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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 13:26:14 GMT -5
announced. will post here shortly
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 13:48:08 GMT -5
And as I feared, somehow (according to the coaches) Washington co-won the conference with only two of the 18 best players (and no COY, POY, etc.). But Stanford had four, including the SOY and the FOY (and finished third). What a fricking joke.
The PAC needs to fix their process for this, I think. It does not reflect the way the game has changed, with about half the league running a 6-2 system and doing quite well with it.
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Post by fgonzalez on Dec 1, 2015 13:54:00 GMT -5
Did I see correctly that Formico was libero of the year and "Honorable Mention" and Strickland was on the All Pac-12 Team? So odd.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 13:56:12 GMT -5
Did I see correctly that Formico was libero of the year and "Honorable Mention" and Strickland was on the All Pac-12 Team? So odd. As I posted earlier, the votes for POY and FOY are part of the votes for the All-PAC team, but the votes for SOY and LOY are a separate vote.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Dec 1, 2015 14:00:33 GMT -5
And as I feared, somehow (according to the coaches) Washington co-won the conference with only two of the 18 best players (and no COY, POY, etc.). But Stanford had four, including the SOY and the FOY (and finished third). What a fricking joke. The PAC needs to fix their process for this, I think. It does not reflect the way the game has changed, with about half the league running a 6-2 system and doing quite well with it. But UW had 6 of the Top 36 players, and Stanford only had 4.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 14:12:52 GMT -5
And as I feared, somehow (according to the coaches) Washington co-won the conference with only two of the 18 best players (and no COY, POY, etc.). But Stanford had four, including the SOY and the FOY (and finished third). What a fricking joke. The PAC needs to fix their process for this, I think. It does not reflect the way the game has changed, with about half the league running a 6-2 system and doing quite well with it. But UW had 6 of the Top 36 players, and Stanford only had 4. Look, I understand why. With more players contributing, they don't individually build up as many accumulated counting stats. And Washington wins in large part with blocking, which is undervalued. But the process is screwed up if it can't account for different styles of play that are demonstratively at least as effective as the traditional style.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 15:13:13 GMT -5
As for LOY ... the voting for All-PAC is that all the players are mixed together. The point values range from 20 to 1, so one vote for a player at position #2 would be worth 19 votes for a player at position #20. If a few coaches put a libero fairly high on their ballot, that has a lot of leverage.
The vote for LOY is an independent vote. Coaches can vote for two names (worth 3 and 1 points). So it's more valuable to have a wide base of support than it is to have a small number of really strong supporters.
So my guess is that a few coaches voted Strickland pretty high up in the All-PAC list, which gave her enough points to get on there. Other coaches may not have voted for liberos at all.
On the other hand, in the LOY voting all coaches voted only for liberos, and a large number of them must have listed Formico as the best of the liberos. With first-place votes being worth three second place votes, there is a premium on large number of coaches giving a first-place vote.
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Post by ay2013 on Dec 1, 2015 15:39:24 GMT -5
I think Stanford will lead the Pac next year. I wonder what USC will look like? They're only losing 2 players, but one of those players is Bricio and the other is Ogoms. I think they might struggle.
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Post by bigfanofbigfan on Dec 1, 2015 16:03:14 GMT -5
I think Stanford will lead the Pac next year. I wonder what USC will look like? They're only losing 2 players, but one of those players is Bricio and the other is Ogoms. I think they might struggle. USC will be in t he bottom tier next year, probably 7th the highest
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Post by bigfanofbigfan on Dec 1, 2015 16:04:20 GMT -5
Did I see correctly that Formico was libero of the year and "Honorable Mention" and Strickland was on the All Pac-12 Team? So odd. Strickland should have been the LOY, she got robbed!
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Post by ay2013 on Dec 1, 2015 17:15:32 GMT -5
I still think this whole Mick as COY push is significantly based on the fact that he absolutley sucked last year. This is the year USC should have had LAST year. Had they performed anywhere close to expectations last year (preseason national top 5), they most likely would have started this year pretty high nationally and picked top 2 in conference. Lest we forget, last year USC returned a 1st team AA hitter, a second team AA hitter and 3 more top 5 recruits, and like 3 more top 30 recruits. Had Mick not completely sucked last year, would he be COY over cook this year? I think not.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 17:16:53 GMT -5
Just a guess here, but probably it only took about 40-50 (at most) points in the voting to get onto the All-PAC team. So let's say 3-4 coaches looked at their ballots and noticed they didn't have anyone from Washington on there except Lianna, even though the team dominated the conference. So they said, hmm, who else from Washington should I vote for? Maybe Strickland, she was LOY last year and is really important to them. So they stick her in pretty high in the vote list, like sixth or seventh. Ta da! That would be enough cumulative points to get her onto the All-PAC team. And maybe the other coaches either didn't even vote for a libero or voted for Formico pretty low on the list. That would be enough to get her HM.
Now when they go do the LOY award, a lot of coaches who maybe didn't think any libero should be on the All-PAC team now *have* to vote for two of them. Say Forimico gets five firsts, Whittingham gets a three firsts, Strickland gets four firsts, and between them and Benson they spread around the second-place votes. Bingo! Formico wins the LOY.
That's purely hypothetical, but it's a scenario that could have happened and would have explained the results.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 1, 2015 17:29:00 GMT -5
I still think this whole Mick as COY push is significantly based on the fact that he absolutley sucked last year. This is the year USC should have had LAST year. Had they performed anywhere close to expectations last year (preseason national top 5), they most likely would have started this year pretty high nationally and picked top 2 in conference. Lest we forget, last year USC returned a 1st team AA hitter, a second team AA hitter and 3 more top 5 recruits, and like 3 more top 30 recruits. Had Mick not completely sucked last year, would he be COY over cook this year? I think not. Sometimes the secret to exceeding expectations is to get the expectations lowered before you start.
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Post by ay2013 on Dec 1, 2015 17:56:14 GMT -5
I still think this whole Mick as COY push is significantly based on the fact that he absolutley sucked last year. This is the year USC should have had LAST year. Had they performed anywhere close to expectations last year (preseason national top 5), they most likely would have started this year pretty high nationally and picked top 2 in conference. Lest we forget, last year USC returned a 1st team AA hitter, a second team AA hitter and 3 more top 5 recruits, and like 3 more top 30 recruits. Had Mick not completely sucked last year, would he be COY over cook this year? I think not. Sometimes the secret to exceeding expectations is to get the expectations lowered before you start. True, but that shouldn't apply to Haley in almost any year, given his record. I Just think it's kind of ridiculous that he's getting the "exceeded expectations" treatment this year because of 1 ridiculously bad year last year where he managed to finish 10th in conference, .500 on the year, despite having 2 returning All Americans, 3 Top 5 recruits, and a total of 10 top 50 players. Meanwhile Cook, an unknown commodity as head coach, keeps the team in tact, wins the Pac-12 in his first season, despite losing half the offense. W/e.
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Post by zenyada on Dec 1, 2015 18:11:06 GMT -5
Sometimes the secret to exceeding expectations is to get the expectations lowered before you start. True, but that shouldn't apply to Haley in almost any year, given his record. I Just think it's kind of ridiculous that he's getting the "exceeded expectations" treatment this year because of 1 ridiculously bad year last year where he managed to finish 10th in conference, .500 on the year, despite having 2 returning All Americans, 3 Top 5 recruits, and a total of 10 top 50 players. Meanwhile Cook, an unknown commodity as head coach, keeps the team in tact, wins the Pac-12 in his first season, despite losing half the offense. W/e. I think the love has more to do with his successful adaptation to a quick offense and swing blocking. Impressive willingness to implement change at his tenure, roughly the equivalent of a grandpa learning to write JAVA or C++. Hats off.
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