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AVP NYC
Jul 19, 2015 12:35:44 GMT -5
Post by albatross on Jul 19, 2015 12:35:44 GMT -5
Stream is live too
Doherty/Mayer up 6-2. Doherty with about 4 blocks. D/M have 2 service errors so Gibb/Patterson haven't earned a point yet
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AVP NYC
Jul 19, 2015 12:50:46 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 19, 2015 12:50:46 GMT -5
I don't really think April was on the stink wagon other than being rattled by losing to B/K then having to face a more composed C/H. C/H didn't get steamrolled by Jen/April in their first meeting but clearly April's serve was eating Claes alive. What I saw were two college kids rattling the nerves of our top players at times, and other times making silly mistakes. But what a chance to prove you can hang with quality competition. Sitting on Day's angle would open the entire court but the block must get there too. When the block and setting come to Claes watch out. She has only been playing beach 3 years. It was jump serving that did Claes in in the Semi as well. I disagree on the setting point though. I thought she set beautifully in the semi. She definitely needs work on her block timing though. Sitting on Day's angle would have opened the entire court (or at least the line shot) but when a player hits one shot that many times in a row, you either take that shot away no matter what, or you lose (and they did). In theory, wouldnt Kessey, who looked awesome by the way, have a better chance trying to convince one of the college girls to make a run at Rio, rather than sticking with Emily? Emily is what she is going to be. She and Jen will qualify and that isnt really in doubt, but what does Jen want wasting whats left of her career on a 13th at the Olympics. Why not pick up some potential and go for it.
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AVP NYC
Jul 19, 2015 13:24:11 GMT -5
Post by haze on Jul 19, 2015 13:24:11 GMT -5
Shoot I am just seeing it now - did they already show women's?
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AVP NYC
Jul 20, 2015 2:20:33 GMT -5
Post by volleyballjim on Jul 20, 2015 2:20:33 GMT -5
I've decided (thank you, <applause>), that the A.V.P v. N.V.L. competition is VERY similar to the old rules v. new rules "battle". ITS OVER (actually in 2001!)! The ship left the dock! Water under the bridge. Milk HAS spilled...O-V-E-R...You see, just because this discussion can get you 1/2 of VolleyTalk saying NVL and the other 1/2 saying AVP, it is not a "weighed average". They are two different and distinct tours, as is the FIVB, at this time. Enjoy! I'd go see either tour when in town, but geezzz, let the owners craft a market, but SERIOUSLY, that war (NVL v. AVP) was lost after the Sun purchase. No biggie, but show that AVP logo and you can get your answer, VERY quickly from any advertiser. . .
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Post by guest2 on Jul 20, 2015 2:50:15 GMT -5
I've decided (thank you, <applause>), that the A.V.P v. N.V.L. competition is VERY similar to the old rules v. new rules "battle". ITS OVER (actually in 2001!)! The ship left the dock! Water under the bridge. Milk HAS spilled...O-V-E-R...You see, just because this discussion can get you 1/2 of VolleyTalk saying NVL and the other 1/2 saying AVP, it is not a "weighed average". They are two different and distinct tours, as is the FIVB, at this time. Enjoy! I'd go see either tour when in town, but geezzz, let the owners craft a market, but SERIOUSLY, that war (NVL v. AVP) was lost after the Sun purchase. No biggie, but show that AVP logo and you can get your answer, VERY quickly from any advertiser. . . I dont think anyone is suggesting the NVL is better or equal in on court product. Not even close. However in all else its a dead heat or the NVL is ahead. Of course on court product is the most important thing. Also show an advertiser whatever logo you want, once they hear beach volleyball they likely say no before seeing any logo. Thats why the AVP's title sponsor in NYC was Donald Sun's dad and why their big new sponsor is a Japanese credit card and a weird and seemingly aimless promotion with a Japanese beach volleyball player who wont be in the main draw.
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AVP NYC
Jul 20, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -5
Post by volleyballjim on Jul 20, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -5
Can't argue with you guest2, but I still sit and ponder: What's not to like with beach volleyball? When I drive to LA and walk the sands of Hermosa during a tourney, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a photo opportunity that would make any lifestyle/sport marketing campaign complete...the VERY dense attendance in the "village" on Sat/Sun etc....Sorry man, I JUST don't get it...Somebody could be making SOME value out of these tourneys, but I DO agree Kingston, etc. shows they "ain't beating a path to their/our door"...hmmmmmm....back to my Marketing 101 textbooks for more research ; - )
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Post by guest2 on Jul 20, 2015 15:34:54 GMT -5
Can't argue with you guest2, but I still sit and ponder: What's not to like with beach volleyball? When I drive to LA and walk the sands of Hermosa during a tourney, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a photo opportunity that would make any lifestyle/sport marketing campaign complete...the VERY dense attendance in the "village" on Sat/Sun etc....Sorry man, I JUST don't get it...Somebody could be making SOME value out of these tourneys, but I DO agree Kingston, etc. shows they "ain't beating a path to their/our door"...hmmmmmm....back to my Marketing 101 textbooks for more research ; - ) Cant argue with you either. This should be a desirable sport. I think the lack of events may be a big factor
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Post by albatross on Jul 21, 2015 7:30:53 GMT -5
To be fair, Kingston is a $7B a year company, and Rakuten is $5B. Rakuten has its own stop on the ATP tennis tour. So, these are big well known companies with deep pockets. It's way better than having Crocs go out of business in the middle of their deal.
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AVP NYC
Jul 21, 2015 22:21:49 GMT -5
Post by stevek on Jul 21, 2015 22:21:49 GMT -5
I've decided (thank you, <applause>), that the A.V.P v. N.V.L. competition is VERY similar to the old rules v. new rules "battle". ITS OVER (actually in 2001!)! The ship left the dock! Water under the bridge. Milk HAS spilled...O-V-E-R...You see, just because this discussion can get you 1/2 of VolleyTalk saying NVL and the other 1/2 saying AVP, it is not a "weighed average". They are two different and distinct tours, as is the FIVB, at this time. Enjoy! I'd go see either tour when in town, but geezzz, let the owners craft a market, but SERIOUSLY, that war (NVL v. AVP) was lost after the Sun purchase. No biggie, but show that AVP logo and you can get your answer, VERY quickly from any advertiser. . . I dont think anyone is suggesting the NVL is better or equal in on court product. Not even close. However in all else its a dead heat or the NVL is ahead. Of course on court product is the most important thing. Also show an advertiser whatever logo you want, once they hear beach volleyball they likely say no before seeing any logo. Thats why the AVP's title sponsor in NYC was Donald Sun's dad and why their big new sponsor is a Japanese credit card and a weird and seemingly aimless promotion with a Japanese beach volleyball player who wont be in the main draw. I've lost a lot of faith in the AVP this year. I really thought that 2015 would be a turning point, but I am not really seeing anything to give me hope. They just don't understand how to build and engage a fanbase, and, as a result, they can't get the sponsors they need. And someone already talked about the talent issue with these small draws. Why would any player focus on beach volleyball when it is such a long shot to get to a level where you can actually make a living? That's why we're seeing teams automatically in the main draw that would have had trouble making it past the 2nd round of the qualifier of a 32-team draw five years ago. I think Donald and team needs to take a serious look during the off season and make some hard decisions. To me, if they really care about supporting volleyball, it might be time to take a look at burying the hatchet with Al-B and the NVL. I think we've learned that right now this sport isn't ready to support two tours, but really it might be that NVL is the most sustainable. Al-B has really diversified with the youth, club-med, etc while at the same time figuring out how to put on high-quality, engaging, lean tournaments. it's true that for the most part the AVP has the players, but from what I can see, NVL has the experience and the engagement down. It seems like it might be a good time to combine forces. I hope something happens - maybe the AVP is saving some magic for the final events in August and September. But I haven't seen much to be excited about from New Orleans, St. Petersburg or NYC. This will be my first year not attending a pro volleyball event since 2007. Most years, I've gone to at least two. But this year, I just can't get motivated to buy the plane tickets and get the hotel reservations for Manhattan, Hermosa or Huntington. Hopefully that changes next summer. We'll see.
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AVP NYC
Jul 21, 2015 22:38:51 GMT -5
Post by volleyballjim on Jul 21, 2015 22:38:51 GMT -5
stevek, I hear ya, but the reality is, the experience at the event is still "there" (There IS a there, there)...I guess unless we know the year-by-year financials of AVP, we only see the limited vision of the tour and it does seem like it is a very marginal change each year. It IS better each year, but not by the magnitudes we all want. The tourneys ARE a blast and the best are there, but the '10 demise killed the sports evolution of players, so we're seeing the residue of that at this point. I got my plane tickets for Huntington and will NOT be disappointed as I was NOT last year, but I guess '16 will be an interesting schedule to view, eh?
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AVP NYC
Jul 22, 2015 4:15:41 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 22, 2015 4:15:41 GMT -5
stevek, I hear ya, but the reality is, the experience at the event is still "there" (There IS a there, there)...I guess unless we know the year-by-year financials of AVP, we only see the limited vision of the tour and it does seem like it is a very marginal change each year. It IS better each year, but not by the magnitudes we all want. The tourneys ARE a blast and the best are there, but the '10 demise killed the sports evolution of players, so we're seeing the residue of that at this point. I got my plane tickets for Huntington and will NOT be disappointed as I was NOT last year, but I guess '16 will be an interesting schedule to view, eh? Is the experience at the event better than it would be if all of these teams entered a CBVA and you went down to watch? Im not making a point, I just want to know. I am very curious about the event experience. Ive been to a bunch of tournaments over the years, most pre-rule change, and I wonder if the current AVP is something that will engage the casual fan. I imagine that NYC must have gotten a ton of walk up traffic, but is the experience something that converted them? Beyond that I think the biggest problem continues to be the shortness of the tour. With 25 stops you can build atmosphere, momentum, word of mouth. I've said this before but say a person watches the Chicago stop on NBC and says to himself, "this is awesome, how can I get more?" As long as the answer is, "wait 50 days until there is another event on TV" the AVP is going to have trouble gaining traction.
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AVP NYC
Jul 22, 2015 10:05:49 GMT -5
Post by johnbar on Jul 22, 2015 10:05:49 GMT -5
Guest2, I agree with you about the short tour hurting. If you're going to build interest in the tour via TV, it has to a weekly (or almost weekly) thing. And more people have to have the chance to see it live without getting on a plane.
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AVP NYC
Jul 22, 2015 11:29:19 GMT -5
Post by volleyballjim on Jul 22, 2015 11:29:19 GMT -5
guest2: Yes, it IS better. The village is kinna fun, a few freebies and stuff, but the vibe is there and many knowledgeable fans. Organized better and the CBVA DOESN'T draw these players, so that is not an alternative. It really IS the players...If the NVL had any of the top guys, we'd be going to those events. Don't get me started on "marketing players for name/face recognition", but if you want to watch guys you follow domestically & internationally, the only venue IS the AVP...I DO wish the AVP would market the players better so you want to follow them, but HOPE is not a strategy...PLUS you see people who ONLY show up at these events and kind of build a "friend base" of AVP/FIVB/Pro followers"...Again, PLUS, Rosie's Raiders! Whats NOT to like!
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AVP NYC
Jul 22, 2015 12:48:45 GMT -5
Post by bigfan on Jul 22, 2015 12:48:45 GMT -5
Can't argue with you guest2, but I still sit and ponder: What's not to like with beach volleyball? Do you know where the organizational chart for the AVP is? A place that lists the President, director for marketing, media, Tournament directors, things like this? It is not on the AVP web site.
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AVP NYC
Jul 22, 2015 13:08:46 GMT -5
Post by guest2 on Jul 22, 2015 13:08:46 GMT -5
guest2: Yes, it IS better. The village is kinna fun, a few freebies and stuff, but the vibe is there and many knowledgeable fans. Organized better and the CBVA DOESN'T draw these players, so that is not an alternative. It really IS the players...If the NVL had any of the top guys, we'd be going to those events. Don't get me started on "marketing players for name/face recognition", but if you want to watch guys you follow domestically & internationally, the only venue IS the AVP...I DO wish the AVP would market the players better so you want to follow them, but HOPE is not a strategy...PLUS you see people who ONLY show up at these events and kind of build a "friend base" of AVP/FIVB/Pro followers"...Again, PLUS, Rosie's Raiders! Whats NOT to like! I wasnt suggesting that the CBVA is an alternative, just wondering whether the tour was adding anything in terms of value. Is it just putting the players in front of people or is there more. I think one of the problems is it is a lot harder to get the lifestyle element of the sport (which is a huge part of the draw) in a lot of locations. I know when I went to the Baltimore AVP 100 years ago, it wasnt as good as the Belmar, Ocean City or Florida events I had been to, even Virginia Beach was better. In part Baltimore was bad because there wasn't the beach atmosphere. When I got hot, I couldn't just jump in the ocean and cool off, the people were dressed differently and had different attitudes. Very few people had their cooler, umbrella, etc. set ups around outer courts. It was just a different feel. The whole lifestyle vibe thing has been beaten to death, but I do think real beaches are important. Say you are a club director that the AVP invites to bring her girls to an event. If its at the Cincinnati Tennis Center or downtown Indianapolis you are going to think twice. You know your girls will be bored by 2, whining and complaining and on their phones. Take them to the beach to see a tournament and they, and you, will have a much better time. Same with adults.
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