|
|
Post by donut on Apr 27, 2020 11:50:31 GMT -5
Most of you wanted krob to play libero. Let's ask krob first if she wants to play libero đ. I read somewhere on this site that she spoke with coaches and usnt that she doesn't want to be on that role for whatever reason. She also mentioned on her vlog her experience playing as libero is kind of frustrating for her because she can't help the team in terms of "points" she wants to hit the ball something like that. But for me shebis still young. There is a still possibility that she'll still be in nt for 2024. But for this coming olympic, maybe she should consider playing libero for the team. Right and this is the problem. In a team sport, not doing whatever it takes to help the team be successful is a REAL issue. I would love to be a fly on the wall for these conversations: âI donât wanna be liberoâ âKelsey, just get us through this summerâ âIf I play OH well next summer, can I play OH instead?â âSure.â *plays OH well the following summer* â... Courtney, do you mind?â |
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Apr 27, 2020 11:55:44 GMT -5
Right and this is the problem. In a team sport, not doing whatever it takes to help the team be successful is a REAL issue. I would love to be a fly on the wall for these conversations: âI donât wanna be liberoâ âKelsey, just get us through this summerâ âIf I play OH well next summer, can I play OH instead?â âSure.â *plays OH well the following summer* â... Courtney, do you mind?â Somewhere, Rob Patrick is laughing his butt off and is grateful that this is no longer his problem. |
|
|
|
Post by jwvolley on Apr 27, 2020 12:05:23 GMT -5
Yeah let's drag our players. That sounds fun
|
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Apr 27, 2020 12:29:59 GMT -5
If you sat down and showed me video of why she has technical weaknesses, that would in fact be an opinion. It is very likely and probably a certainty I would agree with you but that would be us sharing the same opinion.  She forms her platform at her midline (habitually) and then swings it left. That causes her to be late with her platform and she shanks the ball sideways. If she formed her platform on her left, she'd cut off the ball and, at worst, it'd go directly upwards, but more likely she'd get towards her target. This is just one among a plethora of examples. You can think it's an opinion if you like - but that's what she does. I will add, since the semantic police are lurking, I'm sure, that this is very common among OHs and she isn't always late when she does it. But on the balls like this one, outside her body, it's often why she gets beat when she shouldn't. Therefore it's a technical issue. It's a technical issue, but also a physical and philosophical one. The upper body strength required to control that ball to the right side when the ball is left of her midline (and in this case, she's also leaning backward) is far greater than that required if she took the ball with her platform nearer her midline. Think of a traditional pepper stance--you can control any ball much more easily when your platform is at your midline just by swinging it back and forth. Now try simply swinging your arms with your platform extended either left or right while standing still. You cannot control the ball without the momentum from your body and more precise timing.   This technique is a GM2 philosophy derived from the men's game. One can argue that Courtney didn't execute that technique correctly, but it can also be argued that it was inappropriate for that situation. |
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 27, 2020 12:45:43 GMT -5
I think she's very, very good, regardless of what her passing numbers were. To be fair, I think she's very, very okay, regardless of what her passing numbers were. I remember seeing her as a sophomore as MN Select 18's libero and thinking she was outstanding for her age. I think she's pretty much just as good as that now. THIS!!!!!! I see not much improvement from her club highlight vid as a SOPHOMORE on 18âs. Cmon Cc |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 12:51:47 GMT -5
She forms her platform at her midline (habitually) and then swings it left. That causes her to be late with her platform and she shanks the ball sideways. If she formed her platform on her left, she'd cut off the ball and, at worst, it'd go directly upwards, but more likely she'd get towards her target. This is just one among a plethora of examples. You can think it's an opinion if you like - but that's what she does. I will add, since the semantic police are lurking, I'm sure, that this is very common among OHs and she isn't always late when she does it. But on the balls like this one, outside her body, it's often why she gets beat when she shouldn't. Therefore it's a technical issue. It's a technical issue, but also a physical and philosophical one. The upper body strength required to control that ball to the right side when the ball is left of her midline (and in this case, she's also leaning backward) is far greater than that required if she took the ball with her platform nearer her midline. Think of a traditional pepper stance--you can control any ball much more easily when your platform is at your midline just by swinging it back and forth. Now try simply swinging your arms with your platform extended either left or right while standing still. You cannot control the ball without the momentum from your body and more precise timing. This technique is a GM2 philosophy derived from the men's game.  One can argue that Courtney didn't execute that technique correctly, but it can also be argued that it was inappropriate for that situation. Firstly, thanks for engaging with this. I know I've antagonized you in the past but I appreciate your willingness to talk about Courtney. While it's true that more strength is required to control the ball away from your midline, it's false to suggest that you cannot do it without swinging your platform from your midline. It's also true that it's easier to control the ball when digging at your midline but that wasn't possible on this occasion - and it's worth noting that she had made the right read: Line 2. Players, especially outsides, connect their platform at their midline out of habit. If you look closely you'll see Courtney connects her hands before she's even finished her split step. That isn't a philosophy. It's a mistake. Lots of players form their platform outside their body, more in the men's game than the women's actually, because it's faster and helps them keep their shoulders closed, controlling the ball better, rather than opening up as they swing. |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Apr 27, 2020 13:00:31 GMT -5
It's a technical issue, but also a physical and philosophical one. The upper body strength required to control that ball to the right side when the ball is left of her midline (and in this case, she's also leaning backward) is far greater than that required if she took the ball with her platform nearer her midline. Think of a traditional pepper stance--you can control any ball much more easily when your platform is at your midline just by swinging it back and forth. Now try simply swinging your arms with your platform extended either left or right while standing still. You cannot control the ball without the momentum from your body and more precise timing. This technique is a GM2 philosophy derived from the men's game.  One can argue that Courtney didn't execute that technique correctly, but it can also be argued that it was inappropriate for that situation. Firstly, thanks for engaging with this. I know I've antagonized you in the past but I appreciate your willingness to talk about Courtney. While it's true that more strength is required to control the ball away from your midline, it's false to suggest that you cannot do it without swinging your platform from your midline. It's also true that it's easier to control the ball when digging at your midline but that wasn't possible on this occasion - and it's worth noting that she had made the right read: Line 2. Players, especially outsides, connect their platform at their midline out of habit. If you look closely you'll see Courtney connects her hands before she's even finished her split step. That isn't a philosophy. It's a mistake. Lots of players form their platform outside their body, more in the men's game than the women's actually, because it's faster and helps them keep their shoulders closed, controlling the ball better, rather than opening up as they swing. I never said one can't do it, I said it was more difficult. You can see in this particular case that the blockers take angle, and the hitter goes line. Courtney is in position, but she takes a step to her right, away from ball, and then goes into a split stance. In that position, she has no strength behind her platform. I think that was her mistake. |
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 27, 2020 13:10:08 GMT -5
If you sat down and showed me video of why she has technical weaknesses, that would in fact be an opinion. It is very likely and probably a certainty I would agree with you but that would be us sharing the same opinion. She forms her platform at her midline (habitually) and then swings it left. That causes her to be late with her platform and she shanks the ball sideways. If she formed her platform on her left, she'd cut off the ball and, at worst, it'd go directly upwards, but more likely she'd get towards her target. This is just one among a plethora of examples. You can think it's an opinion if you like - but that's what she does. I will add, since the semantic police are lurking, I'm sure, that this is very common among OHs and she isn't always late when she does it. But on the balls like this one, outside her body, it's often why she gets beat when she shouldn't. Therefore it's a technical issue. Donât know if anyone has acknowledged it, but this type of defensive style that the USA play, MENS AND WOMENS, is this inside-out type of defense. I know probability would prolly bet that that ball will be blasted inside the court, but why canât our line defenders be on their line and moving in? Courtney can at least KNOW The only way the ball can go is to the right of her. Play outside-in defense USA you can give up that line/angle LANGLE shot. And I donât CAREEEE how much line their dumb blockers are giving up. Outsides are dumb blockers. Just donât get beat down ur line get beat in langle and yell at Jordan to cover that space. That seems to be a high ball right side set anyway |
|
|
|
Post by joetrinsey on Apr 27, 2020 13:15:48 GMT -5
I think the idea that you're going to form your platform outside your midline sounds good in theory; I just don't see anybody really do it.
Even captain 1-arm himself, the great Grebennikov pulls his hands into his midline before he makes a 2-arm dig. I even see him flinch inside when he 1-arm digs (as does De Gennaro in the first shanked 1-arm dig0, but he does keep it out there a lot more.
I'd say at very least this is a "debated," topic on defense and far from settled.
Edit: here's my Grebennikov link. Not sure why it's not going in-line:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 13:16:08 GMT -5
She forms her platform at her midline (habitually) and then swings it left. That causes her to be late with her platform and she shanks the ball sideways. If she formed her platform on her left, she'd cut off the ball and, at worst, it'd go directly upwards, but more likely she'd get towards her target. This is just one among a plethora of examples. You can think it's an opinion if you like - but that's what she does. I will add, since the semantic police are lurking, I'm sure, that this is very common among OHs and she isn't always late when she does it. But on the balls like this one, outside her body, it's often why she gets beat when she shouldn't. Therefore it's a technical issue. Donât know if anyone has acknowledged it, but this type of defensive style that the USA play, MENS AND WOMENS, is this inside-out type of defense. I know probability would prolly bet that that ball will be blasted inside the court, but why canât our line defenders be on their line and moving in? Courtney can at least KNOW The only way the ball can go is to the right of her. Play outside-in defense USA you can give up that line/angle LANGLE shot. She is in line 2. Her position is perfect. If she's in Line that hitter (who doesn't paint the line when she swings) will crush Line 2 all day. Courtney is just late with her platform. It's not a philosophical issue. That's a ball our Libero should be getting up from that position. |
|
libro
Sophomore
Posts: 120
|
Post by libro on Apr 27, 2020 13:19:55 GMT -5
Donât know if anyone has acknowledged it, but this type of defensive style that the USA play, MENS AND WOMENS, is this inside-out type of defense. I know probability would prolly bet that that ball will be blasted inside the court, but why canât our line defenders be on their line and moving in? Courtney can at least KNOW The only way the ball can go is to the right of her. Play outside-in defense USA you can give up that line/angle LANGLE shot. She is in line 2. Her position is perfect. If she's in Line that hitter (who doesn't paint the line when she swings) will crush Line 2 all day. Courtney is just late with her platform. It's not a philosophical issue. That's a ball our Libero should be getting up from that position. This space isnât coverable by 6? We actually want our lib 6 feet into court? My head is spinning. Itâs easily to move into the court/make plays into the court. Karch we gunna fight |
|
|
|
Post by volleyguy on Apr 27, 2020 13:26:57 GMT -5
Donât know if anyone has acknowledged it, but this type of defensive style that the USA play, MENS AND WOMENS, is this inside-out type of defense. I know probability would prolly bet that that ball will be blasted inside the court, but why canât our line defenders be on their line and moving in? Courtney can at least KNOW The only way the ball can go is to the right of her. Play outside-in defense USA you can give up that line/angle LANGLE shot. She is in line 2. Her position is perfect. If she's in Line that hitter (who doesn't paint the line when she swings) will crush Line 2 all day. Courtney is just late with her platform. It's not a philosophical issue. That's a ball our Libero should be getting up from that position. It might be an issue of technique within your defined system (or philosophy), but defensive positioning is a philosophical issue too, and it's certainly debatable whether she is in the optimum position. |
|
|
|
Post by joetrinsey on Apr 27, 2020 13:28:55 GMT -5
@bwf2 ,
Can you share some examples? I have not been able to find anybody doing it really consistently. Maybe some isolated plays here or there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 13:31:58 GMT -5
I think the idea that you're going to form your platform outside your midline sounds good in theory; I just don't see anybody really do it. Even captain 1-arm himself, the great Grebennikov pulls his hands into his midline before he makes a 2-arm dig. I even see him flinch inside when he 1-arm digs, but he does keep it out there a lot more.
I'd say at very least this is a "debated," topic on defense and far from settled. The young Argentinean Libero does a good job of it. In the same way that the "stopped on contact" concept died (because it doesn't work), I think this is just an evolution of the game. As far as 'settled', I agree it's not universally taught yet, but I think that says more about coaching than the technique. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 13:33:54 GMT -5
She is in line 2. Her position is perfect. If she's in Line that hitter (who doesn't paint the line when she swings) will crush Line 2 all day. Courtney is just late with her platform. It's not a philosophical issue. That's a ball our Libero should be getting up from that position. It might be an issue of technique within your defined system (or philosophy), but defensive positioning is a philosophical issue too, and it's certainly debatable whether she is in the optimum position. It was certainly a coaching choice to be in Line 2 rather than Line. But given the hitter, being in Line there would (in my opinion) not be optimal. Either way you'd still want your Olympic L getting that ball up. |
|
