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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 16:08:57 GMT -5
I think our libero needs 3 qualities, in this order: Pass Pick up a tip Run down a ball behind the court So many digs happen because the ball happen to be hit where they are standing-I’m talking bullets. So, just stand where the scouting report told you, and you’ll probably get a few digs. Discuss. I think hitter coverage SHOULD be an important point for a libero, especially when there’s that one you can obviously tell is there every play ready. But as far as defense and scouting, yes it helps, but to a point. imo you need someone you can dig something straight at them no matter what speed, and also someone whose reactions are quick enough to make a fast play play to either side, or high or low. It’s those balls that you’re in the right spot for but it’s like 1 foot or 2 away and now it’s up to you to cut it off Being able to dig a ball that's straight at you "no matter what the speed" and being able to get a ball that's 2 feet away might sound like they're both achievable. They might even look like they're both achievable. But the way most players (even at the Olympic level) achieve the first one makes it very difficult to achieve the second.
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Post by jwvolley on Apr 15, 2020 16:12:58 GMT -5
While it’s very glaring when our bro’s don’t pick up tips, not sure that’s the specific number 2 quality needed. To me missing a tip is like overpassing a free ball. That's an absurd comparison.
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libro
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Post by libro on Apr 15, 2020 16:18:06 GMT -5
I think hitter coverage SHOULD be an important point for a libero, especially when there’s that one you can obviously tell is there every play ready. But as far as defense and scouting, yes it helps, but to a point. imo you need someone you can dig something straight at them no matter what speed, and also someone whose reactions are quick enough to make a fast play play to either side, or high or low. It’s those balls that you’re in the right spot for but it’s like 1 foot or 2 away and now it’s up to you to cut it off Being able to dig a ball that's straight at you "no matter what the speed" and being able to get a ball that's 2 feet away might sound like they're both achievable. They might even look like they're both achievable. But the way most players (even at the Olympic level) achieve the first one makes it very difficult to achieve the second. I can name a bunch who can. Both are do-able, even at the Olympic level. Players of that caliber know when to lunge right or left the moment they realize that ball isn’t being hit at them. It sounds crazy but it can be done
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Post by bbg95 on Apr 15, 2020 16:23:29 GMT -5
To me missing a tip is like overpassing a free ball. That's an absurd comparison. Agreed. Defending a well-placed tip is not that easy, and it's nowhere near as easy as not overpassing a free ball. That would be kind of like saying that a baseball player striking out on a changeup is the equivalent of dropping a popup.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Apr 15, 2020 16:24:11 GMT -5
To me missing a tip is like overpassing a free ball. If you're Nicole Davis you're equally great at both of those!
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 15, 2020 16:27:24 GMT -5
To me missing a tip is like overpassing a free ball. If you're Nicole Davis you're equally great at both of those! Truly, a multi-talented athlete.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 16:31:07 GMT -5
Being able to dig a ball that's straight at you "no matter what the speed" and being able to get a ball that's 2 feet away might sound like they're both achievable. They might even look like they're both achievable. But the way most players (even at the Olympic level) achieve the first one makes it very difficult to achieve the second. I can name a bunch who can. Both are do-able, even at the Olympic level. Players of that caliber know when to lunge right or left the moment they realize that ball isn’t being hit at them. It sounds crazy but it can be done It's not crazy at all but it's important to understand that both actions require opposing techniques. I guess I'm asking if you understand the technical differences between them and why it's so rare to see at the Olympic level - we have to leave the discussion about Hentz behind at this point in the conversation because, with all due respect to Jenny Mosser, she's not Isabelle Haak.
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libro
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Post by libro on Apr 15, 2020 16:36:19 GMT -5
I can name a bunch who can. Both are do-able, even at the Olympic level. Players of that caliber know when to lunge right or left the moment they realize that ball isn’t being hit at them. It sounds crazy but it can be done It's not crazy at all but it's important to understand that both actions require opposing techniques. I guess I'm asking if you understand the technical differences between them and why it's so rare to see at the Olympic level - we have to leave the discussion about Hentz behind at this point in the conversation because, with all due respect to Jenny Mosser, she's not Isabelle Haak. I completely agree, i am just one hopeful that she will start to get up to Haak speed. It’s time USA had some tenacious, athletic defense in their gym
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 16:51:51 GMT -5
It's not crazy at all but it's important to understand that both actions require opposing techniques. I guess I'm asking if you understand the technical differences between them and why it's so rare to see at the Olympic level - we have to leave the discussion about Hentz behind at this point in the conversation because, with all due respect to Jenny Mosser, she's not Isabelle Haak. I completely agree, i am just one hopeful that she will start to get up to Haak speed. It’s time USA had some tenacious, athletic defense in their gym Rather than Hentz, I'd use De Gennaro as a better example of a player that uses 'outside in' split-step (like Hentz) when in base to corner read. She stays so high on her toes and only split-steps after contact. This keeps her weight forward and allows her to lunge (as you put it). The problem is, that's not how most coaches teach defense in this country and it's not what we see in the USWNT. "Stopped on contact" is drilled into athletes at a young age, with the rationale that it'll help them dig balls, regardless of how hard they're hit, directly in their midline. The problem is that technique causes players to become so 'dug in' (weight back) that it's harder to react to a ball which is slightly off their midline. KGB, probably the best example of this technique, had phenomenal touch, but I'd argue that her technique marginalized the her natural athleticism and it's that technique (which she was taught and perfected) that made it so hard for her to pick up tips (at the Olympic level). I should add that defensive style notwithstanding, KGB was an absolute technician in her serve receive, which was the basis of her game and every Libero could learn from watching her. I just don't love her defensive technique.
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libro
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Post by libro on Apr 15, 2020 17:11:18 GMT -5
I completely agree, i am just one hopeful that she will start to get up to Haak speed. It’s time USA had some tenacious, athletic defense in their gym Rather than Hentz, I'd use De Gennaro as a better example of a player that uses 'outside in' split-step (like Hentz) when in base to corner read. She stays so high on her toes and only split-steps after contact. This keeps her weight forward and allows her to lunge (as you put it). The problem is, that's not how most coaches teach defense in this country and it's not what we see in the USWNT. "Stopped on contact" is drilled into athletes at a young age, with the rationale that it'll help them dig balls, regardless of how hard they're hit, directly in their midline. The problem is that technique causes players to become so 'dug in' (weight back) that it's harder to react to a ball which is slightly off their midline. KGB, probably the best example of this technique, had phenomenal touch, but I'd argue that her technique marginalized the her natural athleticism and it's that technique (which she was taught and perfected) that made it so hard for her to pick up tips (at the Olympic level). I should add that defensive style notwithstanding, KGB was an absolute technician in her serve receive, which was thebasis of her game and every Libero could learn from watching her. I just don't love her defensive technique. Banwarth incorporated some of what she learned from Cook at Nebraska, getting the hip around the ball to control it into the court. But I agree, she wasn’t as defensively exceptionally as her SR. She was allowed to play her defense in 6 and let her read more to get touches. I think part of De Gennaro being able to make that lunge/diving move to the left or right on hard driven balls is her reading that play so well too. Yes her reactions are unreal but also she just kind of believes outright that that ball isn’t being hit at her and she has to lunge for it away from midline. I know I sound drunk but i am not (yet)
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Post by azvb on Apr 15, 2020 18:16:01 GMT -5
To me missing a tip is like overpassing a free ball. That's an absurd comparison. Well, I’ve been stuck inside for 3 weeks, and I’m a little cranky.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 18:23:54 GMT -5
Rather than Hentz, I'd use De Gennaro as a better example of a player that uses 'outside in' split-step (like Hentz) when in base to corner read. She stays so high on her toes and only split-steps after contact. This keeps her weight forward and allows her to lunge (as you put it). The problem is, that's not how most coaches teach defense in this country and it's not what we see in the USWNT. "Stopped on contact" is drilled into athletes at a young age, with the rationale that it'll help them dig balls, regardless of how hard they're hit, directly in their midline. The problem is that technique causes players to become so 'dug in' (weight back) that it's harder to react to a ball which is slightly off their midline. KGB, probably the best example of this technique, had phenomenal touch, but I'd argue that her technique marginalized the her natural athleticism and it's that technique (which she was taught and perfected) that made it so hard for her to pick up tips (at the Olympic level). I should add that defensive style notwithstanding, KGB was an absolute technician in her serve receive, which was thebasis of her game and every Libero could learn from watching her. I just don't love her defensive technique. Banwarth incorporated some of what she learned from Cook at Nebraska, getting the hip around the ball to control it into the court. But I agree, she wasn’t as defensively exceptionally as her SR. She was allowed to play her defense in 6 and let her read more to get touches. I think part of De Gennaro being able to make that lunge/diving move to the left or right on hard driven balls is her reading that play so well too. Yes her reactions are unreal but also she just kind of believes outright that that ball isn’t being hit at her and she has to lunge for it away from midline. I know I sound drunk but i am not (yet) Yeah, Dr Gennaro's reading is great but she also uses independent arms really well. Lots of defenders, even at the Olympic level (I won't mention names but if you look for it you will spot them), always bring their platform together at their midline and then swing it to the left or right. Not only does this take longer but it also opens their shoulders and they can't control their angle. One thing De Gennaro does as well as anyone in the women's game is she will put one arm out to contact a ball that's outside her body and then bring the other arm to meet it and form her platform at the point of contact. Not only is this MUCH faster but it also gives her better control. Unfortunately, again, this technique is not taught early enough in our country.
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Post by Murina on Apr 15, 2020 18:53:33 GMT -5
...but she also uses independent arms really well. Lots of defenders, even at the Olympic level (I won't mention names but if you look for it you will spot them), always bring their platform together at their midline and then swing it to the left or right. Not only does this take longer but it also opens their shoulders and they can't control their angle. One thing De Gennaro does as well as anyone in the women's game is she will put one arm out to contact a ball that's outside her body and then bring the other arm to meet it and form her platform at the point of contact. Not only is this MUCH faster but it also gives her better control. Unfortunately, again, this technique is not taught early enough in our country. I've generally enjoyed this discussion, but this point... You are watching a different Moki DeGennaro than I know! She nearly always brings her hands together in her center as the hitter is contacting the ball, then tries to swing it out - sometimes she only swings one arm, but it usually comes from her center. I see De Gennaro as outstanding running down tipped/offspeed shots, and good at digging heat when it is at her waist. I don't generally see her as a great digger of heat outside her body. I'd use Sansonna & Parrocchiale as examples of players who dig heat outside their bodies fairly well, but both of them form their platforms in their mid-lines and swing... Independent arms is a great theory - I'm all for it! But it's hard to do and I honestly don't see much of it taking place in games - at least not in Italy and the USA.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 19:00:15 GMT -5
...but she also uses independent arms really well. Lots of defenders, even at the Olympic level (I won't mention names but if you look for it you will spot them), always bring their platform together at their midline and then swing it to the left or right. Not only does this take longer but it also opens their shoulders and they can't control their angle. One thing De Gennaro does as well as anyone in the women's game is she will put one arm out to contact a ball that's outside her body and then bring the other arm to meet it and form her platform at the point of contact. Not only is this MUCH faster but it also gives her better control. Unfortunately, again, this technique is not taught early enough in our country. I've generally enjoyed this discussion, but this point... You are watching a different Moki DeGennaro than I know! She nearly always brings her hands together in her center as the hitter is contacting the ball, then tries to swing it out - sometimes she only swings one arm, but it usually comes from her center. I see De Gennaro as outstanding running down tipped/offspeed shots, and good at digging heat when it is at her waist. I don't generally see her as a great digger of heat outside her body. I'd use Sansonna & Parrocchiale as examples of players who dig heat outside their bodies fairly well, but both of them form their platforms in their mid-lines and swing... Independent arms is a great theory - I'm all for it! But it's hard to do and I honestly don't see much of it taking place in games - at least not in Italy and the USA. She definitely doesn't use it all the time. But more than I've seen other female players of her generation. As far as hands together on contact, watch her closely. She's still split stepping on contact. I agree that it isn't used enough in the women's game, but I think that is beginning to change. Edit: In terms of seeing it in games, Jenia and Danani both use independant arms well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 19:51:47 GMT -5
With Kelsey doing so well at OH overseas and recently for USA I just love that Larson/Robinson OH tandem that can pass exceptionally. Then have a better defensive libero that can hopefully grow in SR as this extra time hopefully allots I wouldn't say Kelsey is doing "so well" overseas. She hit .250 for the year at Fenerbahce in Turkish league play, with 2.5 kills per set. Not awful, but nothing really to write home about. However, if you just look at her matches against the top teams in the Turkish league (Ecz, Vakif, and Galta) in both Turkish league and CEV play, she hit .167 with 2.26 kills per set. She had a good summer against weaker competition in 2019, and posters seem to think that her history of offensive struggles (and I'm saying this as a KRob fan) have just gone away. I'm more skeptical. I agree with others that I think she'll have a bigger impact at the libero position. I cannot argue with you on this. The whole 2019 International season was a joke for USA except for China at the world cup. However based on her performance....Karch won't use her as a Libero. Period. He "knows" things....lol.
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