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Post by poorlambourne on Mar 26, 2024 13:40:13 GMT -5
I wonder if there has ever been a team as short as the Bellos, that has had reasonable success on the world stage? They are certainly great players. I remember Bruno and Pedro was the best in the world for a short while. Pedro is not short but even then he was very small for a blocker. Seidl/Waller was a very short team
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Post by stephenasinjin on Mar 26, 2024 13:45:42 GMT -5
They are still a bit inconsistent and they have not much wiggle room. Their average points are a bit inflated with their NORCECA title and could easily drop a bit if they finish with a couple of 9th placed finishes at Challengers (can happen quickly with a bad draw) I'm usually the wet blanket so Ill play my role. The Cuba hype is way out of proportion to what they have done. Its hard to judge because they basically took all of last summer off, but in the events they played in 23 and this one, they are probably about .500 versus Challenge level teams. When they win it looks great, but even this year they got beat in 2 by a lousy Austrian team, beaten by the Bellos and were spanked by Evandro. Thats 1 weak, 1 above average, and 1 very good Challenge team. In their last two FIVB events last year, they were 4-5 with two of the wins coming against non-pros, so really 2-5. All of the 5 losses were to Challenge teams. Go back further its more of the same. All I could think when guest2 said wet blanket. We need Velvet Thunder.
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 14:05:03 GMT -5
I wonder if there has ever been a team as short as the Bellos, that has had reasonable success on the world stage? They are certainly great players. I remember Bruno and Pedro was the best in the world for a short while. Pedro is not short but even then he was very small for a blocker. Seidl/Waller was a very short team Maia, three time Olympian was 5’11” bvbinfo.com/player.asp?ID=439 so that puts him about the same as Javi. Or half an inch smaller. How ever his three time Olympic partner Brenha was listed at 6’4” to that’s about three inches taller than Joaquin. Atm the Bellos are the smallest I can recall . 1. Javi Bellos 5’11.5” + Joaquin 6’1” 2. Seidl 6’3” + Waller 6’1” 3. Maia 5’11” + Brenda 6’4”
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Post by burnabyjo on Mar 26, 2024 15:16:42 GMT -5
also Seidl previously played with Alex Huber who is about 5'10". They played at the Rio Olympics beating Patterson/Gibb in pool play then losing 0-2 to Phil and Nick in round of 16.
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Post by guest2 on Mar 26, 2024 15:44:23 GMT -5
I'm usually the wet blanket so Ill play my role. The Cuba hype is way out of proportion to what they have done. Its hard to judge because they basically took all of last summer off, but in the events they played in 23 and this one, they are probably about .500 versus Challenge level teams. When they win it looks great, but even this year they got beat in 2 by a lousy Austrian team, beaten by the Bellos and were spanked by Evandro. Thats 1 weak, 1 above average, and 1 very good Challenge team. In their last two FIVB events last year, they were 4-5 with two of the wins coming against non-pros, so really 2-5. All of the 5 losses were to Challenge teams. Go back further its more of the same. To take the opposite side, it was likely their first time playing in Asia, besides a long trip they took to Russia last year. First tournament of the year where they got beat in 2 by "Lousy Austrian team" who is actually Swiss Krattiger/Breer. We don't know what their preparation or travel looked like going to Doha for that qualifier but I would think nothing about playing for the Cuban federation is easy. Also, if you simply select their worst events and ignore their best results you could make almost any team look far better or worse than they truly are. Spanked by Evandro sure, but the best server in the world for nearly a decade was crushing every team with his serve? Let me select some of their nice results. At Tlaxcala WCH they beat Perusic/Schweiner who won the event just a few days later. At the Pan am games they beat Andre/George (good team or no?) in pool play, took Smith/Webber for an educational beatdown in the semis, then lost to Andre/George 13-15 in the final. At Itapema challenger last year and only their second event on world tour aside from WCH they beat Crabb/Sander, Pedophile/Immers and then Renato/Vitor before finishing 4th. Also good enough to take a set from Stoya/Leshukov in Russian tour last September. Lost it 21-16 7-21 8-15 ouch... I recall you saying similar stuff about the Bellos last fall after their challenger success, so I expect more solid results from this Cuban team. Maybe not next event in Saquarema, but it could be later in the year. Let's see how they do! When you mention Smith/Webber, Crabb/Sander, and a World Championships pool match in their list of top accomplishments you make my point for me. Also I didn't cherry pick their "worst results" I referred to basically every FIVB event they have played. If someone were saying, "looks like they have a good chance to be a good Challenge team" no issue there, but people are throwing around things like podium contender at Elite level. As for the Bellos, nice event for them, what exactly have they proven? The best team they have beaten in FIVB play in their entire partnership is Treo. (You know the team that is 0-for lifetime in Elite events). As mentioned in another thread there are about 20-30 Challenge level teams, who are all ok, but kind of blah and they just trade wins with one team posting a few strong finishes, then another. Any one of them can make a final and you aren't surprised, but also not surprised when they end up in a Challenge Q after a few weak results. But actually look at the Bellos match record in their nice recent run. Basically playing .500 against non Q teams. Solid, but in their last 5 FIVBs + the CEV they have also lost to Cuba, Spain, Austria 1 and 2, Ukraine, Portugal, Lithuania.
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 15:57:44 GMT -5
Seidl/Waller was a very short team Maia, three time Olympian was 5’11” bvbinfo.com/player.asp?ID=439 so that puts him about the same as Javi. Or half an inch smaller. How ever his three time Olympic partner Brenha was listed at 6’4” to that’s about three inches taller than Joaquin. Atm the Bellos are the smallest I can recall . 1. Javi Bellos 5’11.5” + Joaquin 6’1” 2. Seidl 6’3” + Waller 6’1” 3. Maia 5’11” + Brenda 6’4” EDIT. Javi just sent me their recent height measurements and they are officially smaller than their mum informed me! Javi 180.2cm just under 5’10” and Joaquin 183.9 makes him almost 6’1/2”! He is winning at the smallest blocker stakes. Also the Thai players let me know their height recently and it’s 185/194cm so quite a bit in cms more than the bellos!
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Post by guest2 on Mar 26, 2024 16:09:19 GMT -5
Maia, three time Olympian was 5’11” bvbinfo.com/player.asp?ID=439 so that puts him about the same as Javi. Or half an inch smaller. How ever his three time Olympic partner Brenha was listed at 6’4” to that’s about three inches taller than Joaquin. Atm the Bellos are the smallest I can recall . 1. Javi Bellos 5’11.5” + Joaquin 6’1” 2. Seidl 6’3” + Waller 6’1” 3. Maia 5’11” + Brenda 6’4” EDIT. Javi just sent me their recent height measurements and they are officially smaller than their mum informed me! Javi 180.2cm just under 5’10” and Joaquin 183.9 makes him almost 6’1/2”! He is winning at the smallest blocker stakes. Also the Thai players let me know their height recently and it’s 185/194cm so quite a bit in cms more than the bellos! Are there any other significant players in the England pipeline if they ever decided to make a change?
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 16:16:17 GMT -5
EDIT. Javi just sent me their recent height measurements and they are officially smaller than their mum informed me! Javi 180.2cm just under 5’10” and Joaquin 183.9 makes him almost 6’1/2”! He is winning at the smallest blocker stakes. Also the Thai players let me know their height recently and it’s 185/194cm so quite a bit in cms more than the bellos! Are there any other significant players in the England pipeline if they ever decided to make a change? Batrane and Bialokov are very good. They beat TnT in Cape Town (I think it was) last year in QF. Freddie’s dad is the most capped England and GBr player I believe. Their younger brothers very good too but vertically very similar . We do rely like many small nations on the family connections from generations.
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 16:17:20 GMT -5
Are there any other significant players in the England pipeline if they ever decided to make a change? Batrane and Bialokov are very good. They beat TnT in Cape Town (I think it was) last year in QF. Freddie’s dad is the most capped England and GBr player I believe. Freddie is very tall. Their younger brothers very good too but vertically very similar . We do rely like many small nations on the family connections from generations. But honestly from a fan perspective of someone who’s been watching them since they began on the beach their unity is something money can’t buy. And the depth of that compared to them two years ago is solid.
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Post by ajm on Mar 26, 2024 16:47:22 GMT -5
If someone were saying, "looks like they have a good chance to be a good Challenge team" no issue there, but people are throwing around things like podium contender at Elite level. Taken out of context. My full quote was: "If they regularly trained with and competed against the best teams I think they’d be a consistent podium contender at the Elite 16 level." And I stand by that statement.
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Post by bvbllr on Mar 27, 2024 0:24:53 GMT -5
Seidl/Waller was a very short team Maia, three time Olympian was 5’11” bvbinfo.com/player.asp?ID=439 so that puts him about the same as Javi. Or half an inch smaller. How ever his three time Olympic partner Brenha was listed at 6’4” to that’s about three inches taller than Joaquin. Atm the Bellos are the smallest I can recall . 1. Javi Bellos 5’11.5” + Joaquin 6’1” 2. Seidl 6’3” + Waller 6’1” 3. Maia 5’11” + Brenda 6’4” Huber was even smaller than Waller and he and Seidl made the Olympics (where they beat Patterson/Gibb) in 2016 bvbinfo.org/player.asp?ID=6836
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Post by bvblove on Mar 27, 2024 2:38:59 GMT -5
If someone were saying, "looks like they have a good chance to be a good Challenge team" no issue there, but people are throwing around things like podium contender at Elite level. Taken out of context. My full quote was: "If they regularly trained with and competed against the best teams I think they’d be a consistent podium contender at the Elite 16 level." And I stand by that statement.
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Post by swift on Mar 27, 2024 3:05:28 GMT -5
Baracetti and Conde were only 6'4 and 6'1 and they were world champions at some point. But of course the avarage height back then was a bit smaller than these days. This being said they beat Ricardo (6'7) & Loiola in the finals.
I love to see small teams like the Bellos have success and I enjoy watching them play but I don't think they will ever be able to consistently beat the elite teams. You need to work so much harder when you're undersized. And as a small blocker you will always have a disadvantage no matter how high you jump.
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Post by bvblove on Mar 27, 2024 3:11:38 GMT -5
olympics.com/en/news/british-bello-twins-training-icy-sand-paris-2024-beach-volleyballThis was published this week. I already was a big fan of this team and regardless of their size or what they do in the future they already are the most successful British men’s team in history. Unfortunately, not much else coming from such a big and wealthy country. Batrane/Bialokoz were meant to be next (met them in FL last year) but they are at a much lower level technically and tactically despite Bialokoz height (7ft) an a couple promising (but inconsistent)results. They had a disastrous 2023 season, losing in R1 of qualification in Future events so I cannot see how they’ll come out of there. Some teams just have ‘that magic’ and these guys don’t. According to the beach volley database, there are a couple of other teams here and there, including a younger Bello (who won a bronze medal in futures in Bujumbura last year) but not much else if we consider underage results in their European competitions as a sign. Kirk Pitman (ex coach of Australians Mariafe artacho/Clancy) was brought onboard by the FIVB to help develop the sport in the country and ride on the unique success of the Bello’s but these things take time and money. Next week I’ll look into Italy men’s. Seems oddly quiet with their teams (namely Ranghieri/Carambula) withdrawing last minute…
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Post by robvolei on Mar 27, 2024 3:32:37 GMT -5
Maia, three time Olympian was 5’11” bvbinfo.com/player.asp?ID=439 so that puts him about the same as Javi. Or half an inch smaller. How ever his three time Olympic partner Brenha was listed at 6’4” to that’s about three inches taller than Joaquin. Atm the Bellos are the smallest I can recall . 1. Javi Bellos 5’11.5” + Joaquin 6’1” 2. Seidl 6’3” + Waller 6’1” 3. Maia 5’11” + Brenda 6’4” EDIT. Javi just sent me their recent height measurements and they are officially smaller than their mum informed me! Javi 180.2cm just under 5’10” and Joaquin 183.9 makes him almost 6’1/2”! He is winning at the smallest blocker stakes. Also the Thai players let me know their height recently and it’s 185/194cm so quite a bit in cms more than the bellos! I can believe that. When he stood next to Monika Paulikiene on the podium, he was slightly taller and she's listed as 5'9.
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