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Post by volleyguy on Apr 27, 2020 13:37:54 GMT -5
It might be an issue of technique within your defined system (or philosophy), but defensive positioning is a philosophical issue too, and it's certainly debatable whether she is in the optimum position. It was certainly a coaching choice to be in Line 2 rather than Line. But given the hitter, being in Line there would (in my opinion) not be optimal. Either way you'd still want your Olympic L getting that ball up. Why? If Courtney is a step-and-a-half towards the line, she probably makes that play.
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Post by joetrinsey on Apr 27, 2020 13:43:47 GMT -5
I don't really see it with him either: I do see a lot of people teaching it. I just don't really see players doing it. (Shameless plug, did a webinar with Alfee on this. He is a fan of teaching independent arms: www.scoutvb.com/shop-2/alfee-reft-defensive-training-webinar But this is one where him and I disagree a bit.)
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libro
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Post by libro on Apr 27, 2020 13:49:37 GMT -5
It might be an issue of technique within your defined system (or philosophy), but defensive positioning is a philosophical issue too, and it's certainly debatable whether she is in the optimum position. It was certainly a coaching choice to be in Line 2 rather than Line. But given the hitter, being in Line there would (in my opinion) not be optimal. Either way you'd still want your Olympic L getting that ball up. This specific play is interesting to discuss. IMO both sets of defenders are making dumb choices. Yes, all hitters are diff and the coaching staff had a scheme against this specific Oppo (or OH that can hit d ball), but that block of KRob I believe is giving her 7 feet of line on a KIND OF inside set. Her left hand ain’t even close to that ball. But still from this that hitter goes wrist away and Courtney is shallow and not on her line. Yes the speed of the game is fast but having her that far into court, especially when she already don’t know how to play 5, spells for disaster
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 13:58:43 GMT -5
It was certainly a coaching choice to be in Line 2 rather than Line. But given the hitter, being in Line there would (in my opinion) not be optimal. Either way you'd still want your Olympic L getting that ball up. Why? If Courtney is a step-and-a-half towards the line, she probably makes that play. Because if she's a step and a half towards the line (I.e. Line) she won't be able to dig Line 2 which is that hitter hits far more than trying to paint the line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 14:00:40 GMT -5
I don't really see it with him either: I do see a lot of people teaching it. I just don't really see players doing it. (Shameless plug, did a webinar with Alfee on this. He is a fan of teaching independent arms: www.scoutvb.com/shop-2/alfee-reft-defensive-training-webinar But this is one where him and I disagree a bit.) Hah, I guess put me in Aflee's corner then. And thanks, I'll watch this later. I appreciate your input btw Joe.
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Post by joetrinsey on Apr 27, 2020 14:07:39 GMT -5
FWIW, I am open to the idea that there's value in the cue, even if it doesn't necessarily appear to be happening. Ex: it's pretty clear that "wrist snap" doesn't necessarily happen (at least, not often, not by most of the hardest hitters, and not in the way it was taught to me when I was a player), but it does seem to help some players to think of snapping over top of the ball.
Since the difference between a dig and shank might only be a couple inches, it's entirely possible that connecting your hands 4" outside midline instead of right on midline could make the difference between a dig and not. I personally feel like it's faster to just connect on midline and go from there, but there's enough variation in how it's done at the highest levels that it's not totally settled in my mind.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 27, 2020 14:12:28 GMT -5
Why? If Courtney is a step-and-a-half towards the line, she probably makes that play. Because if she's a step and a half towards the line (I.e. Line) she won't be able to dig Line 2 which is that hitter hits far more than trying to paint the line. That simply suggests she didn't read the play very well. Arguing that the player's technique should carry her through the play when the defensive positioning is set by the hitter's tendencies rather than the actual play itself is substantially more of a philosophical argument than an issue of technique.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 14:29:47 GMT -5
Courtney is a fantastic athlete but I guess I just don't care to convert OH's to Liberos. At all. I don't care how good you pass if you can't play good defense (and all that that entails) too, you shouldn't be a libero. This is why we have a problem at that position. Karch would rather field a passing libero rather than a defensive one. He cares about being in system more because our hitters struggle to kill the ball OOS. This is likely due to his ridiculous need to run a fast offense, even in transition which baffles me sometimes. I mean we have hitters that can hit over the block if the set is high enough. I guess what I think is that there can be a happy medium somewhere in there. If he had just kept JWO and another TRUE libero in the mix this entire quad the team would have likely performed a little worse in the VNL's but that sacrifice could have paid off in the long run. The team would be better at scoring OOS and thus when they are in system, the system would have been more effective. At least that is how I see it. I could be completely wrong here and that is ok. Am I making any sense here? Setting aside coaching philosophies for a second, I think the frustration at "OHs coverting to liberos" is a bit misplaced. The lack of a libero pipeline is really the core issue here. However, even if we had a healthier libero pipeline, KRob could still be our best option, and in that case, I'd want to see her in that role, unless the opportunity cost of her not playing OH is too high (I'm not convinced it is right now). Additionally, the drop off between her and the next libero (Courtney or JWO) is significant, which might not be the case if there was a healthier libero pipeline. If we had a more robust libero pipeline, I think we wouldn't see as many OHs through the libero revolving door (we shouldn't be seeing Foecke or MBH there at all like wut), but I don't think we should systematically exclude them. I agree. The situation with Foecke and MBH was unique because Lake had her passport stolen and Courtney was injured/ill at the same time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 14:42:38 GMT -5
Setting aside coaching philosophies for a second, I think the frustration at "OHs coverting to liberos" is a bit misplaced. The lack of a libero pipeline is really the core issue here. However, even if we had a healthier libero pipeline, KRob could still be our best option, and in that case, I'd want to see her in that role, unless the opportunity cost of her not playing OH is too high (I'm not convinced it is right now). Additionally, the drop off between her and the next libero (Courtney or JWO) is significant, which might not be the case if there was a healthier libero pipeline. If we had a more robust libero pipeline, I think we wouldn't see as many OHs through the libero revolving door (we shouldn't be seeing Foecke or MBH there at all like wut), but I don't think we should systematically exclude them. I agree. The situation with Foecke and MBH was unique because Lake had her passport stolen and Courtney was injured/ill at the same time. anyone have the links for the games they played libero? I wanna watch it so badly haha
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 14:59:37 GMT -5
I agree. The situation with Foecke and MBH was unique because Lake had her passport stolen and Courtney was injured/ill at the same time. anyone have the links for the games they played libero? I wanna watch it so badly haha You can probably find the highlight videos on YouTube. Robinson was Libero vs. Russia, MBH was Libero vs. Netherland and Foecke was Libero vs. Thailand. This was week 5 of the preliminaries of the 2019 VNL in Ekaterinburg Russia.
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Post by n00b on Apr 27, 2020 15:17:02 GMT -5
If you sat down and showed me video of why she has technical weaknesses, that would in fact be an opinion. It is very likely and probably a certainty I would agree with you but that would be us sharing the same opinion. She forms her platform at her midline (habitually) and then swings it left. That causes her to be late with her platform and she shanks the ball sideways. If she formed her platform on her left, she'd cut off the ball and, at worst, it'd go directly upwards, but more likely she'd get towards her target. This is just one among a plethora of examples. You can think it's an opinion if you like - but that's what she does. I will add, since the semantic police are lurking, I'm sure, that this is very common among OHs and she isn't always late when she does it. But on the balls like this one, outside her body, it's often why she gets beat when she shouldn't. Therefore it's a technical issue. I'll add that her footwork here isn't making it any easier on her platform. If you're somewhere between falling and doing the splits while you try to dig the ball, it's gonna be tough.
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Post by n00b on Apr 27, 2020 15:17:51 GMT -5
I don't really see it with him either: I do see a lot of people teaching it. I just don't really see players doing it. (Shameless plug, did a webinar with Alfee on this. He is a fan of teaching independent arms: www.scoutvb.com/shop-2/alfee-reft-defensive-training-webinar :) But this is one where him and I disagree a bit.) Super off topic, but what video editor do you use to quickly put those clips together?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 15:20:11 GMT -5
anyone have the links for the games they played libero? I wanna watch it so badly haha You can probably find the highlight videos on YouTube. Robinson was Libero vs. Russia, MBH was Libero vs. Netherland and Foecke was Libero vs. Thailand. This was week 5 of the preliminaries of the 2019 VNL in Ekaterinburg Russia. watching the highlights I was super impressed with foeckes OOS and Carlinis defense.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Apr 27, 2020 15:25:05 GMT -5
Somebody roll the Brenda Castillo highlights so we can see how a real libero gets it done
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 15:35:49 GMT -5
Because if she's a step and a half towards the line (I.e. Line) she won't be able to dig Line 2 which is that hitter hits far more than trying to paint the line. That simply suggests she didn't read the play very well. Arguing that the player's technique should carry her through the play when the defensive positioning is set by the hitter's tendencies rather than the actual play itself is substantially more of a philosophical argument than an issue of technique. Everything we do with a game plan is based on scouting and film study. The reason why she's being given so much line is because her favorite shot is cross court. If the hitter is given that much lineby the block, you don't want to be playing right on the line because the hitter would rather hit second line in the play (it's a higher percentage vs this block). So you, as the defender, take second line and force the hitter to paint the sideline. The read Courtney makes is a good one. She's just late with her platform - partly as has been mentioned - because she's not balanced - but also because of where/when she connects her hands. If the block was stopping her hitting second line, you'd be right though, Courtney would be playing line in that situation.
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