Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:01:29 GMT -5
Did JWO eventually win out the starting spot on her German team? I'm not sold on her at all. No. That is equally if not more a political move by the coach. He is the German NT head coach and Pogany is the teams starting Libero. There is definitely bias there. I wouldn't count JWO out for this reason alone. She definitely came in for Megan Courtney during the World Cup and OUTPLAYED her. Period. She even passed better there towards the end. The pendulum has definitely shifted in JWO's favor. Imagine how much better she would have been if Karch had let her play through the 2018 season instead of Robinson? Both players failed to improve at their primary positions due to Karch's gamble....and it didn't pay off. At. All.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Apr 15, 2020 20:03:20 GMT -5
So I went back and looked at the VolleyMetrics stats from the 2016 Olympics.
Banworth was indeed the best passing libero at the games but ranked 11th of 12 in defensive touch percentage (ahead of only Puerto Rico's liberos because they used two). That would suggest that she should at least be accurate in her zone. However, she ranked LAST in Dig%. So she wasn't responsible for much court AND she shanked more dig attempts than any other libero. Yikes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:07:41 GMT -5
I think we'll see two liberos in Tokyo: Robinson and someone else. A fourth dedicated OH seems unnecessary (and Karch didn't take one to Rio) since Robinson would be able to play there if an injury requires it. While planning for an injury to an OH didn't matter to him for RIo since he only took three, Karch also might be rethinking roster composition since Akinradewo's injury forced him to put a banged up Harmotto in a crucial match.
2020 will be interesting to follow, if the international season ever gets played. This will be the second summer after Robinson's libero experiment -- meaning Karch will have had two full years to develop someone else.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Apr 15, 2020 20:12:38 GMT -5
That is equally if not more a political move by the coach. He is the German NT head coach and Pogany is the teams starting Libero. There is definitely bias there. I wouldn't count JWO out for this reason alone. She definitely came in for Megan Courtney during the World Cup and OUTPLAYED her. Period. She even passed better there towards the end. The pendulum has definitely shifted in JWO's favor. Imagine how much better she would have been if Karch had let her play through the 2018 season instead of Robinson? Both players failed to improve at their primary positions due to Karch's gamble....and it didn't pay off. At. All. JWO decided to not play pro the season before that. Our libero position has been awful. I think the standard needs to be set that playing pro is a minimum requirement (even though it doesn't pay well). In terms of all of these excuses for American players... Can we not get our players better agents? Why would she sign with a team where she wouldn't start for political reasons? Why was Carlini playing somewhere that is clearly terrible for her? Why was Plummer playing for a coach that posters here think was clueless? Or just MAYBE those coaches don't care about their college hype. MAYBE those coaches value something other than their fit into a specific system. And the market for those players wasn't what their VolleyTalk stans believed it to be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:15:17 GMT -5
So I went back and looked at the VolleyMetrics stats from the 2016 Olympics. Banworth was indeed the best passing libero at the games but ranked 11th of 12 in defensive touch percentage (ahead of only Puerto Rico's liberos because they used two). That would suggest that she should at least be accurate in her zone. However, she ranked LAST in Dig%. So she wasn't responsible for much court AND she shanked more dig attempts than any other libero. Yikes. If you really want a horror show, pull up the game film and sort attacks by Tip only. See how big her initial negative step is!
|
|
|
Post by Murina on Apr 15, 2020 20:26:15 GMT -5
I get the whys, but it's still kinda crazy to think that April 12, 2011 is the last day that USA had a clear libero that most everyone agreed was world class. The day before the bus crashed in Sao Paulo.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:30:36 GMT -5
I get the whys, but it's still kinda crazy to think that April 12, 2011 is the last day that USA had a clear libero that most everyone agreed was world class. The day before the bus crashed in Sao Paulo. Please elaborate for those of us who are new "ish" to following the sport.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:36:36 GMT -5
BTW I LOVE this thread. I really appreciate everyone explaining their arguments in such detail. I am learning a lot about the Libero position. As someone who is relatively new to following the sport all i have to go on is what I see our players do vs. others at the top of their positions. It is a little disheartening to read that the technique taught here in the USA is quite different from what is used elsewhere but it does illuminate the issues that seem to continue to plague USA volleyball.
Is there another American coach that would be a viable option to replace Karch? Is that even a reality? He, once again, seems to be the problem. Though I do think that as long as the USA continues to medal his job is more than secure.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Apr 15, 2020 20:36:41 GMT -5
I get the whys, but it's still kinda crazy to think that April 12, 2011 is the last day that USA had a clear libero that most everyone agreed was world class. The day before the bus crashed in Sao Paulo. Please elaborate for those of us who are new "ish" to following the sport. They seem to be referring to this, an accident that injured Stacy Sykora.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:37:55 GMT -5
I wonder if USAV would ever consider Luka Slabe to take over the helm as head coach?I wonder what changes he would implement given full control of the program?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 20:40:15 GMT -5
Please elaborate for those of us who are new "ish" to following the sport. They seem to be referring to this, an accident that injured Stacy Sykora. Is that why she didn't make the London roster? That seems like plenty of time to recover? Did she have complications?
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Apr 15, 2020 20:42:28 GMT -5
They seem to be referring to this, an accident that injured Stacy Sykora. Is that why she didn't make the London roster? That seems like plenty of time to recover? Did she have complications? Yeah, she retired in 2013 as a result of the accident. It was a pretty serious injury. She was in a coma and hospitalized for more than a month.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Apr 15, 2020 20:51:43 GMT -5
I wonder if USAV would ever consider Luka Slabe to take over the helm as head coach?I wonder what changes he would implement given full control of the program? Therein lies the problem. I think that ever since Lang Ping left the team there has been an extreme top-to-bottom emphasis on system (and one derived from men's volleyball -- both head coaches we've had since her were both really men's coaches). If there's a coach that doesn't love the current USAV style of play, they're probably not coaching anywhere within USA Volleyball.
|
|
|
Post by jwvolley on Apr 15, 2020 21:00:05 GMT -5
Is there another American coach that would be a viable option to replace Karch? Is that even a reality? He, once again, seems to be the problem. Though I do think that as long as the USA continues to medal his job is more than secure. Possibly unpopular opinion but I don't really feel like his first quad was the failure everyone seems to think it was. 13-15 fifth set loss in the semis with our best middle injured doesn't scream terrible to me. Post Rio has been a different story, but there have at least been some clearly necessary cuts that took place (sorry Lloyd, Gibby and Murph). Do we really want to put Robinson in that position to get roofed again? (lol jk jk, I know she's much improved).
|
|
|
Post by Murina on Apr 15, 2020 21:07:23 GMT -5
BTW I LOVE this thread. I really appreciate everyone explaining their arguments in such detail. I am learning a lot about the Libero position. As someone who is relatively new to following the sport all i have to go on is what I see our players do vs. others at the top of their positions. It is a little disheartening to read that the technique taught here in the USA is quite different from what is used elsewhere but it does illuminate the issues that seem to continue to plague USA volleyball. Is there another American coach that would be a viable option to replace Karch? Is that even a reality? He, once again, seems to be the problem. Though I do think that as long as the USA continues to medal his job is more than secure. A. In the USA there are dozens (hundreds?) of different takes on how to teach volleyball, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. It has its positives & negatives. B. What you get in countries like Italy & Serbia is a week long national coaching school that every coach is required to go through and continually get updated. How each coach interprets what they learned in the school is up to them, but they all have a very similar base of knowledge. It's a lot easier in a country like Italy that has as many citizens as the USA has minor children - let alone a country as small as Serbia. C. Other countries have different goals - the goal for a junior player in Europe is to become a professional volleyball player, and the goal of the clubs is to create professional volleyball players. The goals for clubs in the USA are to have as many people playing organized volleyball as possible, and make some college players, and to not get sued. D. I don't see the lack of quality libero falling in Kiraly's lap. Yeah, the buck has to stop somewhere, but there are some things that are out of the control of the head coach of the USA National Team. I think you could take your pick of Guidetti, Lang, Terzic...they would all have the same problem if they were the coach of USA.
|
|