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Post by ineedajob on Nov 21, 2024 22:46:54 GMT -5
TLDR version: The "male commentator" is usually the play-by-play person. It usually isn't the play-by-play person's job to know much about volleyball. The color commentator (usually an ex-player or ex-coach, and usually female) is the one who is supposed to be offering analysis. There is a huge difference in the roles of the person doing play-by-play and the person doing color commentary/analysis. Sports play-by-play is its own field - the person filling that role is not responsible for the knowledge about whatever sport they're covering (including all the rule nuances), as they will often do play-by-play of numerous sports. A volleyball exception to that is Paul Sunderland. To my knowledge, he only does volleyball play-by-play. He also played volleyball, and knows/follows volleyball better than most color commentators. The field of "sports play-by-play" is inherently a male-dominated field, so we're going to hear a lot of males in that role. There are some exceptions. Courtney Lyle is a wonderful example in sports play-by-play that we hear in volleyball, but I don't believe she would ever claim to be a "volleyball expert." I also think she's terrific at calling basketball. Beth Mowins is another well-known example of a female who does sports play-by-play. Their role is not offering knowledge or hardcore analysis of the sport, but to describe the action and then set up and rely on their color commentator for analysis. By no means are play-by-play people above criticism, but they should not be faulted if they don't offer great volleyball analysis. The color commentator is supposed to be the person that offers insight and analysis. This is an area that is severely lacking in volleyball. It is usually an ex-player or ex-coach who should know the ins-and-outs of volleyball, but doesn't. Criticize them for the lack of volleyball knowledge presented in a telecast. Agreed for the most part. I don't know if the issue is that the color commentators don't understand volleyball. If you played or coached volleyball at a high level, you probably understand it pretty well (I'm talking about the analysts that actually have that background, not some rando that works at the student newspaper that you sometimes see in low-level matches). The issue is that many of them are not very good at talking about it in an engaging way. Just looking at the main ESPN voices, Holly McPeak is the one I usually have the fewest complaints about. I don’t agree with her all the time, but she’s usually good. Emily Ehman has polish and talks well, but is pretty useless at explaining what is occurring during a match. I wish Katie George would stop yelling. I’m convinced that Jen Hoffman and Shelby Coppedge are actively trying to make the viewing audience dumber. |
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Post by volleysota on Nov 21, 2024 22:48:34 GMT -5
The other pet peeve for me is the basic rule explanation that people like Paul Sunderland does in every match. "Game is best 3 of 5 sets, each set is to 25 points, win by 2, they switch sides after each game, if there is a 5th set..." and other mind numbing commentary. This stuff doesn't need to be said. When you watch and NFL game or NBA do they ever tell us at the beginning, the game is 4 15minute quarters with a halftime break, if they're tied we go into overtime, etc..." No, they don't. I get why this is annoying to diehard volleyball fans, but the reality is that many casual sports fans might actually need that information. They don't do that in football or basketball because those sports are much more popular and much better understood by casuals than volleyball is. Hopefully, the day will come where women's volleyball is as popular as those sports are, so casuals will already understand the basics when tuning in, but we're still a way's off from that. You're right. While we are all hardcore fans that have a deep knowledge of the game, as networks like BTN and FS1 start to air more volleyball matches, you'll get more casual fans that only know volleyball as either that sport you play at the bar, get drunk and just hit it over... Or the sport where the hot chicks wear the short shorts. So it makes sense that they go over the basics like that as the audience expands. Most casual fans wouldn't know that, and if they play in some bar league, odds are that league has butchered the rules beyond what you'd know as volleyball anyway, which makes getting everyone on the same page important. But, you know, in football games, they actually do go over the overtime format. The main reason? In the NFL it's because the rules seem to be constantly changing, but the overarcing theme is the same - Most people don't know what the heck is going on and need that information. The hardcore fans/watchers of the game will know it and probably feel like their intelligence is being insulted, but your typical rube watching the game would be clueless otherwise. |
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Post by JT on Nov 22, 2024 0:23:39 GMT -5
May be true for the general “obvious” rule, but there is zero reason to explain that the teams change sides after each set (except maybe for the one in the middle of set 5… call it the “overtime exception.”)
There are so many sports where the teams change sides that it would warrant explaining that the teams don’t change sides if that were the rule.
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Post by babybacksets on Nov 22, 2024 0:51:27 GMT -5
When they get players of similar look/ethnicity confused with one another.
Like can you just remember names from the numbers on the jerseys my goodness
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Post by dodger on Nov 22, 2024 8:45:34 GMT -5
TLDR version: The "male commentator" is usually the play-by-play person. It usually isn't the play-by-play person's job to know much about volleyball. The color commentator (usually an ex-player or ex-coach, and usually female) is the one who is supposed to be offering analysis. There is a huge difference in the roles of the person doing play-by-play and the person doing color commentary/analysis. Sports play-by-play is its own field - the person filling that role is not responsible for the knowledge about whatever sport they're covering (including all the rule nuances), as they will often do play-by-play of numerous sports. A volleyball exception to that is Paul Sunderland. To my knowledge, he only does volleyball play-by-play. He also played volleyball, and knows/follows volleyball better than most color commentators. The field of "sports play-by-play" is inherently a male-dominated field, so we're going to hear a lot of males in that role. There are some exceptions. Courtney Lyle is a wonderful example in sports play-by-play that we hear in volleyball, but I don't believe she would ever claim to be a "volleyball expert." I also think she's terrific at calling basketball. Beth Mowins is another well-known example of a female who does sports play-by-play. Their role is not offering knowledge or hardcore analysis of the sport, but to describe the action and then set up and rely on their color commentator for analysis. By no means are play-by-play people above criticism, but they should not be faulted if they don't offer great volleyball analysis. The color commentator is supposed to be the person that offers insight and analysis. This is an area that is severely lacking in volleyball. It is usually an ex-player or ex-coach who should know the ins-and-outs of volleyball, but doesn't. Criticize them for the lack of volleyball knowledge presented in a telecast. Agreed for the most part. I don't know if the issue is that the color commentators don't understand volleyball. If you played or coached volleyball at a high level, you probably understand it pretty well (I'm talking about the analysts that actually have that background, not some rando that works at the student newspaper that you sometimes see in low-level matches). The issue is that many of them are not very good at talking about it in an engaging way. tour quote “a girl digging ball, it hits her left arm and then right arm: so if its one attempt to play the ball that is a judgement call. |
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Post by Floyd R. Turbo on Nov 22, 2024 8:50:36 GMT -5
One time I was doing a high school football game. The press box windows were open and the fans were only a couple feet below me. I was unknowingly butchering a kid's last name (talked to the coach beforehand to go over pronunciations and either he gave me bad information or I just missed it) and during a time out, the kid's dad turned around and gently but firmly told me how to pronounce the name. Happily for me, he had the goodness in his heart to wait until a commercial was playing and I wasn't on the air to give me the correct pronunciation.... That brings back memories. Back years ago when there were a lot more high school games on the radio on Friday nights, I've heard more than one announcer that probably had trouble pronouncing Smith and Jones. I grew up in a town with lots of persons of Polish, German, and Czech lineage. Mike Krzyzewski would have fit right in. It was always hilarious when we went on the road and the small town PA announcers had no idea whatsoever how to pronounce our names. |
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Post by vbman100 on Nov 22, 2024 9:37:37 GMT -5
The other pet peeve for me is the basic rule explanation that people like Paul Sunderland does in every match. "Game is best 3 of 5 sets, each set is to 25 points, win by 2, they switch sides after each game, if there is a 5th set..." and other mind numbing commentary. This stuff doesn't need to be said. When you watch and NFL game or NBA do they ever tell us at the beginning, the game is 4 15minute quarters with a halftime break, if they're tied we go into overtime, etc..." No, they don't. I get why this is annoying to diehard volleyball fans, but the reality is that many casual sports fans might actually need that information. They don't do that in football or basketball because those sports are much more popular and much better understood by casuals than volleyball is. Hopefully, the day will come where women's volleyball is as popular as those sports are, so casuals will already understand the basics when tuning in, but we're still a way's off from that. But they don't do it for softball, lacrosse, cornhole, tennis, etc. I have watched many of these events on ESPN and they do not inform the viewer about it, nor do the announcers talk about it during the game. They treat viewers as someone who is interested in watching and will figure it out. There are more NEW viewers every week to football or basketball then there are to volleyball. They don't tell me what a play-action pass is. They don't tell me what 3 seconds is in basketball. They don't tell me why it was an illegal formation. And I really get mad at volleyball color commentators when they say "what we call", as in what we call a pancake, or what we call a slide, or what we call a 31...is it what we call a fastball or curveball, what we call a slant route, what we call zone defense, what we call serve and volley...they treat it like it is some exclusive club and anyone watching is watching for the first time. |
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Post by vbman100 on Nov 22, 2024 9:46:02 GMT -5
I get why this is annoying to diehard volleyball fans, but the reality is that many casual sports fans might actually need that information. They don't do that in football or basketball because those sports are much more popular and much better understood by casuals than volleyball is. Hopefully, the day will come where women's volleyball is as popular as those sports are, so casuals will already understand the basics when tuning in, but we're still a way's off from that. You're right. While we are all hardcore fans that have a deep knowledge of the game, as networks like BTN and FS1 start to air more volleyball matches, you'll get more casual fans that only know volleyball as either that sport you play at the bar, get drunk and just hit it over... Or the sport where the hot chicks wear the short shorts. So it makes sense that they go over the basics like that as the audience expands. Most casual fans wouldn't know that, and if they play in some bar league, odds are that league has butchered the rules beyond what you'd know as volleyball anyway, which makes getting everyone on the same page important. But, you know, in football games, they actually do go over the overtime format. The main reason? In the NFL it's because the rules seem to be constantly changing, but the overarcing theme is the same - Most people don't know what the heck is going on and need that information. The hardcore fans/watchers of the game will know it and probably feel like their intelligence is being insulted, but your typical rube watching the game would be clueless otherwise. They go over football overtime because it is rare, 10-20 times a year maybe, and their local team may play in 1 of those. And overtime for college is different than HS and NFL. The libero has been around 25 years, 20+ years at many levels. College games to 25, best 3 of 5 has been around for about 15 years or so. Stop talking to everyone like it is their first time watching. Someone has to be telling many of these commentators this, that viewers are novices. But they don't tell them it for lacrosse, or softball, etc. How many innings in a softball game? Why are certain players' sticks longer in lacrosse? If I throw the basketball out of bounds it goes to the other team, but if I shoot it out of bounds in lacrosse, I get the ball back. Why? They never talk about it. They just assume people know or will figure it out. |
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dill
High School
Posts: 11
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Post by dill on Nov 22, 2024 9:52:07 GMT -5
Do we have to hear, "I LOVE IT when she hits the ball straight into the floor (or some other routine play)!" 40 times a match? It adds nothing and is tiresome. I LOVE IT when the color person doesn't do that.
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 22, 2024 9:55:42 GMT -5
I get why this is annoying to diehard volleyball fans, but the reality is that many casual sports fans might actually need that information. They don't do that in football or basketball because those sports are much more popular and much better understood by casuals than volleyball is. Hopefully, the day will come where women's volleyball is as popular as those sports are, so casuals will already understand the basics when tuning in, but we're still a way's off from that. But they don't do it for softball, lacrosse, cornhole, tennis, etc. I have watched many of these events on ESPN and they do not inform the viewer about it, nor do the announcers talk about it during the game. They treat viewers as someone who is interested in watching and will figure it out. People have been watching tennis forever. I have never watched lacrosse, much less cornhole, so I can't comment on that. As for softball, it has so many similarities with baseball that it's pretty easy to pick up. And I think they do explain things that are different (e.g. players re-entering). |
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Post by vbman100 on Nov 22, 2024 10:10:38 GMT -5
But they don't do it for softball, lacrosse, cornhole, tennis, etc. I have watched many of these events on ESPN and they do not inform the viewer about it, nor do the announcers talk about it during the game. They treat viewers as someone who is interested in watching and will figure it out. People have been watching tennis forever. I have never watched lacrosse, much less cornhole, so I can't comment on that. As for softball, it has so many similarities with baseball that it's pretty easy to pick up. And I think they do explain things that are different (e.g. players re-entering). Tennis - Why do you get 15 points for winning one? Why do you get 10 points for a point later? Why is it called Love? Why is it listed as 15-40 or 40-15? I don't think I have ever heard one announcer explain any of these. I have been watching tennis for 35+ years. How many innings in a softball game? 9? Like baseball? What is DP in the lineup? Again, these are not brought up at the top of the broadcast, like sets to 25, best 3 of 5, libero rules, etc. I have watched many softball games on TV. |
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Post by hopefuldawg on Nov 22, 2024 10:22:08 GMT -5
When they get players of similar look/ethnicity confused with one another. Like can you just remember names from the numbers on the jerseys my goodness THIS! How many times have they called Booth "Robinson" and vice-versa? And those are starters on one of the most popular teams. Sometimes the people they confuse don't even look alike, and Sunderland is the only who goes "oops, I was wrong. They wasn't so-and-so, that was what-see-whos-its." They have numbers on their jerseys, front and back. You have a lineup sheet right in front of you with their jersey numbers and names on it. |
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Post by babybacksets on Nov 22, 2024 10:36:24 GMT -5
When they get players of similar look/ethnicity confused with one another. Like can you just remember names from the numbers on the jerseys my goodness THIS! How many times have they called Booth "Robinson" and vice-versa? And those are starters on one of the most popular teams. Sometimes the people they confuse don't even look alike, and Sunderland is the only who goes "oops, I was wrong. They wasn't so-and-so, that was what-see-whos-its." They have numbers on their jerseys, front and back. You have a lineup sheet right in front of you with their jersey numbers and names on it. Exactly, like it comes off as unnecessarily careless, like they couldn’t be bothered to get the name right. It’s not a mistake that should be made if it can be mitigated by just going off the best way to remember. |
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Post by ineedajob on Nov 22, 2024 11:03:09 GMT -5
You're right. While we are all hardcore fans that have a deep knowledge of the game, as networks like BTN and FS1 start to air more volleyball matches, you'll get more casual fans that only know volleyball as either that sport you play at the bar, get drunk and just hit it over... Or the sport where the hot chicks wear the short shorts. So it makes sense that they go over the basics like that as the audience expands. Most casual fans wouldn't know that, and if they play in some bar league, odds are that league has butchered the rules beyond what you'd know as volleyball anyway, which makes getting everyone on the same page important. But, you know, in football games, they actually do go over the overtime format. The main reason? In the NFL it's because the rules seem to be constantly changing, but the overarcing theme is the same - Most people don't know what the heck is going on and need that information. The hardcore fans/watchers of the game will know it and probably feel like their intelligence is being insulted, but your typical rube watching the game would be clueless otherwise. They go over football overtime because it is rare, 10-20 times a year maybe, and their local team may play in 1 of those. And overtime for college is different than HS and NFL. The libero has been around 25 years, 20+ years at many levels. College games to 25, best 3 of 5 has been around for about 15 years or so. Stop talking to everyone like it is their first time watching. Someone has to be telling many of these commentators this, that viewers are novices. But they don't tell them it for lacrosse, or softball, etc. How many innings in a softball game? Why are certain players' sticks longer in lacrosse? If I throw the basketball out of bounds it goes to the other team, but if I shoot it out of bounds in lacrosse, I get the ball back. Why? They never talk about it. They just assume people know or will figure it out. I wish they'd do it for lacrosse. I enjoy watching it, but don't understand much of what I'm watching. |
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 22, 2024 11:05:29 GMT -5
People have been watching tennis forever. I have never watched lacrosse, much less cornhole, so I can't comment on that. As for softball, it has so many similarities with baseball that it's pretty easy to pick up. And I think they do explain things that are different (e.g. players re-entering). Tennis - Why do you get 15 points for winning one? Why do you get 10 points for a point later? Why is it called Love? Why is it listed as 15-40 or 40-15? I don't think I have ever heard one announcer explain any of these. I have been watching tennis for 35+ years. How many innings in a softball game? 9? Like baseball? What is DP in the lineup? Again, these are not brought up at the top of the broadcast, like sets to 25, best 3 of 5, libero rules, etc. I have watched many softball games on TV. As I said, people have watched tennis long enough to understand it. Tennis is a very simple sport anyway from a rules standpoint. Softball has been on ESPN for decades, and like I said, it has a lot of similarities with baseball. Volleyball is a totally different sport and still fairly new to casuals. |
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