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Post by star035 on Feb 14, 2006 17:42:32 GMT -5
Regardless, i see the expansion of the championship into 8 teams good for two reasons 1- more teams in the playoffs 2- a DIII school having this chance will REALLY help their recruiting and could make those teams really competitive. "Hey come to our school, if we win our conference, we get to go to the Dance " ...and get eliminated in the first round. That's not the point! Again, look at basketball (or as I've seen it in NCAA soccer). Appearances in the tournament are meaningful. But that's a good point about D III. I've heard they were moving close to having enough schools for their own tournament. I can see how they'd resist getting rolled into the D I show.
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Post by rocky_too on Feb 14, 2006 17:47:23 GMT -5
Appearances in the tournament are meaningful. Especially for coaches that have an incentive clause in their contracts that rewards them if they make it to the tournament.
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on Feb 14, 2006 17:54:53 GMT -5
Especially for coaches that have an incentive clause in their contracts that rewards them if they make it to the tournament. You should take the time to peruse all of the DIII school links (those who even have an active web site) at www.middlehitter.com. I think you will quickly learn that contract incentives are not an issue at these schools. Issues such as money for travel, recruiting and someone to write up a quick press release would be nice, much less an incentive for getting to the big dance!
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Post by volleydog on Feb 14, 2006 18:50:22 GMT -5
So if other DIII schools organize themselves into conferences, how many AQ's do they get? Why would this one conf. be singled out as the one DIII to get an AQ?
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on Feb 14, 2006 19:24:45 GMT -5
So if other DIII schools organize themselves into conferences, how many AQ's do they get? Why would this one conf. be singled out as the one DIII to get an AQ? Of all of this, this is the most interesting question. For example, should EIVA break up into two conferences instead of having three divisions within one conference?
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Post by NobodySpecial on Feb 14, 2006 20:18:41 GMT -5
So if other DIII schools organize themselves into conferences, how many AQ's do they get? Why would this one conf. be singled out as the one DIII to get an AQ? Of all of this, this is the most interesting question. For example, should EIVA break up into two conferences instead of having three divisions within one conference? The EIVA only has two divisions right now - Tait and Sweeney. Last year there was three divisions, but the Hay and Sweeney merged for 2006.
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Post by VBallObserver on Feb 14, 2006 23:16:36 GMT -5
Finally, a thought provoking topic that seems to be generating serious discussion (as much as I enjoy the east coast/west coast bashing to apoint) I'm a parent of two volleyball players. One is a D1 player in the MPSF, the other is a HS jr who is hoping there is a spot somewhere for him to play in a couple of years. We live on the east side of our great country. Although it seems odd that a D3 school could get an automatic bid to the NCAAs, the underlying story is a bigger issue than that. If the D3 schools didn't exist and weren't (theorectically) allowed in the NCAAs now, there would be no NCAAs. There is a minimum number of D1 schools required in a sport to allow for an NCAA championship in the first place. If you add all the D1 and D2 schools together you don't reach that number which I believe is north of 50. By adding the D3 schools into the picture the total surpasses the threshold and we have a championship. So as much as you D3 bashers want to trash the east coast D3 schools you need them! In reading this board, it strikes me that many west coast fans would be content to just keep VB out west and confined to the MPSF schools because heck they're the only ones who can play. I love the pride exhibited, but the exclusive attitude is what may kill VB as a D1 sport. Unfortunately the growth in the sport seems to be at the D3 level, and most of the D3 schools are out east. The bottom line is that we have to promote the sport nationwide. California has great volleyball, but other states are beginning to gain ground. That should not be a reason for all the east coast bashing west coasters to be afraid and protective. It should be celebrated. Our state has over 100 HS teams and a state championship series going into its 4th sanctioned year. It has sent talent recently all across the country inc the MPSF. However there is not one D1, D2 or D3 team in the whole state...or anywhere close for that matter. If it takes forming 8 team conferences to get automatic bids forcing more teams into an NCAA playoff then let's do it. How do you think the NCAA expanded from 32 teams to 64? Imagine how great it would be to have a 16 team VB playoff! Visibility, ESPN, growth...all good things. Yeah the first round might weed out the weaker teams right away...but after awhile we will start to see the gonzagas and valpos popping up and knocking off the big boys. Great...more visibility, more ESPN, more growth. It becomes self perpetuating and who knows maybe VB becomes the "legitimate" we know it is. And maybe kids in the future like my second son (who, although very talented, won't play D1 because he is only a 6'2 OH) will have more opportunities because there will be more D1 teams to spread all the talent.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 2:57:16 GMT -5
...and get eliminated in the first round. That's not the point! Again, look at basketball (or as I've seen it in NCAA soccer). Appearances in the tournament are meaningful. But that's a good point about D III. I've heard they were moving close to having enough schools for their own tournament. I can see how they'd resist getting rolled into the D I show. The last count was around 44 plus there will be another next year added to NECVA: MPSF DIII: 1 US Santa Cruz MIVA DIII: 2 Carthage 3 Mil. School of Eng. 4 Clarke East: (the bulk of it) NECVA (Schools by) CUNY 5 Baruch 6 Brooklyn Collge 7 York College (NY) 8 Lehman College 9 City Tech 10 Hunter 11 Medgar Evers 12 CCNY (City College of NY) Metro Division 13 Steven's Tech 14 Ramapo 15 Bard 16 SUNY-New Paltz 17 New Jersey City University 18 College of Mount Saint Vincent 19 Yeshiva University 20 Polytechnic University (NY) Western 21 Medaille 22 D'Youville 23 Eastern Mennonite 24 Baptist Bible 25 Philadelphia Bible 26 Villa Julie 27 Nazareth 28 Hilbert New England 29 Elm 30 Emmanuel 31 Mount Ida 32 Newbury 33 M I T 34 Wentworth INsitute 35 Johnson & Wales 36 Endicott 37 Rivier 38 Lasalle 39 Lesley 40 Southern Vermont EIVA DIII's: 41 Juniata 42 NYU 43 Springfield 44 Vassar The NCAA is askiing DIII to have 50 teams for two years to they can get a D3 Championship. There aren't that many D1/2 schools yet they have a champioship. 32 to be exaxt with the lost of Queens College this season. Where is the fairness. D3 keeps growing with no reward and the D1's get a championship losing programs.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 2:58:25 GMT -5
Appearances in the tournament are meaningful. Especially for coaches that have an incentive clause in their contracts that rewards them if they make it to the tournament. No insentives. Most D3 coahes are parttimers. I get very little ofr coaching....Bellow $4000.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 3:02:19 GMT -5
Finally, a thought provoking topic that seems to be generating serious discussion (as much as I enjoy the east coast/west coast bashing to apoint) I'm a parent of two volleyball players. One is a D1 player in the MPSF, the other is a HS jr who is hoping there is a spot somewhere for him to play in a couple of years. We live on the east side of our great country. Although it seems odd that a D3 school could get an automatic bid to the NCAAs, the underlying story is a bigger issue than that. If the D3 schools didn't exist and weren't (theorectically) allowed in the NCAAs now, there would be no NCAAs. There is a minimum number of D1 schools required in a sport to allow for an NCAA championship in the first place. If you add all the D1 and D2 schools together you don't reach that number which I believe is north of 50. By adding the D3 schools into the picture the total surpasses the threshold and we have a championship. So as much as you D3 bashers want to trash the east coast D3 schools you need them! In reading this board, it strikes me that many west coast fans would be content to just keep VB out west and confined to the MPSF schools because heck they're the only ones who can play. I love the pride exhibited, but the exclusive attitude is what may kill VB as a D1 sport. Unfortunately the growth in the sport seems to be at the D3 level, and most of the D3 schools are out east. The bottom line is that we have to promote the sport nationwide. California has great volleyball, but other states are beginning to gain ground. That should not be a reason for all the east coast bashing west coasters to be afraid and protective. It should be celebrated. Our state has over 100 HS teams and a state championship series going into its 4th sanctioned year. It has sent talent recently all across the country inc the MPSF. However there is not one D1, D2 or D3 team in the whole state...or anywhere close for that matter. If it takes forming 8 team conferences to get automatic bids forcing more teams into an NCAA playoff then let's do it. How do you think the NCAA expanded from 32 teams to 64? Imagine how great it would be to have a 16 team VB playoff! Visibility, ESPN, growth...all good things. Yeah the first round might weed out the weaker teams right away...but after awhile we will start to see the gonzagas and valpos popping up and knocking off the big boys. Great...more visibility, more ESPN, more growth. It becomes self perpetuating and who knows maybe VB becomes the "legitimate" we know it is. And maybe kids in the future like my second son (who, although very talented, won't play D1 because he is only a 6'2 OH) will have more opportunities because there will be more D1 teams to spread all the talent. [/quote] THANK YOU!!! ANOTHER VOICE OF REASON.....
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Post by newburyvball on Feb 15, 2006 8:59:52 GMT -5
New team, most likely in New England next year will be Green Mountain College in Vermont.
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Post by newburyvball on Feb 15, 2006 9:02:16 GMT -5
Actually 46 active D3 teams as SUNY Purchase has a team.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 9:15:03 GMT -5
Why would you assume an anonymous poster has better information than a poster who has a real name? Whether it happens or not, it is obvious that NYC Tech Coach believes it. He uses his real name and posts the information. If you just wanted to start BS rumor, you would hide behind a anonymous member name like the rest of us. OK, so if I log in as UCLAvbCoach, then that makes me Al Scates, right? What am I missing here? My name is Agnew Patrick Dietz, I go by Patrick. I am the Head coach of both the women's and men's volleyball programs at the New York City College of Technology. I was hired two weeks before the women's season started. NO recruits, no team. I made it happen and the team won more games this past season than the program did in its two previous combined. Before Tech I was the head coach at the College of Mount St. Vincent, also here in New York. MSV was a Nationally Ranked DIII men's program. I coached at the Mount as the head men's coach for three seasons. I had the pleasure of coaching a two time All American, Phil Gallagher. I played at City Tech. In 1999 and 2000 the first two years of the program and the first time City Tech was a NCAA school. I also coached at Bloomfield College a DII women's volleyball program. Those are my coaching credentials. I've been coaching for six (6) years. Two of those as an assistant. I also happen to be on the AVCA DIII Coaches Poll. I do the voting for the poll along with many other coaches. You can look all this up. Plus the Ultimate proof, I'm on the CUNY Games Commitee. The governing body of fair play and rules compliance for men's volleyball for the CUNYAC. If you want to ask me anything else my email is : pdietz@citytech.cuny.edu or patrickdietzmsv@yahoo.com or pdietz9outside@hotmail.com or pdietz9@collegeclub.com. If you want to know what I look like you can find me, like you can find most people now a days, on myspace at www.myspace.com/apdietz. However, you're right though......I'm not Al Scates. But then again, who is?
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 9:17:01 GMT -5
Actually 46 active D3 teams as SUNY Purchase has a team. keep forgetting them because their not in any group...they are the ultimate independant.
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Post by CityTechLegend on Feb 15, 2006 9:43:10 GMT -5
So, if another conference puts some men's volleyball teams together, can they have an automatic berth into the tournament? Possible, Juniata and Steven's Tech are getting together with other colleges to forma new conference (yuo can get this info off both school website, maybe archived). Stevens Head Coach Patrick Dorywalski, and Juniata head coach Ken Shibuya, have a great pull and may be able to convince these schools to start programs. It also happens that these schools have the money to start a program and be successfull almost immediately. Some of the schools are Carnegie Melon, and Rensselar (hope I spelled that right). So if this happens we might not even have this conversation in two years. Ther WILL be a DIII Championship. But Then where does that put the DI championship? there won't be enough teams to field an 8 team tournament. There are only 32 NCAA DI/II teams. What happens to the Dance, if there are no dancers?
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