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Post by ajm on Apr 10, 2024 18:23:13 GMT -5
It was just the most recent and most obvious example. The reasons could be of any sort (maybe the choice of players?) but the fact that they couldn’t make it work after everything they have thrown at this team and for such a long time, does say something in my opinion Curious timing for anyone to say it failed a week after they won bronze in a Challenger event. Way too early to say they can’t be competitive in Paris.
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Post by robvolei on Apr 10, 2024 23:58:22 GMT -5
Women's NCAA beach volleyball is overrated.
The girls that succeed after playing college ball, succeed because they study the game, train hard, have the right people around them, have goals, natural talent, etc.
Europeans and Brazilians are fine without putting their athletes in college programs. If anything, you want to put athletes in high school beach vb programs to help them excel at beach volleyball.
Nearly all pro USA women play college vb/bvb and only a small % have success at the elite level.
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Post by robvolei on Apr 10, 2024 23:59:41 GMT -5
Anyway, I feel like Cri should break up and play the AVP with different partners.
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Post by poorlambourne on Apr 11, 2024 0:03:39 GMT -5
Women's NCAA beach volleyball is overrated. The girls that succeed after playing college ball, succeed because they study the game, train hard, have the right people around them, have goals, natural talent, etc. Europeans and Brazilians are fine without putting their athletes in college programs. If anything, you want to put athletes in high school beach vb programs to help them excel at beach volleyball. Nearly all pro USA women play college vb/bvb and only a small % have success at the elite level. Ironic given your avatar. Kloth probably never plays beach if NCAA beach wasn't a thing.
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Post by robvolei on Apr 11, 2024 5:18:24 GMT -5
Women's NCAA beach volleyball is overrated. The girls that succeed after playing college ball, succeed because they study the game, train hard, have the right people around them, have goals, natural talent, etc. Europeans and Brazilians are fine without putting their athletes in college programs. If anything, you want to put athletes in high school beach vb programs to help them excel at beach volleyball. Nearly all pro USA women play college vb/bvb and only a small % have success at the elite level. Ironic given your avatar. Kloth probably never plays beach if NCAA beach wasn't a thing. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. It's overrated in developing talent. Taryn is a natural.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 11, 2024 6:27:10 GMT -5
Ironic given your avatar. Kloth probably never plays beach if NCAA beach wasn't a thing. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. It's overrated in developing talent. Taryn is a natural. Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO)
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Post by guest2 on Apr 11, 2024 9:03:09 GMT -5
I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. It's overrated in developing talent. Taryn is a natural. Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO) Not sure you can give NCAA credit for Tina, I recall many saying she was the best player in the college ranks almost from the minute she arrived. Plus if you compare her arc in terms of talent development to players who came up in Europe subsequently or at the same time, like Stam/Schoon or Valentina, what did Tina get from playing NCAA that those others didn't get from their national team setups and playing more FIVB? NCAA has had a huge impact in terms of the number of women that go into the sport IMO which is the benefit of it in my view. And thats a huge benefit. But in terms of talent development for a player who would be a pro whether NCAA existed or not, I'm not as sure. Especially when considered in terms of countries with strong national team programs. When Valentina was 19, she was playing full time FIVB, when Schoon was 17, she was doing the same. Compare that to Sarah Sponcil, who was in high school at 17 and playing NCAA at 19. At UCLA she never moved beyond the second flight and I believe didn't play a real FIVB schedule until she was 21 or 22. From a development perspective, I would probably choose the path of the European ladies. (Other comparisons like Muller v Alvarez might be relevant, or may just reflect different levels of talent). But the US teams dont have a strong national team setup and I am not sure how many can or would move to LA to train seriously if the NCAA didnt exist
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 11, 2024 10:01:29 GMT -5
Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO) Not sure you can give NCAA credit for Tina, I recall many saying she was the best player in the college ranks almost from the minute she arrived. Plus if you compare her arc in terms of talent development to players who came up in Europe subsequently or at the same time, like Stam/Schoon or Valentina, what did Tina get from playing NCAA that those others didn't get from their national team setups and playing more FIVB? NCAA has had a huge impact in terms of the number of women that go into the sport IMO which is the benefit of it in my view. And thats a huge benefit. But in terms of talent development for a player who would be a pro whether NCAA existed or not, I'm not as sure. Especially when considered in terms of countries with strong national team programs. When Valentina was 19, she was playing full time FIVB, when Schoon was 17, she was doing the same. Compare that to Sarah Sponcil, who was in high school at 17 and playing NCAA at 19. At UCLA she never moved beyond the second flight and I believe didn't play a real FIVB schedule until she was 21 or 22. From a development perspective, I would probably choose the path of the European ladies. (Other comparisons like Muller v Alvarez might be relevant, or may just reflect different levels of talent). But the US teams dont have a strong national team setup and I am not sure how many can or would move to LA to train seriously if the NCAA didnt exist Those players were also able to walk into at least a top 3 situation in their country. Where would have SS been in the rankings on the Nat. team in those teen years? and remember the FIVB country quotas were in effect then.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 11, 2024 10:14:20 GMT -5
Not sure you can give NCAA credit for Tina, I recall many saying she was the best player in the college ranks almost from the minute she arrived. Plus if you compare her arc in terms of talent development to players who came up in Europe subsequently or at the same time, like Stam/Schoon or Valentina, what did Tina get from playing NCAA that those others didn't get from their national team setups and playing more FIVB? NCAA has had a huge impact in terms of the number of women that go into the sport IMO which is the benefit of it in my view. And thats a huge benefit. But in terms of talent development for a player who would be a pro whether NCAA existed or not, I'm not as sure. Especially when considered in terms of countries with strong national team programs. When Valentina was 19, she was playing full time FIVB, when Schoon was 17, she was doing the same. Compare that to Sarah Sponcil, who was in high school at 17 and playing NCAA at 19. At UCLA she never moved beyond the second flight and I believe didn't play a real FIVB schedule until she was 21 or 22. From a development perspective, I would probably choose the path of the European ladies. (Other comparisons like Muller v Alvarez might be relevant, or may just reflect different levels of talent). But the US teams dont have a strong national team setup and I am not sure how many can or would move to LA to train seriously if the NCAA didnt exist Those players were also able to walk into at least a top 3 situation in their country. Where would have SS been in the rankings on the Nat. team in those teen years? and remember the FIVB country quotas were in effect then. At 17, nowhere. At 19, if she were training full time? She would have been in heavy demand. Brooke/Summer, Day/Hochevar, etc. were the leading teams on the AVP then, she could have competed with them no problem. One thing we see consistently is that throwing young players into the fire is something the US is way too hesitant about and that consistently works well for other countries (and not just in volleyball).
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 11, 2024 10:47:30 GMT -5
Those players were also able to walk into at least a top 3 situation in their country. Where would have SS been in the rankings on the Nat. team in those teen years? and remember the FIVB country quotas were in effect then. At 17, nowhere. At 19, if she were training full time? She would have been in heavy demand. Brooke/Summer, Day/Hochevar, etc. were the leading teams on the AVP then, she could have competed with them no problem. One thing we see consistently is that throwing young players into the fire is something the US is way too hesitant about and that consistently works well for other countries (and not just in volleyball). I agree about not battle testing the young players. especially on the men's side. I look at the Bello Bros., they weren't very good 2 years ago. You mean to tell me we couldn't have had a pair (or 2) of young committed beach players get to their level? Take Caleb Kwekel, pair him up with a big. Work something out with 1 of the SoCal Univ. for them to basically be "scholarship" players there, backed by USAV and have them full time beach players playing and training against the other teams.
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Post by robvolei on Apr 11, 2024 11:25:27 GMT -5
I'm not saying it shouldn't exist. It's overrated in developing talent. Taryn is a natural. Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO) Tina started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Alvarez started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Moreno started playing FIVB age group events when she was 14 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 13 years old. They played college beach volleyball for their education and the experience. Alvarez/Moreno haven't won any FIVB tournaments yet.
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Post by dunninla3 on Apr 11, 2024 11:47:48 GMT -5
Ironic given your avatar. Kloth probably never plays beach if NCAA beach wasn't a thing. Taryn is a natural. did he really just say that? no words. Geaux TKN anyway.
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Post by dunninla3 on Apr 11, 2024 11:58:26 GMT -5
Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO) Tina started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Alvarez started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Moreno started playing FIVB age group events when she was 14 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 13 years old. They played college beach volleyball for their education and the experience. Alvarez/Moreno haven't won any FIVB tournaments yet. I can see both robvolei and G2's points on this. G2 and I see eye to eye on the fact that the very best in the NCAA, say Claes or Hughes or Sponcil would probably be have progressed quicker by going Pro after one or two years of college, just as NBA teams do it. Esp. Sponcil who agreed to play 2s behind the McTwins to help the program win Natties. And that delayed her growth by at least two years.
Also agree that without NCAA schollies Kloth is not playing Beach at E16 level today. oh, don't forget without Beach schollies we probably don't have Scoles either. Nor would Harward have had a realistic path to her AVP victory with Tina or her FIVB play. Nobody's picking up a Libero from Long Beach St. indoor to go make a pro run with. Also FWIW Cannon would'nt be where she is now without that college experience.
It's a values question. Is a college degree important to an athlete? If finishing college now were not so important, I would have said Tina, Claes, Hughes, Alvarez and Sponcil could have gone pro after two years of college. Then finished up college later if that were important to them.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 11, 2024 13:05:04 GMT -5
Spain and Latvia might disagree with NCAA being over-rated. Canada, Italy and Puerto Rico also using the college system to develop players. I'm probably forgetting a couple too. Taryn has put in the work. Her and Nuss played all the AVPNext events between Jr & Sr years. I mean they played EVERYWHERE not just SoCal or just the big ones. (more players need to do this IMO) Tina started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Alvarez started playing FIVB age group events when she was 16 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 15 years old. Moreno started playing FIVB age group events when she was 14 years old. Played a CEV age group event at 13 years old. They played college beach volleyball for their education and the experience. Alvarez/Moreno haven't won any FIVB tournaments yet. right, they had potential. But their countries may not have been able to develop their beach game. These foreign countries got their players world class coaching and more reps against higher levels than they could have in country.
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