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Post by letsfly on May 23, 2016 3:33:46 GMT -5
Back to the Cinci FIVB thread - some random thoughts about the tournament. The setup was better, in my humble opinion, than most of the recent AVP tourneys held at the Tennis Center in Mason. The biggest reason is that there were actually two really nice courts which were surrounded by bleacher seats on all sides, thus making it much nicer to sit and watch the action at either of those two courts. Nicer electronic scoring at all 4 courts as well, which is likely a result of the AVP's co-sponsorship and them bringing in some of the new equipment that they showed off in New Orleans. Odd, however, that during much of the tournament, the huge new AVP scoreboard, which is apparently meant to take the place of the old handwritten and updated main board (by the way, could Jeff Conover, like Mr. Gage before him, be a much nicer or helpful guy, even when his wife is not doing too well on the court? Nice job with that hire, Mr. Sun!!!) was showing game highlights and live action instead of the brackets and match information. Not a single Donald Sun sighting, by the way (who is even more accessible and always ready for a quick conversation), but I am sure he is a busy guy! Decent but limited food choices - not sure why the main court concession stands, which were always open during AVP events, were not open? Maybe because neither of the two bigger tennis courts were used during this tournament, but it was always kinda nice to have a bunch of restrooms readily accessible as well as the ability to get out of the rain under the stadium court overhangs. The weather was decent early, really nice on Thursday, really bad on Friday, and chilly and cloudy on Saturday, so the weather was definitely a factor (although nothing like the brutal New Orleans winds). The way the wind was blowing definitely created a good side/bad side, especially on the smallish (2400 capacity I heard) main court on Saturday - it was blowing from end to end instead of across the court sideways. Not sure I will ever get used to the men only matches for 3-4 hrs and then women only for the next 3-4 hours, and I understand that the Saturday semis, bronze and gold medal matches were being shown on some World TV channel, but squeezing everything onto that one court over 10 hours on Saturday kinda blew from a fan perspective. I get it - smaller court looks fuller and thus much better on TV, but if the weather was better on Saturday, my guess is that there would have been a lot of folks without a seat? It was SRO during the morning up thru the Kerri/April win, but really thinned out after that, especially when it was clear that no US men would be in the Final. As for the play itself, I am getting to be a bigger and bigger Crabb fan at each tournament. The Austrians were jawing at them like crazy, and they just kept coming at them in a businesslike, steady manner - that was cool to watch! I agree that Phil looks somewhat disinterested, and seemed kinda winded at times. His jumper seems to be waning in effectiveness. Mayer was his usual scrambling self, but Doherty seemed even more disinterested and lethargic. Is it me, or does he just seem to take plays (and games) off? And that half-swing seems to be getting easier and easier to read and defend against. I thought Tri and John played well, but you just can't beat father time. The Rogers/Page project is a bit sad to watch as well - I remember one game where Page served the ball like 8-10 feet long 3 times in a row, and I am not sure that even the Professor will be able to bring him along. Overall, I have to agree with other takes on the status of the US men's teams - there just doesn't seem to be anyone even near a Guto/Saymon caliber team waiting in the wings. Can you believe that they are both only 22 and maybe 5th or 6th on the Brazilian depth chart??? The 6'1" Guto is crazy good defending and siding out - what a fun team to watch, and 21-8 in the second game against Canada? HOLY CRAP! Kerri is still not banging the ball, but the best thing, again in my humble opinion, to ever happen to April was to be able to focus on defense full time. I remember watching she and Jen split block, and thinking that she would likely never be a really effective, top notch defender, but I was wayyyyyy wrong. Her anticipation is crazy good, and there was one play when she was almost in the stands chasing a ball and got it, and the Spaniards then dumped it to the other side of the court on one, and she tracked that ball down as well and completed the rally with a kill - are you kidding??? Her sneaky fast speed is fun to watch, and if Kerri can get back to 75% of her former self, I think they are in good shape to medal in Rio. The US women's depth seems to suffer after them, however. Age has caught up to Jen, and I don't know if Emily is too much of a tweener to ever really blossom. Summer and Lane had flashes of brilliance, but again, is Summer ever a full-time blocker at the highest level? And I am not sure how beat up Brooke's shoulder still is, but Fendy's constant too close-to-the-net sets really exposes them. I know the silver lining is in the continued growth of the NCAA women's beach program, so I sure hope everyone is right that there are some heirs to the Kerri/April throne out there! Overall, we had a good time despite the chilly weather, but there was one more really funny part. Before the women's medal presentation, there were like 163 guys tasked with hanging the FIVB banner and attaching it to the net poles, and it took them like 20 minutes to get that done - that may well have been the hardest we laughed the whole week!!! I know the Cinci tourneys have suffered from mostly way too hot and muggy conditions over the past few years, but at least there were a couple of decent, partly sunny days this time - I just hope they never have to move everything to Saturday again just for TV purposes, because that is often the only day that most local folks can get to these tournaments I would guess? And c'mon FIVB - let there be ball "kids" instead of only older folks, especially during the early part of the tournament - what a thrill it always seems to be for those kids! Spacing is key
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 23, 2016 12:02:48 GMT -5
US is not the creme de la creme in Beach Volleyball anymore. It's only going to get worse moving forward too. Not surprised at all at results (or lack of). The 2nd best US team isn't even attempting to go to Rio. at the Grand Slam this weekend, the US has 3 teams ranked in the top 10 on the men's side. Netherlands and Brazil are next with 2 each. Just FYI.
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Post by beavis on May 24, 2016 0:18:01 GMT -5
I actually put this into paragraphs as I wrote it, but that's how it came out on the post!
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Post by guest2 on May 24, 2016 1:56:14 GMT -5
I actually put this into paragraphs as I wrote it, but that's how it came out on the post! With or without paragraphs its much appreciated. Real insight into going to a tournament and the people there
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 24, 2016 7:11:23 GMT -5
I actually put this into paragraphs as I wrote it, but that's how it came out on the post! Did you watch Bourne and Hyden? Is John getting every serve and just not able to side out as well? Btw, I watched one of Casebeer's matches (they lost in 3) I thought he played really well, Derek just couldn't side out.
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Post by donnyb on May 24, 2016 8:03:25 GMT -5
I watched Jeremy play also and I though he didn't get served much but one game he got like 3 in a row and didn't side out once. He gets blocked a bunch for what little he gets served.
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Post by beavis on May 24, 2016 11:33:53 GMT -5
You are very welcome, Guest 2 - my pleasure - I am the same way - I enjoy reading what happened at the venues I cannot personally get to! As for Hyden/Bourne, I think you hit the nail on the head, JB, and I did watch two of their matches - Hyden is still amazing for his age, but is definitely slowing down on defense. For an outside who had great indoor success, I always marveled at the fact that we was able to become a true defender in the sand, but I think that, even though guys like him and Todd are still in great shape physically, the inevitable early 40's reaction time/overall slowdown is clearly affecting his game. I am also amazed at his ability to shoot the ball around instead of banging away - I wish I had 1/4 of the court vision he seems to innately have. I really think he has done wonders with Tri, however, and if he is able to find the perfect defender after John is done, he will be a force to be reckoned with. He is obviously way shorter than guys like Page and Doherty, but makes up for it with much more effort and good timing, in my humble opinion. As for Casebeer, we watched him as well - I have enjoyed watching his effort since he played with Casey Jennings, and he always gives it everything he's got. I am afraid he is the classic tweener, however, and can simply never become a dominant blocker, and you are right - he seems to sometimes lapse into sideout troubles. I am glad to see them heading overseas and giving it a shot, but it must be brutal, unless you are independently wealthy, to make those trips and then not get into the main draw, so I am glad they made it in Cinci. And I agree, Olson's sideout game is a problem for them, but he seems to scamper well on defense - they are pretty fun to watch, and I'm glad Casebeer got a haircut - HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 24, 2016 11:36:56 GMT -5
You are very welcome, Guest 2 - my pleasure - I am the same way - I enjoy reading what happened at the venues I cannot personally get to! As for Hyden/Bourne, I think you hit the nail on the head, JB, and I did watch two of their matches - Hyden is still amazing for his age, but is definitely slowing down on defense. For an outside who had great indoor success, I always marveled at the fact that we was able to become a true defender in the sand, but I think that, even though guys like him and Todd are still in great shape physically, the inevitable early 40's reaction time/overall slowdown is clearly affecting his game. I am also amazed at his ability to shoot the ball around instead of banging away - I wish I had 1/4 of the court vision he seems to innately have. I really think he has done wonders with Tri, however, and if he is able to find the perfect defender after John is done, he will be a force to be reckoned with. He is obviously way shorter than guys like Page and Doherty, but makes up for it with much more effort and good timing, in my humble opinion. As for Casebeer, we watched him as well - I have enjoyed watching his effort since he played with Casey Jennings, and he always gives it everything he's got. I am afraid he is the classic tweener, however, and can simply never become a dominant blocker, and you are right - he seems to sometimes laps into sideout troubles. I am glad to see them heading overseas and giving it a shot, but it must be brutal, unless you are independently wealthy, to make those trips and then not get into the main draw, so I am glad they made it in Cinci. And I agree, Olson's sideout game is a problem for them, but he seems to scamper well on defense - they are pretty fun to watch, and I'm glad Casebeer got a haircut - HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks for the thoughts.
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Post by beavis on May 24, 2016 11:38:21 GMT -5
My pleasure, JB - hope you can get to a few tourneys this summer!
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Post by sdshooter on May 24, 2016 11:38:25 GMT -5
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Post by klazk on May 24, 2016 16:31:04 GMT -5
China hasnt been in the mix for a few years. The women's tour right now is very much Brazil and the US with the odd other team sneaking in now and then. Germany has 4 solid teams. In terms of depth they are well above the US right now imho.
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Post by beavis on May 24, 2016 23:33:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the link to Mark Burik's article - I have always liked him a lot, but came down pretty hard on him for bailing on Marchewka in New Orleans. It is interesting to read a player's perspective! I did not see him in Cinci at all - wonder if he was actually there?
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Post by swim4life107 on May 25, 2016 1:37:01 GMT -5
Listen I'd love to argue with you, but you are just going to keep muddying the water on tedious details and technicalities. I'm not interested. You still really didn't prove the point that the US has under-performed in Olympics. I don't really buy that Gibb/Rosie missing out on snagging a bronze or 2 proves that. 1996 McPeak/Reno seeded second, finished 5th. Thats one medal miss. 2000 May/McPeak and Davis/Johnson-Jordan were the 3rd and 4th ranked teams going in. (Australia got the 1 seed due to home court, but were ranked lower than both US teams who had both made multiple finals and won, which Australia hadnt) Both finished 5th. Two medal misses 2004 Nygaard/Blanton (Seeded 8, projected as medal contender, finished last) 2012 Rogers/Dalhausser (Seeded 2nd, finished 9th) Gibb/Rosie (2nd best team in 2012 coming in, lost to 17 seed) At least three medal misses. By that standard, Dain and Karch's team did better than their seeding to get Gold. As did Misty/Kerri. EY and Holly and Jen/April weren't suppose to medal per their ranking or seeding. 5 examples right there.
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Post by guest2 on May 25, 2016 2:52:11 GMT -5
1996 McPeak/Reno seeded second, finished 5th. Thats one medal miss. 2000 May/McPeak and Davis/Johnson-Jordan were the 3rd and 4th ranked teams going in. (Australia got the 1 seed due to home court, but were ranked lower than both US teams who had both made multiple finals and won, which Australia hadnt) Both finished 5th. Two medal misses 2004 Nygaard/Blanton (Seeded 8, projected as medal contender, finished last) 2012 Rogers/Dalhausser (Seeded 2nd, finished 9th) Gibb/Rosie (2nd best team in 2012 coming in, lost to 17 seed) At least three medal misses. By that standard, Dain and Karch's team did better than their seeding to get Gold. As did Misty/Kerri. EY and Holly and Jen/April weren't suppose to medal per their ranking or seeding. 5 examples right there. You are just spouting nonsense at this point. Kiraly/Steffes winning an FIVB, the softest pro tournaments around in 1996, was an upset? An event that didnt even have the top Brazilian team there, the top Brazilian team that was 1-27 against Kiraly/Steffes lifetime btw? Find me one person who was an active fan or involved with the sport at the time who agrees with that and I will graciously concede the entire argument. Earlier you stated that you didnt know much pre-Athens so why do you persist in arguing about it?
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Post by swim4life107 on May 25, 2016 10:54:29 GMT -5
I was using YOUR metrics, I never said if I agreed or disagreed. I get though that everything is "nonsense" if it doesn't fit with your theory.
Also, find me one person who looks at the USA's Olympic record and thinks, jeez, we really should have more! 6 Golds, fricking slackers!
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