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Post by stevehorn on Feb 9, 2019 20:13:20 GMT -5
Can't say for sure it was the correct call as per the rules because, as I said, it could have been 7 or 8 or 9 seconds...really not sure. If you have ever officiated, you would know that you do not wish to be the one to determine the outcome of a match....especially an important match that could have easily been decided by the players on the court. It is similar to ensuring that a double hit call when both teams are in the 20's, should be a DEFINITE double hit....not a border line call. Yeah... I bet if I asked any official worth their salt... They would all say... "If I would call it on point one... I'd call it on match point." To admit otherwise speaks to your level of officiating... Not my having officiated a match or not.
I agree with your statement, but what I want to see most in officiating is consistency. Using your statement, I have a feeling in this case that the official wasn't calling it at point one. I doubt this was the first time that a server took more than 8 seconds to serve in that match and I doubt that any of those were called.
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Post by hookshott on Feb 9, 2019 21:22:56 GMT -5
I have seen matches where the serving team took more time than should have been allowed and deliberately threw off the timing and focus of the receiving team. It's rather frustrating when there actually is a rule preventing this, but the ref doesn't enforce it. I don't care if it is 14-13; if a team deliberately delays the serve in order to defocus the receiving team, they should be called on it. (If it's not deliberate, like say the ball is accidentally dropped or something, then I think the ref ought to cut the player a little slack.) This was definitely the case when a player could toss the ball up and not contact it. It became a real negative for the game and became illegal as a result. There is no way this player was doing this deliberately, realizing that an 8 second call would lead to a loss of the match and an end to their season.
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Post by hookshott on Feb 9, 2019 21:25:10 GMT -5
Can't say for sure it was the correct call as per the rules because, as I said, it could have been 7 or 8 or 9 seconds...really not sure. If you have ever officiated, you would know that you do not wish to be the one to determine the outcome of a match....especially an important match that could have easily been decided by the players on the court. It is similar to ensuring that a double hit call when both teams are in the 20's, should be a DEFINITE double hit....not a border line call. Yeah... I bet if I asked any official worth their salt... They would all say... "If I would call it on point one... I'd call it on match point." To admit otherwise speaks to your level of officiating... Not my having officiated a match or not. You might want to check that out with some other officials and get back to me! I also encourage you to get involved in officiating so you can ensure the game, as you see it, is officiated, correctly.
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Post by sevb on Feb 9, 2019 21:29:08 GMT -5
Yeah... I bet if I asked any official worth their salt... They would all say... "If I would call it on point one... I'd call it on match point." To admit otherwise speaks to your level of officiating... Not my having officiated a match or not. You might want to check that out with some other officials and get back to me! I also encourage you to get involved in officiating so you can ensure the game, as you see it, is officiated, correctly. Interesting that you just assume I'm not "involved"... Or that I havent actually had these conversations already... But hey-enjoy making stuff up because it feels like the "right time to call it" while you're up there on the stand... Or better yet... Make sure you pass on the tongue lashing you want to dole out the next time that R1 makes the right call at the wrong time!!
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Post by newenglander on Feb 9, 2019 21:39:31 GMT -5
The play on looks correct to me. Especially since there wasn’t a single player who reacted like the ball was out. The zoomed in shot looks like the ball was behind the antennae, and therefore not crossing the plane of the net out of bounds. Based on the video... play on looks correct to me too. Agreed... the zoomed in look appears to show the ball behind the antenna. "legal, play continues"
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Post by Hawk Attack on Feb 9, 2019 21:57:54 GMT -5
If rules don’t apply on match point then why do we even have them?
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Post by hookshott on Feb 9, 2019 21:59:42 GMT -5
You might want to check that out with some other officials and get back to me! I also encourage you to get involved in officiating so you can ensure the game, as you see it, is officiated, correctly. Interesting that you just assume I'm not "involved"... Or that I havent actually had these conversations already... But hey-enjoy making stuff up because it feels like the "right time to call it" while you're up there on the stand... Or better yet... Make sure you pass on the tongue lashing you want to dole out the next time that R1 makes the right call at the wrong time!! Interesting that the Head Official at that tournament reprimanded that official for that call and they were not given another match. Back to my main point, there is no way a match (especially a close match) should end on an 8 second call unless it was well over 8 seconds. Nobody (neither the players, coaches) feels good about winning or losing a match that way. That is poor officiating.
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Post by trainermch on Feb 9, 2019 22:13:09 GMT -5
Interesting that you just assume I'm not "involved"... Or that I havent actually had these conversations already... But hey-enjoy making stuff up because it feels like the "right time to call it" while you're up there on the stand... Or better yet... Make sure you pass on the tongue lashing you want to dole out the next time that R1 makes the right call at the wrong time!! Interesting that the Head Official at that tournament reprimanded that official for that call and they were not given another match. Back to my main point, there is no way a match (especially a close match) should end on an 8 second call unless it was well over 8 seconds. Nobody (neither the players, coaches) feels good about winning or losing a match that way. That is poor officiating. Bad move on the HO’s part, unless it was to just remove them from the pathway of parental wrath. In a basketball game, on the inbounds pass you get 5 seconds. If they go past the allotted time (and forget to call timeout to avoid the whistle), ITS A TURNOVER. (& fans are already screaming at 5 seconds that it’s 5 seconds.) They’d ride the ref out on a rail for letting it go to 8-9 seconds. There are time limit rules in effect for a reason. I cannot believe how long this has carried on regarding a perfectly good regulation call.
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Post by hookshott on Feb 9, 2019 22:16:40 GMT -5
If rules don’t apply on match point then why do we even have them? There is a difference between the "official call", and the "correct call"! Your job, as an official, is to allow the players to decide the match, not the official. You may notice that double hits are called differently at U14 as opposed to U!8...but the rulebook is the same! Official discretion is part of any game.
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Post by hookshott on Feb 9, 2019 22:22:42 GMT -5
Interesting that the Head Official at that tournament reprimanded that official for that call and they were not given another match. Back to my main point, there is no way a match (especially a close match) should end on an 8 second call unless it was well over 8 seconds. Nobody (neither the players, coaches) feels good about winning or losing a match that way. That is poor officiating. Bad move on the HO’s part, unless it was to just remove them from the pathway of parental wrath. In a basketball game, on the inbounds pass you get 5 seconds. If they go past the allotted time (and forget to call timeout to avoid the whistle), ITS A TURNOVER. (& fans are already screaming at 5 seconds that it’s 5 seconds.) They’d ride the ref out on a rail for letting it go to 8-9 seconds. There are time limit rules in effect for a reason. I cannot believe how long this has carried on regarding a perfectly good regulation call. Not a good analogy. I have also coached high school basketball. Gaining a 5 second call is usually good defence and should definitely be rewarded. I would also be upset, as a coach, if we were not rewarded for this good defence. The receiving team in the volleyball match did nothing to be awarded that match point.
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Post by sevb on Feb 9, 2019 22:23:40 GMT -5
If rules don’t apply on match point then why do we even have them? There is a difference between the "official call", and the "correct call"! Your job, as an official, is to allow the players to decide the match, not the official. You may notice that double hits are called differently at U14 as opposed to U!8...but the rulebook is the same! Official discretion is part of any game. Listen... I'm sorry your daughter blew the 8 second rule, that her coach didn't train her to handle the moment, and that the R1 made the right call... We get it... And I'm thankful the Head Official at the event defended his official from beligrent fans who didn't know if it was an 8 second or 15 second violation... And Lord no... Why in creation would anyone watch a U14 match... Those kids need matching bows, Maui waui between sets, and emotional support chickens because their parents scream "point" on replays...
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Post by Hawk Attack on Feb 9, 2019 22:45:44 GMT -5
If rules don’t apply on match point then why do we even have them? There is a difference between the "official call", and the "correct call"! These should be synonymous. If not... then why even have officials? Why not just have a vote after every point and award it to who the majority decides “earned” it?
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Post by trainermch on Feb 9, 2019 22:46:09 GMT -5
Bad move on the HO’s part, unless it was to just remove them from the pathway of parental wrath. In a basketball game, on the inbounds pass you get 5 seconds. If they go past the allotted time (and forget to call timeout to avoid the whistle), ITS A TURNOVER. (& fans are already screaming at 5 seconds that it’s 5 seconds.) They’d ride the ref out on a rail for letting it go to 8-9 seconds. There are time limit rules in effect for a reason. I cannot believe how long this has carried on regarding a perfectly good regulation call. Not a good analogy. I have also coached high school basketball. Gaining a 5 second call is usually good defence and should definitely be rewarded. I would also be upset, as a coach, if we were not rewarded for this good defence. The receiving team in the volleyball match did nothing to be awarded that match point. *Defense And the receiving team certainly did do their part. They set up in the correct lineup/rotation, ready to receive the serve. Had they not done so, they would have been called for a rules violation and lost the point first.
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Post by vbman100 on Feb 9, 2019 23:26:57 GMT -5
I thought HS rules were 5 seconds to serve? Especially an "important" HS match.
So if it took 8 seconds, then it definitely needed to be called.
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Post by oldman on Feb 10, 2019 8:57:46 GMT -5
If rules don’t apply on match point then why do we even have them? There is a difference between the "official call", and the "correct call"! Your job, as an official, is to allow the players to decide the match, not the official. You may notice that double hits are called differently at U14 as opposed to U!8...but the rulebook is the same! Official discretion is part of any game. The player decide the match when a rule is broken. Good officials call the game that way. Good coaches insist on it. 9 seconds is 9 seconds at point one or point 24.
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