|
Post by Semp12 on Feb 11, 2016 10:39:41 GMT -5
You literally just made up this data with some assumptions and expect an AD to make a decision based on that? Should those who like the same sex, also be banned from coaching that sex for risk that they may compromise the program? Come on now.. I didnt make up the data, its an educated guess based on confirmed happenings, credible rumors and some basic math. If you read my last post you would see I recognized that occasionally same sex relationships happen between coaches and players but mathematically that is a much smaller risk. Let me ask a question. What percent would be too high? If someone said to you _____% of male volleyball coaches have dated or slept with players, what would that number have to be to make hiring a male coach who never played the game he is coaching a bad idea? Mathematically how did you come to the conclusion it was a smaller risk is my point? You can't, you didn't. Literally a study could be done on this and you still wouldn't get accurate results since there is no way to know who many be truthful on either side. Obviously that is a loaded question since anyone who says any percent over 0 is perceived to be "OK that it happens". You can take this into literally any workplace/school scenario... If someone said to you _____% of female basketball coaches have dated or slept with players, what would that number have to be to make hiring a female coach to coach females a bad idea? If someone said to you _____% of Republican Christian Minority Male Bosses have dated or slept with their employees, what would that number have to be to make hiring a Republican Christian Minority Male Boss a bad idea? Besides, I still question your "completely different sports" argument. Todd isn't this big blocker who did nothing but block and hit hard..
|
|
|
Post by rockhopper on Feb 11, 2016 13:31:49 GMT -5
My question would be why there are any male head coaches? The men's and women's games are very different, there is a constant risk of inappropriate relationships - probably not mitigated by BVB uniforms, and a surfeit of available female candidates. Why is there "a constant risk of inappropriate relationships" in beach volleyball? Is it more than in indoor volleyball? (sorry, I posted this before I read all the way through the thread) Other than being barefoot, daughter's team wears the exact same practice uniform for beach that they wear indoor. Nike Dri-fit shirt. Nike black spandex. When you walk around big beach tournaments in this neck of the woods, you can tell which girls play in college. They have the spandex tan lines.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Feb 11, 2016 14:17:34 GMT -5
I didnt make up the data, its an educated guess based on confirmed happenings, credible rumors and some basic math. If you read my last post you would see I recognized that occasionally same sex relationships happen between coaches and players but mathematically that is a much smaller risk. Let me ask a question. What percent would be too high? If someone said to you _____% of male volleyball coaches have dated or slept with players, what would that number have to be to make hiring a male coach who never played the game he is coaching a bad idea? Mathematically how did you come to the conclusion it was a smaller risk is my point? You can't, you didn't. Literally a study could be done on this and you still wouldn't get accurate results since there is no way to know who many be truthful on either side. Obviously that is a loaded question since anyone who says any percent over 0 is perceived to be "OK that it happens". You can take this into literally any workplace/school scenario... If someone said to you _____% of female basketball coaches have dated or slept with players, what would that number have to be to make hiring a female coach to coach females a bad idea? If someone said to you _____% of Republican Christian Minority Male Bosses have dated or slept with their employees, what would that number have to be to make hiring a Republican Christian Minority Male Boss a bad idea? Besides, I still question your "completely different sports" argument. Todd isn't this big blocker who did nothing but block and hit hard.. The less likely part was based on the percentage of the population that is homosexual. The percentage question was not intended as a loaded one but I can see how it would be. Inappropriate relationships will happen no matter what, but if you can reduce that occurrence substantially by hiring a female coach rather than a male coach it seems to me you should do that.
|
|
|
Post by chicory on Feb 11, 2016 15:57:46 GMT -5
Males are more likely to be murderers. I'm sure you could find a statistic that says a certain ethnic group is more prone to a crime. Neither of those mean you base your hiring on those statistics. What you're talking about is discrimination. Don't judge someone based on a statistic.
|
|
|
Post by ardatak on Feb 11, 2016 16:01:03 GMT -5
Interesting that coaching women's beach continues to be a heavily male occupation. I get that these may not be the most attractive positions, but wouldn't ex female players be better qualified for these jobs?
Seems a bit sexist doesn't it? Let' not judge on anything other than merit.
"Sorry, we can hire you. There's a chance you will get caught up in sexual misconduct."
"Why? I have a clean record."
"Sorry, you're a man."
|
|
|
Post by gr8ful on Feb 12, 2016 12:38:37 GMT -5
I got left out of the running for the head coaching job I applied for when my first suggestion was to make the new team uniform for the ladies be thongs
|
|
|
Post by beavis on Feb 18, 2016 1:43:25 GMT -5
Thanks for making my earlier points much more eloquently than I did, everyone! Guest2 - please lay your incredibly politically correct, inane argument to rest. To even suggest that women should only coach women (and men/men, for that matter) because of your unsubstantiated feeling that the men coaches have no choice but to be inappropriately attracted (and actually act on that attraction) to women players is patently absurd. Geez, all these years that I have been happily betrothed and yet unable to not cheat on my wife with all of the female players I have coached - how jaded of a worldview can you possibly have??? And then to suggest that the men's and women's beach game is so radically different that a male cannot appreciate the differences and intricacies (i.e., relative weakness in your jaded view?) of the women's game would seem to be equally idiotic. Let's see...hmmm... we can hire a female coach who played NVL for a while, or we can hire someone who has an Olympic Gold medal and years of wins on the various domestic and world tours, to say nothing of his ability to help take one of the best beach players ever to a whole different level - what a difficult decision, especially since he will likely molest one of his players!!! I'll be the first to admit that he has often seemed like a sourpuss on the Court thru the years, but you really don't think that the defense he played for 15 years would translate into some pretty important lessons for anyone learning/playing the game at a high level, even a young lady? I'll even go out on a limb here - in the actual world of collegiate and professional volleyball, there might even be a higher risk that a player feels undue "pressure" from a female coach who might prefer the company of someone of her own sex, rather than a male coach. For that reason, do we then automatically exclude Elaine Youngs and Nicole Branagh, et al. from ever coaching a female collegiate beach volleyball squad because of their probable inability to refrain from being a normal human being and not sexually harassing their players? YEESH! Who better to lend their expertise and experience to young players? I don't often get fired up, so thanks for rekindling the passion, Guest2!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Feb 18, 2016 7:32:31 GMT -5
Thanks for making my earlier points much more eloquently than I did, everyone! Guest2 - please lay your incredibly politically correct, inane argument to rest. To even suggest that women should only coach women (and men/men, for that matter) because of your unsubstantiated feeling that the men coaches have no choice but to be inappropriately attracted (and actually act on that attraction) to women players is patently absurd. Geez, all these years that I have been happily betrothed and yet unable to not cheat on my wife with all of the female players I have coached - how jaded of a worldview can you possibly have??? And then to suggest that the men's and women's beach game is so radically different that a male cannot appreciate the differences and intricacies (i.e., relative weakness in your jaded view?) of the women's game would seem to be equally idiotic. Let's see...hmmm... we can hire a female coach who played NVL for a while, or we can hire someone who has an Olympic Gold medal and years of wins on the various domestic and world tours, to say nothing of his ability to help take one of the best beach players ever to a whole different level - what a difficult decision, especially since he will likely molest one of his players!!! I'll be the first to admit that he has often seemed like a sourpuss on the Court thru the years, but you really don't think that the defense he played for 15 years would translate into some pretty important lessons for anyone learning/playing the game at a high level, even a young lady? I'll even go out on a limb here - in the actual world of collegiate and professional volleyball, there might even be a higher risk that a player feels undue "pressure" from a female coach who might prefer the company of someone of her own sex, rather than a male coach. For that reason, do we then automatically exclude Elaine Youngs and Nicole Branagh, et al. from ever coaching a female collegiate beach volleyball squad because of their probable inability to refrain from being a normal human being and not sexually harassing their players? YEESH! Who better to lend their expertise and experience to young players? I don't often get fired up, so thanks for rekindling the passion, Guest2!!!!! First, the idea that there is no bias at play in the fact that around 50% or more of the people coaching women's teams are men, and that 99% of the people coaching men's are men is stupid. Women's sports used to all be coached by women, now more than half are coached by men? Why? What changed? Money. Post Title IX these jobs were in demand and suddenly women couldnt do them anymore? Second, yes if the only thing we are going on is experience then a few years on the NVL playing in women's events is more valuable than 15 years playing against Emmanuel and Ricardo. To dispute that the Men's international game at the highest level. In fact its fair to argue that the competition at the NVL is almost identical to the top level of women's college. So playing women's NVL is learning close to the exact game that you are coaching. To suggest the men's and womens games are not "radically different" is to concede to not understanding either. In particular when you are comparing women's college to FIVB men's. Learning how to dig Emmanuel, Bruno, Ryan Doherty etc. has much less value in the women's college game since no one playing women's college plays like any of those players. Third, I think you mean unsubstantiated, but I know you don't understand what that word means. It is the same as unsupported. I have given several examples but beyond those familiar names and all the rumors that everyone herars, lets look at a sport comparable to women's beach volleyball, women's swimming. I wonder if there is anything in women's swimming relevant to our discussion here? I mean its not like they have banned over 100 coaches in women's swimming or anything. Oh wait, they did? Hmm. Food for thought there.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Feb 18, 2016 7:33:08 GMT -5
I got left out of the running for the head coaching job I applied for when my first suggestion was to make the new team uniform for the ladies be thongs The FIVB did something very similar when they issued their first uniform requirements for women's vb
|
|
|
Post by downtheline on Feb 18, 2016 10:24:50 GMT -5
"In fact its fair to argue that the competition at the NVL is almost identical to the top level of women's college. So playing women's NVL is learning close to the exact game that you are coaching."
Im willing to bet their are zero NVL teams that even come close to the top 5 pairs in college and no where close to the top pair from USC. Why would you want to dumb the game down to that level?
Having DB as an assistant at USC far surpasses what any NVL player could bring to the women's beach game. The professor will bring the same or even better knowledge of the game to his team, imho. I'll take either gentleman or JL over RC, DC, EY, NB, AL. I could go on with the list but no need.
|
|
|
Post by Semp12 on Feb 18, 2016 10:33:50 GMT -5
Thanks for making my earlier points much more eloquently than I did, everyone! Guest2 - please lay your incredibly politically correct, inane argument to rest. To even suggest that women should only coach women (and men/men, for that matter) because of your unsubstantiated feeling that the men coaches have no choice but to be inappropriately attracted (and actually act on that attraction) to women players is patently absurd. Geez, all these years that I have been happily betrothed and yet unable to not cheat on my wife with all of the female players I have coached - how jaded of a worldview can you possibly have??? And then to suggest that the men's and women's beach game is so radically different that a male cannot appreciate the differences and intricacies (i.e., relative weakness in your jaded view?) of the women's game would seem to be equally idiotic. Let's see...hmmm... we can hire a female coach who played NVL for a while, or we can hire someone who has an Olympic Gold medal and years of wins on the various domestic and world tours, to say nothing of his ability to help take one of the best beach players ever to a whole different level - what a difficult decision, especially since he will likely molest one of his players!!! I'll be the first to admit that he has often seemed like a sourpuss on the Court thru the years, but you really don't think that the defense he played for 15 years would translate into some pretty important lessons for anyone learning/playing the game at a high level, even a young lady? I'll even go out on a limb here - in the actual world of collegiate and professional volleyball, there might even be a higher risk that a player feels undue "pressure" from a female coach who might prefer the company of someone of her own sex, rather than a male coach. For that reason, do we then automatically exclude Elaine Youngs and Nicole Branagh, et al. from ever coaching a female collegiate beach volleyball squad because of their probable inability to refrain from being a normal human being and not sexually harassing their players? YEESH! Who better to lend their expertise and experience to young players? I don't often get fired up, so thanks for rekindling the passion, Guest2!!!!! First, the idea that there is no bias at play in the fact that around 50% or more of the people coaching women's teams are men, and that 99% of the people coaching men's are men is stupid. Women's sports used to all be coached by women, now more than half are coached by men? Why? What changed? Money. Post Title IX these jobs were in demand and suddenly women couldnt do them anymore? Second, yes if the only thing we are going on is experience then a few years on the NVL playing in women's events is more valuable than 15 years playing against Emmanuel and Ricardo. To dispute that the Men's international game at the highest level. In fact its fair to argue that the competition at the NVL is almost identical to the top level of women's college. So playing women's NVL is learning close to the exact game that you are coaching. To suggest the men's and womens games are not "radically different" is to concede to not understanding either. In particular when you are comparing women's college to FIVB men's. Learning how to dig Emmanuel, Bruno, Ryan Doherty etc. has much less value in the women's college game since no one playing women's college plays like any of those players. Third, I think you mean unsubstantiated, but I know you don't understand what that word means. It is the same as unsupported. I have given several examples but beyond those familiar names and all the rumors that everyone herars, lets look at a sport comparable to women's beach volleyball, women's swimming. I wonder if there is anything in women's swimming relevant to our discussion here? I mean its not like they have banned over 100 coaches in women's swimming or anything. Oh wait, they did? Hmm. Food for thought there. So while Todd's game planning, scouting, defensive reading skills, shot hitting selection, etc may be quality on the FIVB, they just won't translate to the college game or the NVL? Todd wasn't a huge athlete who relied on athleticism to win games.. They are radically different in that one is extremely advanced compared to the other. Women's beach volleyball in similar to swimming in what ways, attire? These arguments are ridiculous. Just in, Rita at FIU hired Mike Dodd.. care to comment on the terribleness of that hire guest2?
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Feb 18, 2016 12:07:35 GMT -5
So while Todd's game planning, scouting, defensive reading skills, shot hitting selection, etc may be quality on the FIVB, they just won't translate to the college game or the NVL? Todd wasn't a huge athlete who relied on athleticism to win games.. They are radically different in that one is extremely advanced compared to the other. Women's beach volleyball in similar to swimming in what ways, attire? These arguments are ridiculous. Just in, Rita at FIU hired Mike Dodd.. care to comment on the terribleness of that hire guest2? Mike Dodd is going to move to Florida? I'm going to take these one at a time: 1. Todd's game planning - Todd's experience game planning for the last 10 years has been creating game plans based on: a. Having Phil Dalhausser, Ryan Doherty, or Theo Brunner in front of him. b. Trying to stop hitters that make shots and hit at speeds that don't exist in the women's game, particularly the women's college game Where is the comparison in the women's college game? "Oh this is just like when I had to figure out how to get Bruno's cut shot when Ryan was at the net." 2. Defensive reading - Again not particularly relevant. The shots, swings, and jumps are all different. The angles and speed of the men's international pro game are not the same. 3. Todd's shot selection - Not at all. Todd's shots are not shots top women players have, his shot selection is based on avoiding blocks that don't exist in the women's game and defenders who are twice as fast as the best women's players. Shots Todd wouldn't imagine hitting are useful in the women's game and shots that do fine for Todd because of how hard he could hit are not nearly as effective in the women's game where digging someone's hardest hit that comes right at you is a much easier proposition. And Todd absolutely relied on his athleticism. Todd had a great jump and when that went so did his game. Thats why Mike Dodd, who you brought up, was able to do well much longer than Todd did, because he didnt need to jump. Women's beach volleyball is similar to swimming in many ways - juniors culture, attire etc. but why don't you tell me why its different. If USA Swimming had to ban 100 coaches for this, why would volleyball be different?
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Feb 18, 2016 12:48:47 GMT -5
"In fact its fair to argue that the competition at the NVL is almost identical to the top level of women's college. So playing women's NVL is learning close to the exact game that you are coaching." Im willing to bet their are zero NVL teams that even come close to the top 5 pairs in college and no where close to the top pair from USC. Why would you want to dumb the game down to that level? Having DB as an assistant at USC far surpasses what any NVL player could bring to the women's beach game. The professor will bring the same or even better knowledge of the game to his team, imho. I'll take either gentleman or JL over RC, DC, EY, NB, AL. I could go on with the list but no need. Not even close to the top pair from USC? Vivian Cuhna has won an FIVB. I like Claes and Hughes, but to say they are head and shoulders above Cunha/Raquel, Brooke Niles, even out of shape Pri Lima is not accurate at all. Claes/Hughes would win on the NVL, but they wouldnt be Kiraly/Steffes. What does Dain bring? A knowledge of how the women's game works? Past experience coaching women? Pri Lima has been coaching women's and girls for over ten years, she has experience as the director of a juniors club (I think) and has played around 100 AVP events, played in Brazil on that tour. So whose experience will be more valuable?
|
|
|
Post by chicory on Feb 18, 2016 14:18:46 GMT -5
Lots of speculation. Makes you wonder how many qualified female applicants vs male there is.
|
|
|
Post by downtheline on Feb 18, 2016 18:20:22 GMT -5
I can only speak from first hand knowledge of numerous beach coaches working with youth to adults on the beach for the past 13-14 years. I have no first hand knowledge of Lima's style, demeanor or mechanics while teaching or coaching.
Experience is one thing, translating that via coaching is an art into itself, imho. It is well known that many elite athletes do not translate into elite coaches. Different styles suit different athletes, that is why the recruiting process should help inform players of what they might encounter with a given coach and staff.
DB is a master communicator and positive influence. His calmness in the heat of competition while coaching I have seen first hand and USC is very fortunate that he came back to help them compete for another national championship this season. He is a master at formulating a gameplay to take advantage of the opponents weaknesses or tendencies while keeping within the capabilities of his students. The female athletes seem to respond to him very well.
We shall see how it all plays out starting in early March.
|
|