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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 14:19:35 GMT -5
Post by haze on Jul 18, 2015 14:19:35 GMT -5
I know your example was with the women's side, but the Men's AVP qualifier is stronger than the NVL's main draw. Teams like the McKibbins, Burik/Toppel, Loomis/McColloch, Bomgrens (in the New Orleans quali), and others would likely be favorites to win an NVL event yet struggle just to get into an AVP main..... I do think that there is some very talented players on the NVL, and anything could happen in one match but I just don't think there is any comparison overall. I disagree with that. They could certainly win an NVL event, just like a handful of the NV teams right now as well. But I think they are interchangeable with the top NVL teams. You could make an argument they may be just a little better, but certainly not significantly better.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 14:54:39 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 18, 2015 14:54:39 GMT -5
I know your example was with the women's side, but the Men's AVP qualifier is stronger than the NVL's main draw. Teams like the McKibbins, Burik/Toppel, Loomis/McColloch, Bomgrens (in the New Orleans quali), and others would likely be favorites to win an NVL event yet struggle just to get into an AVP main..... I do think that there is some very talented players on the NVL, and anything could happen in one match but I just don't think there is any comparison overall. I disagree with that. They could certainly win an NVL event, just like a handful of the NV teams right now as well. But I think they are interchangeable with the top NVL teams. You could make an argument they may be just a little better, but certainly not significantly better. The teams named are not better than NVL's top players. If forced, I would probably bet on the NVL's top guys over those (except maybe the Bomgrens.) Mike DiPierro is getting close to how he used to play when he was a better player than anyone on that list. Mark Williams won an AVP, the Puerto Ricans are solid and finished ahead of a couple of the AVP teams at the last NORCECA. I'd take Marciniak over Toppel. Loomis is the exception but he is only in the qualifier because he hasnt played in years. The top 6 AVP mens teams this week would be heavy favorites to win the NVL, after that, I wouldnt put any of those teams at better than even money against the field in an average NVL.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 14:54:52 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 18, 2015 14:54:52 GMT -5
NICOLE BRANAGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 15:06:00 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 18, 2015 15:06:00 GMT -5
Maybe should have checked the NVLs semis results before making my last argument. DiPierro needs to dump Mesko. Would love to see Mike and Piotr
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Post by tinman2 on Jul 18, 2015 15:27:25 GMT -5
1/2 the teams finishing 17th in AVP this week could have won the NVL. Almost all of the 13th and 9th place finishers would be favored to win...
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 16:01:50 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 18, 2015 16:01:50 GMT -5
1/2 the teams finishing 17th in AVP this week could have won the NVL. All of the 13th and 9th place finishers would be favored to win... Favored or the favorite? Its a big difference. Serena was favored to win, whereas Jordan Spieth was the favorite but not favored. Todd and Casey would have been favored to win. Hudson too As for the others: Ratledge has played 12 AVPs in the last 3 years and gotten 9th once. In that time he has finished higher than 9th once. Maybe the favorite, definitely not favored. Paulis has played 3 NVLs the past year and finished 25th, 21st and 13th. He would be favored to win? Seriously? Because his partner has a previous career high of 17th? This team would not be in the top 5 seeds on the NVL much less favored. Crabb/Mclaghlin - This is easy because they played an NVL player in the New Orleans AVP qualifier. They lost. That NVL player, Kevin Lynch has played 3 NVLs this year with a high finish of 13th. No basis whatsoever for saying Crabb/Mcglaghlin would win the NVL and strong evidence they would not. Cabbage/Moran - John Moran is 40 years old and even a few years ago he was playing at roughly the same level as the NVL guys (in 2013 for example he lost to Hinchey/Vandenburg and Mark William in an NVL and beat Justin Phipps in 3.) No basis at all for saying he is better than the NVL guys and at their peaks, several NVL players (DiPierro and Williams for example, were much better than Moran, none of those three are at their peaks now.) The McKibbens have no record so its hard to compare them, but this was their first tourney in 3 years and they weren't that good 3 years ago. Almost certainly a fluke. Most of the 9th place teams would have been favored to win the NVL, but none of the 13th place teams would have been and one of the 9th place teams wouldn't be a top 5 seed. The AVP is superior, but outside of the top 6 teams, not much better.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 16:28:44 GMT -5
Post by tinman2 on Jul 18, 2015 16:28:44 GMT -5
Well you put much more effort into that then I did, but you made some good points. Serena wasn't the favorite at Wimbledon? Vegas might have had it otherwise. In any event. You could be right about the 13's on the AVP. I don't even know some of those guys. But if most of the 9th place teams on the AVP would be favored to win the NVL then I think the AVP is easily superior past the top 6 teams. I guess your argument is that the best team on the NVL could possibly pull a 7th on the AVP. How would the NVL teams outside of the top 4 do on the AVP?
9th place teams on the AVP should win the NVL, but 9th place NVL teams probably couldn't qualify to get into an AVP...
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 17:18:43 GMT -5
Post by haze on Jul 18, 2015 17:18:43 GMT -5
Ty Tramblie is in the semi finals. I saw him play in Vail earlier this year and he wasn't any better than some of the local colorado boys and he didn't even win that tournament playing with Jon Mesko.
I don't think anyone is really comparing the 2 in terms of talent because everyone knows the top level AVP teams are far and away better, but the intial argument was teams outside the top AVP teams being far and away better than all of the NVL, which I don't believe for 1 second. SOmoeone even said the qualifier teams would win the NVL - and there are qualifier teams that have to go through the NVL qualifier as well.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 17:29:58 GMT -5
Post by digdugg on Jul 18, 2015 17:29:58 GMT -5
Class/Hughes. WOW. They destroyed Fopma/Ross. Might be the third or fourth best team in U.S. women's beach volleyball right now. Maybe just a diary day but these two girls look poised at 19 and 20 to be the now and the future. Both have size. 6'2 and 5'10. Prob well known in Cali but seeing them for first time as an east coaster...
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Post by digdugg on Jul 18, 2015 17:59:40 GMT -5
kolinski/drost. I like the potential of this partnership. Watered down avp event but they look good. drost is just going to get better and more comfortable as a full time defender and kolinski is coming into his own as a blocker. Both are 28.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 18:01:02 GMT -5
Post by tinman2 on Jul 18, 2015 18:01:02 GMT -5
Ty Tramblie is in the semi finals. I saw him play in Vail earlier this year and he wasn't any better than some of the local colorado boys and he didn't even win that tournament playing with Jon Mesko. I don't think anyone is really comparing the 2 in terms of talent because everyone knows the top level AVP teams are far and away better, but the intial argument was teams outside the top AVP teams being far and away better than all of the NVL, which I don't believe for 1 second. SOmoeone even said the qualifier teams would win the NVL - and there are qualifier teams that have to go through the NVL qualifier as well. Tramblie played two NVL events in 2011 when there was no AVP and a lot of AVPers were playing NVL. In his two tournaments he beat current NVL players Drew Malin, Matt Henderson, and Justin Phipps. He also beat AVPers Adrian Carambula and Steve Grotowski. Tramblie's only losses on the NVL were to AVP players Sean Scott/John Hyden, Jesse Rambis/Kevin Wong, and Brady Halverson/Adam Roberts. Yes, there are some top AVP teams missing this week, but Tramblie is in fact better than your local Colorado boys and he's playing with a pretty good partner this week.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 18:06:14 GMT -5
Post by tinman2 on Jul 18, 2015 18:06:14 GMT -5
NVL champions this week had all time highest finishes on the AVP of 17th and 41st....
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 18:15:28 GMT -5
Post by haze on Jul 18, 2015 18:15:28 GMT -5
Ty Tramblie is in the semi finals. I saw him play in Vail earlier this year and he wasn't any better than some of the local colorado boys and he didn't even win that tournament playing with Jon Mesko. I don't think anyone is really comparing the 2 in terms of talent because everyone knows the top level AVP teams are far and away better, but the intial argument was teams outside the top AVP teams being far and away better than all of the NVL, which I don't believe for 1 second. SOmoeone even said the qualifier teams would win the NVL - and there are qualifier teams that have to go through the NVL qualifier as well. Tramblie played two NVL events in 2011 when there was no AVP and a lot of AVPers were playing NVL. In his two tournaments he beat current NVL players Drew Malin, Matt Henderson, and Justin Phipps. He also beat AVPers Adrian Carambula and Steve Grotowski. Tramblie's only losses on the NVL were to AVP players Sean Scott/John Hyden, Jesse Rambis/Kevin Wong, and Brady Halverson/Adam Roberts. Yes, there are some top AVP teams missing this week, but Tramblie is in fact better than your local Colorado boys and he's playing with a pretty good partner this week. Del Sol was better than Tramblie that day, and ended up beating Tramblie and Mesko in Vail with Samuels. Mesko pretty much has beat Del Sol and Samuels every time they;ve played him with DiPerro on the NVL that I can think of. There's no disrespect against Tramblie he's good. He's also in the semi's of this AVP event and on an individual skill level he wasn't better than Del Sol and not that much better that some of the other ones who only play locally in Colorado. Makes me thing what some of those NVL players like Del Sol and others could do with a guy like Crabb, or a better player like you said. Outside the top teams in this AVP tournament, not much difference in shill at all when considering the better teams on the NVL.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -5
Post by haze on Jul 18, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -5
NVL champions this week had all time highest finishes on the AVP of 17th and 41st.... They must have played back when the AVP was stronger. I'm huge Bomgrens fan, and even though they have got good, I am a little surprised at their recent success in the AVP events this year. SHocked actually. I just noticed Drost and Kolinske were in the other semi final. Wow.
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AVP NYC
Jul 18, 2015 18:47:14 GMT -5
Post by boxarox on Jul 18, 2015 18:47:14 GMT -5
You could scope-out an answer pretty quickly by looking at local tournaments, where AVP and NVL teams compete together. Here are the teams who've had top three placements in NVL tourneys this year. Take a look at any local tournament you know of, and if you find matching teams, you'll see how they did head-to-head. I checked the one local I've been able to attend this year, and found one top NVL team (Schoonover/Russell) tied for third with a mid-range AVP team, and behind two who've been mentioned in this thread. That was the Laguna Open, whose results I posted here later on.
Player Partner 1st 2nd 3rd Stephen Keffer Brad Torsone 0 0 1 Skyler McCoy Eric Zaun 0 1 0 Skyler McCoy Mark Williams 1 0 0 Skylar DelSol Jeff Samuels 0 1 1 Mike DiPierro Jon Mesko 0 1 2 Matt Henderson Piotr Marciniak 1 0 1 Martin Caban Gregor Lah 0 1 0 Eric Haddock Roberto Rodriguez-Bertran 1 1 0 Drew Mallin Dave Palm 0 0 1 Dave Palm Eric Zaun 0 0 1 Dave Palm Mike Placek 1 0 0 Andrew Russell Travis Schoonover 1 0 1 Andrew Hinchey Ryan Vandenburg 0 0 2
Oops, sorry about the spacing -- the forum software "helps" by swallowing tabs and line spaces for you, and I dunno how to over-ride it.
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