to a failure of evaluation, coordination, timing or priority. I know of several players in the past, on both the men's and women's side, who used the University Games as springboards to the NT or to pro careers (one or two of whom were athletes who completed NCAA eligibility but hadn't completed graduation.) The key point is that all of these opportunities are controlled by USAV and perhaps a more comprehensive and coordinated approach to the evaluation, selection and training for those opportunities is required.
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 4, 2018 1:38:53 GMT -5
It is my understanding that we usually qualify through Norceca and that typically does not require our A team. So we are pre-qualified when we hit the Champions Cup Tournament. I'm recollecting that if we follow the form from Rio that the vnl would proceed the Olympics and give the starters plenty of time to gel again. Some of these women have been playing 12 months out of the year for six seven and eight years in a row and the wear and tear has to have an impact. I think you have the order reversed. Continental qualification (NORCECA) is after the World Cup qualification. Although NORCECA is less competitive now since Cuba and DR aren't as strong, it doesn't make sense put all the qualification eggs in the NORCECA basket.
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Post by BeiBei on Jul 4, 2018 3:20:07 GMT -5
It is my understanding that we usually qualify through Norceca and that typically does not require our A team. So we are pre-qualified when we hit the Champions Cup Tournament. I'm recollecting that if we follow the form from Rio that the vnl would proceed the Olympics and give the starters plenty of time to gel again. Some of these women have been playing 12 months out of the year for six seven and eight years in a row and the wear and tear has to have an impact. I think you have the order reversed. Continental qualification (NORCECA) is after the World Cup qualification. Although NORCECA is less competitive now since Cuba and DR aren't as strong, it doesn't make sense put all the qualification eggs in the NORCECA basket. sending a B or C team to a once in every four years major event will be a huge disrespect
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