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Post by Wolfgang on Oct 9, 2006 15:46:13 GMT -5
Distribution of scholarships is coaches' discretion. It's not unheard of for someone's scholie to be yanked to make way for a "better" player.
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Post by neodesha on Oct 9, 2006 16:11:28 GMT -5
Distribution of scholarships is coaches' discretion. It's not unheard of for someone's scholie to be yanked to make way for a "better" player. True, but it's still bush-league for a program to treat its players like that (note proper use is it's/its).
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Post by BearClause on Oct 9, 2006 16:18:43 GMT -5
I see Cutura and Kaczor is a different light. Cutura is the right age for a freshman. I don't have a problem with her at all from what I can find. So good for Cal. But Kaczor is a whole different story. She's as old as most seniors. Is linked to a pro team in Poland. And comes from a JUCO program with a "questionable" recruiting history. I believe that Kaczor is 21 and she's listed as a junior. That seems about right to me. Born Sept. 16, 1984. That would make her 22 right now. Not all that usual, and not even close to what went down at Murray State. I think Kaczor's bigger problem is the cloud of suspicion from the College of Southern Idaho scandal.
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Post by Keystonekid on Oct 9, 2006 16:36:03 GMT -5
Bearclause, you're right there were a number of school who also recruited Cutura. What you didn't mention is that they stopped recruiting her, also omitted is why they did. I know at least two major programs who while recruting her, concluded along with their compliance departments, that she was not eligible, because she was a professional.
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Post by PukaPants on Oct 9, 2006 16:38:36 GMT -5
Do we know why Kaczor mysteriously lost a year of eligibility when she transfered? She was a freshman at CSI, now she's a jr. at USC.
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Post by BearClause on Oct 9, 2006 16:57:12 GMT -5
Do we know why Kaczor mysteriously lost a year of eligibility when she transfered? She was a freshman at CSI, now she's a jr. at USC. The CSI stats say that she (listed as JoAnna Kaczor) played in 122 of 144 games in 2005. I can't find any box scores though. Sounds like she might have arrived at CSI late due to club or national team commitments, and was dinged for a year of eligibility for doing such just after her 21st birthday. www.dixieathletics.com/swac/volleyba/stats2005/csi.htmAddendum: I'm not sure about the differences between NCAA and JC eligibility rules. The NCAA considers any season played at a JC as a reduction in NCAA eligibility (most junior transfers eligible for two NCAA seasons), in addition to lost eligibility from the 21st birthday rule. I guess CSI considered her a freshman because she was theoretically eligible for another (sophomore) season there. USC considered her a junior because she was theoretically eligible for another (senior) season there.
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Post by roofed! on Oct 9, 2006 16:57:52 GMT -5
I believe that Kaczor is 21 and she's listed as a junior. That seems about right to me. Born Sept. 16, 1984. That would make her 22 right now. Not all that usual, and not even close to what went down at Murray State. I think Kaczor's bigger problem is the cloud of suspicion from the College of Southern Idaho scandal. If I am correct, the scandal at CSI was ironically focused on whether Siemiatkowska was an extra foreign player on scholarship in 2004 season, above and beyond the NJCAA's limit on the number of foreign scholarship players.
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Post by roofed! on Oct 9, 2006 17:00:06 GMT -5
Do we know why Kaczor mysteriously lost a year of eligibility when she transfered? She was a freshman at CSI, now she's a jr. at USC. The CSI stats say that she (listed as JoAnna Kaczor) played in 122 of 144 games in 2005. I can't find any box scores though. Sounds like she might have arrived at CSI late due to club or national team commitments, and was dinged for a year of eligibility for doing such just after her 21st birthday. www.dixieathletics.com/swac/volleyba/stats2005/csi.htmWell, only one player had played 144 games. Aneli Cubi-Otineru played only 123 games, 1 more than Kaczor.
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Post by PukaPants on Oct 9, 2006 17:14:08 GMT -5
www.dixieathletics.com/news.cfm?news_id=885Southern Idaho's coach Ben Stroud admitted he didn't go all the way to Poland to recruit 6-4 JoAnna Kaczor and 6-1 Marta Siemiatkowska. "A couple of Division I schools sent them to me," he confessed. "USC sent me Kaczor, who will be on the Polish Olympic team that goes to Beijing in 2008 and I got Siemiatkowska from the University of Tennessee. I sort of have working relationships with both schools."
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Post by BearClause on Oct 9, 2006 17:22:37 GMT -5
www.dixieathletics.com/news.cfm?news_id=885Southern Idaho's coach Ben Stroud admitted he didn't go all the way to Poland to recruit 6-4 JoAnna Kaczor and 6-1 Marta Siemiatkowska. "A couple of Division I schools sent them to me," he confessed. "USC sent me Kaczor, who will be on the Polish Olympic team that goes to Beijing in 2008 and I got Siemiatkowska from the University of Tennessee. I sort of have working relationships with both schools." I don't think there's anything illegal about that. There's nothing illegal about a college coach recommending a junior club team either. My guess is that he's probably regretting it now that he's out of a job.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Oct 9, 2006 17:42:27 GMT -5
I'm guessing that Dave Shoji sent to Aneli to CSI, as well.
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Post by PukaPants on Oct 9, 2006 17:47:56 GMT -5
Not true. Aneli's parents hopped online as soon as they found out that Aneli wasn't eligible to play at UH and found CSI, showed her the information they gathered and Aneli called Stroud.
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Post by beachman on Oct 9, 2006 20:02:19 GMT -5
I think that is the issue and as you (and several others who are familiar with the European club system) pointed out, that means all European players naturally suspected of fall under the "pro" classification. Many of the top teams have several European players including Hawaii (Gustin and other MBs), LBSU (German gals). Even though Stalls' amateur status is protected, she did spent more than a year training alongside professionals at OTC and in Japan, and receiving training that Rubio would term as "above those for the typical freshmen and sophomores". Yeah, I thought Stalls did train w/ the pros in Japan. And what about this current MB for the 49ers? Does she check out clean? Well, I don't know if the NCAA is going to crack down on this kind of stuff. Many many teams would be affected. Probably a lot of the teams you guys root for (except for Stanford because they always have their pick of the best American recruits). I hope they don't make a fuss. Not just because I'm a USC fan, but because I like seeing these high-level international players. And I like that our college players get to face tougher competition as a result. Anyhow, Rubio is notorious for being a big whiner. Arizona massively underachieved in the last four years. Whether Rubio is a whiner or not is not the issue......Mick is a cheater, period....and U$C always pushes things beyong their legal limits....their compliance people are a joke!
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Post by Murina on Oct 9, 2006 20:52:59 GMT -5
What, exactly, is your problem with the current definition of a professional team? How would you change it? I have a lot of problems with the NCAA on this front. 1) They refuse to acknowlege the obvious: that NCAA sports are professional themselves (at least those that use athletic scholarships). 2) It is mostly applied against foreigners. There are plenty of cases of American kids in youth sports receiving similar benefits that foreign kids get, but the foreign kids are called "pro's" and the Americans are not. Nobody wants to take the oppertunity from American kids, which I understand. 3) The rules as written are almost, if not completely, unenforceable. _________________________________________________ I contend the above are facts. My opinions are below. My opinions relate to volleyball only, although I realize that most NCAA rules cover many sports. Not strictly dealing with professionalism either 1) I can't understand people whining about the age of players! 20 year olds kick the crap out of 28 year olds every day around the world. In general I think that playing with and against older players helps younger players to improve quicker. On the other hand, I would argue that Tomosevic (and those like her) didn't dominate the NCAA the way that Logan Tom, Kerri Walsh, Kim Willoughby, Kristin Folkl, etc. did. 2) I don't think the NCAA should have to be one's FIRST professional experience (which is essentially what they are doing now). I would like to see an NCAA where anyone who was upholding the academic end, and was willing to play for a scholarship would be eligible for 4-5 years. Older people usually have to support themselves (and families) and there won't be to many 30 year olds who are willing to play for a scholarship anyway. There are no age limits to be admitted to the academic part of a university. Should we cry about a few 30+ year old 'returning students' taking the place of 18 year olds in the freshman class? 3) Kaczor and Cutera, for exaple, in my opinion are "pros" by the NCAA rules (I can't, and have no interest in proving it though). However, the reality is that they are probably making far more money with their scholarship than they were making playing in Europe (especially when you consider USC being a private school, and Cutera costing international rates at Cal). It could very well be true if they were only costing "in state" tuition at a public school. NCAA scholarship athletes are, in many if not most cases, more professional than their "professional" foreign counterpart!!! 4) On a similar note, it bothers me that a 16 year old foreign kid is ineligible the moment the club gives her $200-$300 a month and is listed on a roster with older players is ineligible to play NCAA. In America there are kids who's clubs look the other way when dues are not paid, because it is the best player on the team. These kids may in effect gain a larger $ benefit than the foreign kid (albeit in a different way) but don't have to be subjected to "professional" status. Furthermore their teammates (who according to strict interpretation of NCAA rules played with a professional) are not subjected to that status either. There's a start ;D
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 9, 2006 21:13:06 GMT -5
Funny, the NCAA is much like the United Nations...it creates rules and regulations, but lacks the balls to enforce said rules and regulations.It's a shame the NCAA allows cheaters like Haley to twist its bylaws in order to gain an advantage. It's no wonder the PAC 10 has won so many championships...it's the only conference that refuses to play by the rules!
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