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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Feb 5, 2016 18:20:46 GMT -5
Yeah, 6 out of 10 coached by women, I miscounted somehow. Including three of the four best jobs in the sport (USC, Pepp, Florida State. Hawai'i being the fourth). In California, women coach USC, Pepp, Cal, and Stanford. Cal Poly and LMU are not plum jobs, but UCLA is becoming one. Actually the list of plum jobs (good salary, offers beach scholarships, strongly supported by the administration) is very small. Not so unusual for a new collegiate sport, I would think.
As for the question about men coaching women, that's an interesting one. Women's collegiate indoor volleyball is dominated by male coaches. And as far as I can remember, the US national team has had only one female head coach in the last forty years. Top beach pro's like Misty, Kerri, April, Jen etc have largely employed male coaches. And so on. The reasons for the disparity are a much, much longer conversation. But the upshot is that men coaching women has been a long accepted practice. I honestly didn't give it a 2nd thought when I read about Rogers coaching at Cal Poly (perhaps I should have).
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Post by crawdaddy on Feb 5, 2016 18:43:13 GMT -5
The lack of female coaches at major D1 indoor programs is embarrassing and a complete contrast to basketball where most coaches of women's programs are female. The other message board has had long threads on this topic with too many apologists trying to explain/justify why this is so. So far, the beach game has done better than indoors and I would hope continues to do so.
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Post by guest2 on Feb 7, 2016 8:33:14 GMT -5
Yeah, 6 out of 10 coached by women, I miscounted somehow. Including three of the four best jobs in the sport (USC, Pepp, Florida State. Hawai'i being the fourth). In California, women coach USC, Pepp, Cal, and Stanford. Cal Poly and LMU are not plum jobs, but UCLA is becoming one. Actually the list of plum jobs (good salary, offers beach scholarships, strongly supported by the administration) is very small. Not so unusual for a new collegiate sport, I would think. As for the question about men coaching women, that's an interesting one. Women's collegiate indoor volleyball is dominated by male coaches. And as far as I can remember, the US national team has had only one female head coach in the last forty years. Top beach pro's like Misty, Kerri, April, Jen etc have largely employed male coaches. And so on. The reasons for the disparity are a much, much longer conversation. But the upshot is that men coaching women has been a long accepted practice. I honestly didn't give it a 2nd thought when I read about Rogers coaching at Cal Poly (perhaps I should have). I was thinking of plum jobs as in "dont have to move out of CA" but your definition is probably more accurate.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Feb 7, 2016 12:58:16 GMT -5
Yeah, 6 out of 10 coached by women, I miscounted somehow. Including three of the four best jobs in the sport (USC, Pepp, Florida State. Hawai'i being the fourth). In California, women coach USC, Pepp, Cal, and Stanford. Cal Poly and LMU are not plum jobs, but UCLA is becoming one. Actually the list of plum jobs (good salary, offers beach scholarships, strongly supported by the administration) is very small. Not so unusual for a new collegiate sport, I would think. As for the question about men coaching women, that's an interesting one. Women's collegiate indoor volleyball is dominated by male coaches. And as far as I can remember, the US national team has had only one female head coach in the last forty years. Top beach pro's like Misty, Kerri, April, Jen etc have largely employed male coaches. And so on. The reasons for the disparity are a much, much longer conversation. But the upshot is that men coaching women has been a long accepted practice. I honestly didn't give it a 2nd thought when I read about Rogers coaching at Cal Poly (perhaps I should have). I was thinking of plum jobs as in "dont have to move out of CA" but your definition is probably more accurate. Ah. Well, by that metric they really are plum jobs. Cal Poly is by far the best job for Todd. Actually, it's pretty much the only job he would take since UCSB continues to refuse to field a beach team. He doesn't need to move out of Solvang, just cruise up the 101 to Pismo Beach to coach the Msutangs. Same with LMU - Mayer gets to stay local and play/train while coaching.
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Post by beavis on Feb 8, 2016 2:09:00 GMT -5
Not to pick a fight, and I usually enjoy Guest 2's opinions, but his statements are just downright silly. "Why are there any male coaches?" Geez, I'm not sure - take a long look at the last several NCAA indoor college women's top teams and see how many were coached by women. Then perhaps we should check out how all of those men's coaches have been unable to avoid the "constant risk of inappropriate relationships." My lord, will all of these male coaches ever be able to control themselves with their female players? Welcome to the simply reality - as women's volleyball has started to emulate the men's game and become much more of a power game, the male coaches have been a perfect fit for what they are trying to accomplish. As time passes, there will hopefully be more and more successful women coaches in the top ranks, but to say that men should step aside because of the risk of inappropriate relationships with their players is perhaps the most condescending thing I have ever read on here. Just my opinion.
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Post by guest2 on Feb 8, 2016 7:33:09 GMT -5
Not to pick a fight, and I usually enjoy Guest 2's opinions, but his statements are just downright silly. "Why are there any male coaches?" Geez, I'm not sure - take a long look at the last several NCAA indoor college women's top teams and see how many were coached by women. Then perhaps we should check out how all of those men's coaches have been unable to avoid the "constant risk of inappropriate relationships." My lord, will all of these male coaches ever be able to control themselves with their female players? Welcome to the simply reality - as women's volleyball has started to emulate the men's game and become much more of a power game, the male coaches have been a perfect fit for what they are trying to accomplish. As time passes, there will hopefully be more and more successful women coaches in the top ranks, but to say that men should step aside because of the risk of inappropriate relationships with their players is perhaps the most condescending thing I have ever read on here. Just my opinion. I don't think men should step aside, I think in general ADs should stop hiring them. There are two reasons. The first is that if you have two equal candidates in all respects, but one has experience playing the game they will be coaching and one doesn't, you should hire the one with experience. Indoors, the women's game may be closer to the men's (I don't think it is, but I will concede it for the sake of argument) but outdoors the difference is drastic. What does standing in and digging Allison or Phil teach you about playing defense against Juliana or Brooke Sweat? How does playing defense behind Ryan Doherty prepare a person for helping someone else learn to play defense behind any female player other than Kerri? The second reason is the risk of a male coach abusing players or compromising your program is substantial. Male coaches are constantly dating former or current players. It ruined an Olympic team for goodness sake. Very high profile coaches at all levels. (Butler, Rose, Stevenson, McCutcheon, etc) For some reason this is largely ignored now but that won't continue to be the case. Can we say that 1 in 20 male coaches does this? It seems like more but I would say 1 in 20 is a fair estimate, others may know better. Thats a 5% chance when making a hire that your coach will compromise your program. Why take that risk to hire a less qualified candidate?
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Post by jake on Feb 8, 2016 13:37:51 GMT -5
Yeah, 6 out of 10 coached by women, I miscounted somehow. Including three of the four best jobs in the sport (USC, Pepp, Florida State. Hawai'i being the fourth). In California, women coach USC, Pepp, Cal, and Stanford. Cal Poly and LMU are not plum jobs, but UCLA is becoming one. Actually the list of plum jobs (good salary, offers beach scholarships, strongly supported by the administration) is very small. Not so unusual for a new collegiate sport, I would think. As for the question about men coaching women, that's an interesting one. Women's collegiate indoor volleyball is dominated by male coaches. And as far as I can remember, the US national team has had only one female head coach in the last forty years. Top beach pro's like Misty, Kerri, April, Jen etc have largely employed male coaches. And so on. The reasons for the disparity are a much, much longer conversation. But the upshot is that men coaching women has been a long accepted practice. I honestly didn't give it a 2nd thought when I read about Rogers coaching at Cal Poly (perhaps I should have). Think I understand what you mean by a "plum" job! No way does having a coaching job in LA beat out working on the Central Coast of California ( CAL POLY & UCSB). The quality of life, raising your kids, the environment, etc. is far superior. Todd is one lucky dude. He gets to coach in a beautiful college town, at a great school with very bright student-athletes.
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Post by abovethenet on Feb 8, 2016 16:01:18 GMT -5
Guest2 wrote: "The second reason is the risk of a male coach abusing players or compromising your program is substantial.
Male coaches are constantly dating former or current players. It ruined an Olympic team for goodness sake. Very high profile coaches at all levels. (Butler, Rose, Stevenson, McCutcheon, etc) For some reason this is largely ignored now but that won't continue to be the case.
Can we say that 1 in 20 male coaches does this? It seems like more but I would say 1 in 20 is a fair estimate, others may know better. Thats a 5% chance when making a hire that your coach will compromise your program."
Not sure this is a valid argument. Have women coaches not dated former or current players?
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Feb 8, 2016 16:15:17 GMT -5
Yeah, 6 out of 10 coached by women, I miscounted somehow. Including three of the four best jobs in the sport (USC, Pepp, Florida State. Hawai'i being the fourth). In California, women coach USC, Pepp, Cal, and Stanford. Cal Poly and LMU are not plum jobs, but UCLA is becoming one. Actually the list of plum jobs (good salary, offers beach scholarships, strongly supported by the administration) is very small. Not so unusual for a new collegiate sport, I would think. As for the question about men coaching women, that's an interesting one. Women's collegiate indoor volleyball is dominated by male coaches. And as far as I can remember, the US national team has had only one female head coach in the last forty years. Top beach pro's like Misty, Kerri, April, Jen etc have largely employed male coaches. And so on. The reasons for the disparity are a much, much longer conversation. But the upshot is that men coaching women has been a long accepted practice. I honestly didn't give it a 2nd thought when I read about Rogers coaching at Cal Poly (perhaps I should have). Think I understand what you mean by a "plum" job! No way does having a coaching job in LA beat out working on the Central Coast of California ( CAL POLY & UCSB). The quality of life, raising your kids, the environment, etc. is far superior. Todd is one lucky dude. He gets to coach in a beautiful college town, at a great school with very bright student-athletes. Cal Poly is a better job than USC, UCLA or Pepp? Well, OK then.
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Post by jake on Feb 8, 2016 17:47:05 GMT -5
Think I understand what you mean by a "plum" job! No way does having a coaching job in LA beat out working on the Central Coast of California ( CAL POLY & UCSB). The quality of life, raising your kids, the environment, etc. is far superior. Todd is one lucky dude. He gets to coach in a beautiful college town, at a great school with very bright student-athletes. Cal Poly is a better job than USC, UCLA or Pepp? Well, OK then. If,...I lived/coached in Malibu,...might be a push.
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Post by crawdaddy on Feb 9, 2016 13:59:23 GMT -5
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Post by guest2 on Feb 9, 2016 14:41:55 GMT -5
Guest2 wrote: "The second reason is the risk of a male coach abusing players or compromising your program is substantial. Male coaches are constantly dating former or current players. It ruined an Olympic team for goodness sake. Very high profile coaches at all levels. (Butler, Rose, Stevenson, McCutcheon, etc) For some reason this is largely ignored now but that won't continue to be the case. Can we say that 1 in 20 male coaches does this? It seems like more but I would say 1 in 20 is a fair estimate, others may know better. Thats a 5% chance when making a hire that your coach will compromise your program." Not sure this is a valid argument. Have women coaches not dated former or current players? Of course they have. But statistically its a much smaller risk.
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Post by Semp12 on Feb 10, 2016 15:17:57 GMT -5
Guest2 wrote: "The second reason is the risk of a male coach abusing players or compromising your program is substantial. Male coaches are constantly dating former or current players. It ruined an Olympic team for goodness sake. Very high profile coaches at all levels. (Butler, Rose, Stevenson, McCutcheon, etc) For some reason this is largely ignored now but that won't continue to be the case. Can we say that 1 in 20 male coaches does this? It seems like more but I would say 1 in 20 is a fair estimate, others may know better. Thats a 5% chance when making a hire that your coach will compromise your program." Not sure this is a valid argument. Have women coaches not dated former or current players? Of course they have. But statistically its a much smaller risk. You literally just made up this data with some assumptions and expect an AD to make a decision based on that? Should those who like the same sex, also be banned from coaching that sex for risk that they may compromise the program? Come on now..
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Post by guest2 on Feb 10, 2016 15:21:18 GMT -5
Of course they have. But statistically its a much smaller risk. You literally just made up this data with some assumptions and expect an AD to make a decision based on that? Should those who like the same sex, also be banned from coaching that sex for risk that they may compromise the program? Come on now.. I didnt make up the data, its an educated guess based on confirmed happenings, credible rumors and some basic math. If you read my last post you would see I recognized that occasionally same sex relationships happen between coaches and players but mathematically that is a much smaller risk. Let me ask a question. What percent would be too high? If someone said to you _____% of male volleyball coaches have dated or slept with players, what would that number have to be to make hiring a male coach who never played the game he is coaching a bad idea?
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Post by johnbar on Feb 10, 2016 19:31:16 GMT -5
You are literally prejudging a whole group of people based on a few bad apples. It is the few scandals that make the news; no one writes a headline "Coach does not have inappropriate relationship with players".
Just in DI, there are ~330 programs, with 3 or 4 full, part-time, or volunteer coaches each (a guess). So that's around 1000 coaches. I'll make up a number and say 40% are female. So 600 male coaches. Your 5% means 30 coaches _currently_ having inappropriate relationships. (Note that if we count scandals in the past, we have to include all the ex-coaches in the pool, which at least doubles the number we are considering.) I do not believe that number is realistic.
And even if the number were 5%, that would not preclude hiring a particular man to coach women, as far as I am concerned. Judge each person on their own merits.
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