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Post by Not Me on May 4, 2015 17:08:55 GMT -5
people blindly follow without thinking about the why and if it's actually what's best for their team. 100% true. And that goes for every school of thought out there. People go to the Art of Coaching and start doing things just because Russ Rose teaches it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 21:52:59 GMT -5
people blindly follow without thinking about the why and if it's actually what's best for their team. 100% true. And that goes for every school of thought out there. People go to the Art of Coaching and start doing things just because Russ Rose teaches it. I think this article sums it up well. avcavolleyball.blogspot.com/2012/02/getting-it-right-part-iii.html |
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Post by joetrinsey on May 5, 2015 9:47:50 GMT -5
I never liked the "Pakistani Chop Serve" story and always thought it was possibly apocryphal.
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Post by s0uthie on May 5, 2015 9:57:47 GMT -5
Question everything. Support your decisions with experimentation and data. That does sound familiar, Coach Hebert.
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Post by oshkoshdadmjs on May 5, 2015 12:41:49 GMT -5
This may ruffle some feathers, but since it's being discussed I just wanted to get some opinions.
Obviously the big trend in volleyball (and a lot of other sports) is heavy statistical analysis. I was just wondering if anyone else is as quasi-skeptical as I am about the use of statistics is volleyball to the extent they're used in baseball. My personal take is that baseball is clearly the best for using statistics because 1) the sample size is so large, and; 2) the statistics are telling because its just hitter vs. pitcher, no one else.
Volleyball seems different because of the team element. A bad swing could result from so many different factors (bad set, bad pass forces a bad set, bad block forces a defensive shift and a dig way off the net which creates a bad set, easy/bad serve which creates a bad block which forces a defensive shift and a dig way off the net which creates a bad set, etc.). Inherently, isn't this nearly impossible to get cogent statistics?
I know a lot of the people on here are very well versed in the subject so I figured I could get a good explanation.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 12:55:57 GMT -5
This may ruffle some feathers, but since it's being discussed I just wanted to get some opinions. Obviously the big trend in volleyball (and a lot of other sports) is heavy statistical analysis. I was just wondering if anyone else is as quasi-skeptical as I am about the use of statistics is volleyball to the extent they're used in baseball. My personal take is that baseball is clearly the best for using statistics because 1) the sample size is so large, and; 2) the statistics are telling because its just hitter vs. pitcher, no one else. Volleyball seems different because of the team element. A bad swing could result from so many different factors (bad set, bad pass forces a bad set, bad block forces a defensive shift and a dig way off the net which creates a bad set, easy/bad serve which creates a bad block which forces a defensive shift and a dig way off the net which creates a bad set, etc.). Inherently, isn't this nearly impossible to get cogent statistics? I know a lot of the people on here are very well versed in the subject so I figured I could get a good explanation. In the very limited research I've done and also considering the extensive research I've read from others, most (good) studies take into account as many reasonable, relevant factors as possible. There are also some things that are true regardless of how extensive a study may be, such as the better we pass the better chance we have to win (and the reciprocal). In your cited scenario, volleyball researchers search for "why are we getting a bad swing" and try to identify the preceding factors, many of which you list. I wouldn't consider it to be impossible to obtain cogent statistics. Rather, I would say it means the research has to be more extensive, and I think that is a good thing. |
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Post by joetrinsey on May 5, 2015 18:55:17 GMT -5
Volleyball has a lot of discrete states. Generally, a dig and/or block attempt is linked to an attack attempt, which is linked to a set, which is linked to a pass, which is linked to a serve.
So, while you need to take some things into account, some elements are much easier to analyze than a sport like soccer or basketball. Maybe not as easy as baseball, but there's a lot of things you can do. And, while some things are small sample size, it's not uncommon for a hitter to rack up 1000+ attempts, not uncommon for a blocker to make 1000+ attempts to block a ball, not uncommon for a digger to have 1000+ attempts to dig a ball... so there are some things where you can collect quite a bit of data.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 12:06:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 13:23:32 GMT -5
I would argue that all the drills where the players did not understand what they were supposed to be taking away from the drills, were poorly executed. Whether they are good drills or not becomes irrelevant when the players are not taught their purpose. If you want something to be effective, you should explain to the audience (many times) what you expect them to take away from each drill.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 14:48:12 GMT -5
I would argue that all the drills where the players did not understand what they were supposed to be taking away from the drills, were poorly executed. Whether they are good drills or not becomes irrelevant when the players are not taught their purpose. If you want something to be effective, you should explain to the audience (many times) what you expect them to take away from each drill. This one was previously mentioned and is explained clearly in the video as to its purpose. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 15:42:05 GMT -5
I would argue that all the drills where the players did not understand what they were supposed to be taking away from the drills, were poorly executed. Whether they are good drills or not becomes irrelevant when the players are not taught their purpose. If you want something to be effective, you should explain to the audience (many times) what you expect them to take away from each drill. This one was previously mentioned and is explained clearly in the video as to its purpose. Perhaps I am stupid, so please help me understand. I listened to the whole video. I did not hear him tell the players nor the audience the purpose of the drill. If you would humor me, could you tell me where he did that? Or type it out? Useless drill, with no development purpose, in my opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 16:04:58 GMT -5
This one was previously mentioned and is explained clearly in the video as to its purpose. Perhaps I am stupid, so please help me understand. I listened to the whole video. I did not hear him tell the players nor the audience the purpose of the drill. If you would humor me, could you tell me where he did that? Or type it out? Useless drill, with no development purpose, in my opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 16:18:43 GMT -5
Yes, it is french. But, after all this time, I accept that a certain percentage (try 75%) of people cannot read and the way they pronounce it speaks more about them than me  |
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Post by 642fiddi on May 12, 2015 16:32:13 GMT -5
I would argue that all the drills where the players did not understand what they were supposed to be taking away from the drills, were poorly executed. Whether they are good drills or not becomes irrelevant when the players are not taught their purpose. If you want something to be effective, you should explain to the audience (many times) what you expect them to take away from each drill. This one was previously mentioned and is explained clearly in the video as to its purpose. This one has the curtain over the net drill beat hands down. In fact I'm changing the curtain drill to "The Bloody Curtain" drill.
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Post by vbman100 on May 13, 2015 6:57:27 GMT -5
This one was previously mentioned and is explained clearly in the video as to its purpose. This one has the curtain over the net drill beat hands down. In fact I'm changing the curtain drill to "The Bloody Curtain" drill.
I was at a coaching clinic a few years ago where John Kessel was going to be presenting later that day. One of the coaches speaking in the morning (a HS coach with a generally successful team, by W-L standards) used this game as part of her presentation with her team. Kessel walked out of the gym. I just laughed and wondered what I was paying for. |
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