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Post by volleyguy on Feb 9, 2019 15:15:40 GMT -5
Seem's like the older talent is ageing out or playing in other leagues and the up and coming young domestic talent isn't quite at an elite level. This is why the Russian NT is currently in decline. Any Americans playing in the Russian league? It would be politically problematic for a Russian team to have a high profile American, and probably for the player too. What you are describing is not the cause, but the symptom of the decline in the Russian NT. Money is simply not flowing to the Russian League, in particular the women's side, as it once was, due in large part to the economic and psychological effect of sanctions against Russia. The last two Russian NT coaches were hired as political compromises, and there aren't many, if any, teams or coaches with the capability or resources to develop talent in-house as there once were.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Feb 9, 2019 15:20:21 GMT -5
Seem's like the older talent is ageing out or playing in other leagues and the up and coming young domestic talent isn't quite at an elite level. This is why the Russian NT is currently in decline. Any Americans playing in the Russian league? It would be politically problematic for a Russian team to have a high profile American, and probably for the player too. What you are describing is not the cause, but the symptom of the decline in the Russian NT. Money is simply not flowing to the Russian League, in particular the women's side, as it once was, due in large part to the economic and psychological effect of sanctions against Russia. The last two Russian NT coaches were hired as political compromises, and there aren't many, if any, teams or coaches with the capability or resources to develop talent in-house as there once were. Matt Anderson? Are the Russian men's teams similarly struggling because of sanctions? The Russian Women's League is down because Russian is no longer producing a ton of elite women players. Russia would have issues qualifying for Tokyo if the FIVB had a sensible qualification system.
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Post by volleyguy on Feb 9, 2019 15:44:41 GMT -5
It would be politically problematic for a Russian team to have a high profile American, and probably for the player too. What you are describing is not the cause, but the symptom of the decline in the Russian NT. Money is simply not flowing to the Russian League, in particular the women's side, as it once was, due in large part to the economic and psychological effect of sanctions against Russia. The last two Russian NT coaches were hired as political compromises, and there aren't many, if any, teams or coaches with the capability or resources to develop talent in-house as there once were. Matt Anderson? Are the Russian men's teams similarly struggling because of sanctions? The Russian Women's League is down because Russian is no longer producing a ton of elite women players. Russia would have issues qualifying for Tokyo if the FIVB had a sensible qualification system. The women's side has seen a much greater decline in money/sponsorships than the men's side. That is one of the reasons they are producing fewer elite players.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 9, 2019 17:06:15 GMT -5
Matt Anderson? Are the Russian men's teams similarly struggling because of sanctions? The Russian Women's League is down because Russian is no longer producing a ton of elite women players. Russia would have issues qualifying for Tokyo if the FIVB had a sensible qualification system. The women's side has seen a much greater decline in money/sponsorships than the men's side. That is one of the reasons they are producing fewer elite players. Someone earlier ranked the Women's leagues but if you were to rank the leagues around the world, what would your top 10 leagues be? (Ex: Russian, Brazilian, Chinese, Turkish, Italian, German, Japanese, Korean, Polish, French) and no....I'm not suggesting these are the top 10....just listing them as an example.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 18:13:01 GMT -5
Seem's like the older talent is ageing out or playing in other leagues and the up and coming young domestic talent isn't quite at an elite level. This is why the Russian NT is currently in decline. Any Americans playing in the Russian league? It would be politically problematic for a Russian team to have a high profile American, and probably for the player too. What you are describing is not the cause, but the symptom of the decline in the Russian NT. Money is simply not flowing to the Russian League, in particular the women's side, as it once was, due in large part to the economic and psychological effect of sanctions against Russia. The last two Russian NT coaches were hired as political compromises, and there aren't many, if any, teams or coaches with the capability or resources to develop talent in-house as there once were. Haley Eckerman played in Russia last season.
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Post by volleyguy on Feb 9, 2019 18:55:37 GMT -5
The women's side has seen a much greater decline in money/sponsorships than the men's side. That is one of the reasons they are producing fewer elite players. Someone earlier ranked the Women's leagues but if you were to rank the leagues around the world, what would your top 10 leagues be? (Ex: Russian, Brazilian, Chinese, Turkish, Italian, German, Japanese, Korean, Polish, French) and no....I'm not suggesting these are the top 10....just listing them as an example. There are barely 10 viable women's pro volleyball leagues in the world, so I don't think you should worry too much about qualifying your listing of top leagues. This is how I would answer your question: 1. The CEV Champions League (which is a conglomeration of 56 national volleyball federations in the European sphere: www.cev.eu/CEV-Area/cev.aspx) is the most significant professional women's volleyball experience in the world. From top to bottom, there is no better competition or experience. The national leagues which are feeders for the CL vary widely in terms of top to bottom competitiveness. 2. Italy and Brazil have been consistently good leagues. Japan was traditionally a good league, although with a specific style and focus (but I would not currently place it among the very best.) Turkey and Russia have been extremely strong at times, but also a bit inconsistent or unstable. I view China, and to a lesser degree, Korea, as up and coming leagues, in part because they have gradually become more open to accepting and paying foreign players. 3. I would rank the leagues this way: Italy, Turkey, Brazil, Japan, China, Russia, Poland, Korea, Germany, France and all the rest. Some of these are inter-changeable depending on the position, player or specific level of development.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 9, 2019 19:10:37 GMT -5
I'm compiling a list of all USA players in these various leagues. If anyone knows of a link to a list of updated rosters that is in English that would be awesome. Until then I am just going to scour the internet until I find what I am looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 9, 2019 19:13:49 GMT -5
I just keep seeing various names tossed into the running for NT slots and I am sitting here going...."Who the hell is this?!" So I am attempting to familiarize myself with who is playing where so I can hopefully catch them in action.
Also sounds to me that we should be focusing only on those American players playing abroad as viable prospects for the 2019 NT season. Maybe not focus too heavily on NCAA players until they hop over seas and get some professional experience before granting them potential roster spots.
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Post by ironhammer on Feb 9, 2019 20:52:42 GMT -5
I just keep seeing various names tossed into the running for NT slots and I am sitting here going...."Who the hell is this?!" So I am attempting to familiarize myself with who is playing where so I can hopefully catch them in action. Also sounds to me that we should be focusing only on those American players playing abroad as viable prospects for the 2019 NT season. Maybe not focus too heavily on NCAA players until they hop over seas and get some professional experience before granting them potential roster spots. That is a valid point. I don't care how great you were in the NCAA, playing professional in a top level international league is another whole level above the NCAA. It's not automatic that just because someone was good in the NCAA, they are going to be good as a professional or on the NT.
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Post by ericleo on Feb 9, 2019 21:12:42 GMT -5
I'm compiling a list of all USA players in these various leagues. If anyone knows of a link to a list of updated rosters that is in English that would be awesome. Until then I am just going to scour the internet until I find what I am looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's a list provided by USAV: www.teamusa.org/USA-Volleyball/Features/2018/October/31/Updated-USAV-International-Transfer-List But that's too many names and over 90% of them are people whom I never heard of.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 9, 2019 21:52:39 GMT -5
I'm compiling a list of all USA players in these various leagues. If anyone knows of a link to a list of updated rosters that is in English that would be awesome. Until then I am just going to scour the internet until I find what I am looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Here's a list provided by USAV: www.teamusa.org/USA-Volleyball/Features/2018/October/31/Updated-USAV-International-Transfer-List But that's too many names and over 90% of them are people whom I never heard of. I am really only looking at any players in top teams in the better leagues who are not already in the gym. I am also glancing at young players in beginning leagues especially in the CEV Challenge Cup, CEV Cup and CEV Champions League.
By my counts 69 American players began the CEV process (Champions League, Cup, Challenge Cup) across 36 teams. That's CRAZY.
Now I am certain that many of the one's born between 1994-1996 that are in their first years playing over seas will cease to be playing after a year or two. Still.....looking at the sheer number of American Players playing in Europe alone.....some of them could break out onto the big stage and end up on a top tier team and then might just trickle into the NT gym.
The number above is not taking into account players NOT at part of the Champions League process. There are many more teams in leagues all across Europe who also have young American players just getting started at pro ball.
Asia and Brazil have far fewer American players on their rosters. I have not even looked at NORCECA (Cuba, PR, Dom. Rep, Mexico) though some of our girls might start there but transfer over seas quickly.
After 2020 we could be seeing many of these young faces in the NT gym.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 2:02:29 GMT -5
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 10, 2019 3:45:02 GMT -5
And why don't we at least have a women's domestic league yet? That is an enormous amount of domestic talent scattered everywhere. Also I love that Logan Tom and David Lee are still playing professionally. Karch should just let Logan come back and play libero. There....I said it.
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 10, 2019 3:51:36 GMT -5
TONS of players going to Germany and France. More in Turkey and Italy than I had originally accounted for.
Any names on there come as a surprise? I wish it had their position on there. From the data I have collected there are TONS of middles. At least 1 of every group of American players on any roster was a middle. Plenty of young setting talent too. Only a small number of Liberos. Kristen Tupac (Hahn), Amanda Benson and Carli Kan were the only one's I saw listed as liberos on their teams rosters. Could one of them be the answer to our libero woes?
Some are scary tall and would have been on my list to get into the NT gym.....however they might not vibe with the "low and fast" system we run.
It will be interesting to see how many of these younginz transition out of France and Germany and into some of the top leagues.
Can't wait!
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Post by ToddyJ on Feb 10, 2019 4:00:57 GMT -5
Seem's like the older talent is ageing out or playing in other leagues and the up and coming young domestic talent isn't quite at an elite level. This is why the Russian NT is currently in decline. Any Americans playing in the Russian league? It would be politically problematic for a Russian team to have a high profile American, and probably for the player too. What you are describing is not the cause, but the symptom of the decline in the Russian NT. Money is simply not flowing to the Russian League, in particular the women's side, as it once was, due in large part to the economic and psychological effect of sanctions against Russia. The last two Russian NT coaches were hired as political compromises, and there aren't many, if any, teams or coaches with the capability or resources to develop talent in-house as there once were. Only two Americans (both genders) playing there are Anderson and E. Shoji. Whoa.....not one single female player. Jordan Larson played for Dinamo Kazan up until 2014. Anderson has been with Zenit Kazan for a while now. Shoji is in his first season with Fakel.
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