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Post by volleydadtx on Jul 30, 2020 10:34:02 GMT -5
Does anyone care that k12 and under have had less then 20 deaths in the US? Let the kids play and be recruited. Leave Gma and Gpa at home, and let the kids compete. they are in more danger of a traffic accident on the way to the arena then Covid-19. Just stating the factual statistics, and I know that's not gonna sit well with those of you who don't know the numbers. Good question, do you care that 292 nurses and almost 1000 total health care workers are dead? Just stating the factual statistics, and I know that's not gonna sit well with those of you who don't know the numbers. www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85867www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/17/covid-19-coronavirus-healthcare-workers-deathsif it saves JUST ONE LIFE, we need everything shut down. Go ahead and close the streets and highways while you're at it. As well as walking around the block, going fishing, and anything else that might possibly put your life in danger. Shelter in place and watch CNN until Anderson Cooper and Christ Cuomo tell you it's safe again.
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Post by JT on Jul 30, 2020 11:12:08 GMT -5
if it saves JUST ONE LIFE, we need everything shut down. Go ahead and close the streets and highways while you're at it. As well as walking around the block, going fishing, and anything else that might possibly put your life in danger. Shelter in place and watch CNN until Anderson Cooper and Christ Cuomo tell you it's safe again. Straw man... but I bet you have great arguments about the position you’ve imagined is against yours. They are finding that (shock) kids can get infected too. And that they can pass it on to adults. They are finding that around three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with “mild” cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage. Until we can get this under control (and a “flattening” 9000 per day in Texas is NOT under control) we need to tighten restrictions. No, we don’t need to close the roads and everyone hide at home, but non essential contacts — and yes, that includes sports — need to be limited or eliminated for now. If and when we can actually get things down to 1-3% positive tests, and actually do contact tracing of everyone who has been infected, THEN we can see about opening things up, with some safeguards in place (masks, distancing). Until we can, we are just continuing to make it worse, and f*cking things up for ourselves.
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Post by eazy on Jul 30, 2020 11:21:20 GMT -5
Exactly and Ready to get fried : 2 of my kids played in the tournament and it was a treat getting some vacation time, in a very empty Orlando after MONTHS of this new normal. We love to travel and if this is all we get since Europe and SA shut us down, will happily take it. BTW- my older vb player DID get an email from a College Coach that saw her play at the tournament. So whoo hoo! Bottom line: None of us got sick (5 plus 1 at home working at a water park), we wore our masks EVERYWHERE as mandated and had a welcome change of pace in this craziness. So glad the tournament went off and you all were able to safely enjoy it! Even better that you received correspondence from a college coach. So far the "unscientific posting poll" is four allegedly positive tests. Out of 6000 participants that is 0.00067%...and folks are ready to sue and bankrupt AAU. Disney seems to be doing well with their protocols as haven't read anything of outbreaks. Point being that proper protocols can be effective. Will it totally stop it...nope, but it can greatly reduce risk. That's a bit of a misrepresentation of facts... That "four allegedly positive tests" is not out of 6000 participants. It is out of that subset of those 6000 participants that have allegedly tested positive, have a VT account, and chose to post about it. That shrinks the pool quite a bit. By no means am I saying it didn't work well or it shouldn't have happened. Just be more transparent with your numbers. For what it's worth, I've heard people say it was a great tournament that was run very safely, but will be very hard to recreate. All the extra precautions they took must have really hit their wallets. How many big tournaments will be willing to space the courts out that much, not use the same court for AM/PM, limit the number of teams, limit the number of spectators, etc?
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Post by dman on Jul 30, 2020 11:25:40 GMT -5
So glad the tournament went off and you all were able to safely enjoy it! Even better that you received correspondence from a college coach. So far the "unscientific posting poll" is four allegedly positive tests. Out of 6000 participants that is 0.00067%...and folks are ready to sue and bankrupt AAU. Disney seems to be doing well with their protocols as haven't read anything of outbreaks. Point being that proper protocols can be effective. Will it totally stop it...nope, but it can greatly reduce risk. That's a bit of a misrepresentation of facts... That "four allegedly positive tests" is not out of 6000 participants. It is out of that subset of those 6000 participants that have allegedly tested positive, have a VT account, and chose to post about it. That shrinks the pool quite a bit. By no means am I saying it didn't work well or it shouldn't have happened. Just be more transparent with your numbers. For what it's worth, I've heard people say it was a great tournament that was run very safely, but will be very hard to recreate. All the extra precautions they took must have really hit their wallets. How many big tournaments will be willing to space the courts out that much, not use the same court for AM/PM, limit the number of teams, limit the number of spectators, etc? Yes, that's correct eazy but my point is it appears at this point the numbers are low; not the devastation some here were fearing. Cost may not be as outrageous as you think...I'm sure that convention centers/hotels/etc would be willing to negotiate a deal to allow the cost point to be manageable and profitable.
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Post by n00b on Jul 30, 2020 11:45:22 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I've heard people say it was a great tournament that was run very safely, but will be very hard to recreate. All the extra precautions they took must have really hit their wallets. How many big tournaments will be willing to space the courts out that much, not use the same court for AM/PM, limit the number of teams, limit the number of spectators, etc? Two points here. 1) I agree that there’s no way AAU made any significant amount of money for this event. I think they used it as a way to take advantage of their position as an influential, national body showing how to run a safe event. I think the people who blame this tournament on AAU doing it for the money are likely way off base (although I have no access to their actual financials). 2) I think there are some things that AAU did just because they could, not necessarily because they HAD to. Reducing courts drastically has to happen. Maybe not quite by 50%. I also think you could run two waves. Back when teams actually went to SPVB events, they used the Dome at Rosemont which didn’t have nearly enough parking for two waves of teams. So the AM wave started at 7:30am, the PM wave started at 4pm. Yeah, 9pm matches suck, but it’s doable. Then you have a full 2 hours between waves. You could also drop to 6 teams per two courts. That pool format still gives 3 matches but takes less than the full six hours. Your main point is absolutely true and the financial model is going to change drastically. But I also think convention centers and city tourism departments are going to be desperate for tenants. So tournaments might be able to negotiate better deals that allow them to break even in 2021 with the hope of returning to normal in ‘22. .
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Post by dgo on Jul 30, 2020 11:52:15 GMT -5
if it saves JUST ONE LIFE, we need everything shut down. Go ahead and close the streets and highways while you're at it. As well as walking around the block, going fishing, and anything else that might possibly put your life in danger. Shelter in place and watch CNN until Anderson Cooper and Christ Cuomo tell you it's safe again. They are finding that around three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with “mild” cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage.Who is "they" and can you provide a link for this? I hadn't heard this.
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Post by JT on Jul 30, 2020 11:59:01 GMT -5
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Post by volleydadtx on Jul 30, 2020 14:01:13 GMT -5
They are finding that around three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with “mild” cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage. That is utter nonsense. A study of 100 participants isn't exactly scientific. This will be debunked. We don't know the long term effects, because we don't have any long-term recoveries. Check back in 10 years. Until then, shut everything down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2020 14:39:22 GMT -5
With regards to collegiate volleyball, all of the staff and athletes that I know of who have had an infection were given an EKG prior to being given the all-clear. So far, I've not heard of a single athlete or member of a coaching staff that has not been cleared... Caveats; I'm not suggesting say long term complications aren't a factor; I suspect they are. My sample size is also less than 100, so by no means conclusive. But I don't think it's accurate to suggest that 3/4 of all infections result in long term heart damage. The study quoted only looked at patients over 40 and 1/3 of those had been hospitalized, whereas a far smaller proportion of the actual cases have led to hospitalization. So while, as I've posted, this isn't simply a binary issue of: you die or you're fine, attempting to estimate the likelihood of long term health issues caused by the virus in the general population is premature at this stage.
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Post by JT on Jul 30, 2020 14:51:22 GMT -5
With regards to collegiate volleyball, all of the staff and athletes that I know of who have had an infection were given an EKG prior to being given the all-clear. So far, I've not heard of a single athlete or member of a coaching staff that has not been cleared... Caveats; I'm not suggesting say long term complications aren't a factor; I suspect they are. My sample size is also less than 100, so by no means conclusive. But I don't think it's accurate to suggest that 3/4 of all infections result in long term heart damage. The study quoted only looked at patients over 40 and 1/3 of those had been hospitalized, whereas a far smaller proportion of the actual cases have led to hospitalization. So while, as I've posted, this isn't simply a binary issue of: you die or you're fine, attempting to estimate the likelihood of long term health issues caused by the virus in the general population is premature at this stage. As noted in the article, an EKG wouldn’t detect the inflammation. They used an MRI for that. I agree that more studies are needed, including a study with a control group (maybe heart muscle inflammation has become widespread without being recognized, and not due to Covid). But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be considered when deciding whether and how to open (or shut down) non-essential activities which risk spreading the virus.
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Post by dman on Jul 30, 2020 14:54:43 GMT -5
With regards to collegiate volleyball, all of the staff and athletes that I know of who have had an infection were given an EKG prior to being given the all-clear. So far, I've not heard of a single athlete or member of a coaching staff that has not been cleared... Caveats; I'm not suggesting say long term complications aren't a factor; I suspect they are. My sample size is also less than 100, so by no means conclusive. But I don't think it's accurate to suggest that 3/4 of all infections result in long term heart damage. The study quoted only looked at patients over 40 and 1/3 of those had been hospitalized, whereas a far smaller proportion of the actual cases have led to hospitalization. So while, as I've posted, this isn't simply a binary issue of: you die or you're fine, attempting to estimate the likelihood of long term health issues caused by the virus in the general population is premature at this stage. As noted in the article, an EKG wouldn’t detect the inflammation. They used an MRI for that. I agree that more studies are needed, including a study with a control group (maybe heart muscle inflammation has become widespread without being recognized, and not due to Covid). But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be considered when deciding whether and how to open (or shut down) non-essential activities which risk spreading the virus. There are also cardiac enzymes that would show elevation on lab work as well.
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Post by n00b on Jul 30, 2020 14:54:57 GMT -5
With regards to collegiate volleyball, all of the staff and athletes that I know of who have had an infection were given an EKG prior to being given the all-clear. So far, I've not heard of a single athlete or member of a coaching staff that has not been cleared... Caveats; I'm not suggesting say long term complications aren't a factor; I suspect they are. My sample size is also less than 100, so by no means conclusive. But I don't think it's accurate to suggest that 3/4 of all infections result in long term heart damage. The study quoted only looked at patients over 40 and 1/3 of those had been hospitalized, whereas a far smaller proportion of the actual cases have led to hospitalization. So while, as I've posted, this isn't simply a binary issue of: you die or you're fine, attempting to estimate the likelihood of long term health issues caused by the virus in the general population is premature at this stage. As noted in the article, an EKG wouldn’t detect the inflammation. They used an MRI for that. I agree that more studies are needed, including a study with a control group (maybe heart muscle inflammation has become widespread without being recognized, and not due to Covid). But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be considered when deciding whether and how to open (or shut down) non-essential activities which risk spreading the virus. I can almost guarantee my heart is less healthy than when COVID began. This is what happens when I only work from home and lounge in my house all day. Alcohol (and potato chip) consumption has also risen drastically.
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Post by dgo on Jul 30, 2020 15:12:06 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I hadn't seen that. It's something that I hope will get further research. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but as I read the linked article (I have not looked at the underlying study) it says that this the MRIs show inflammation "which is the first prerequisite for heart failure and, over a longer period of time, could 'leave important residual damage' that could 'set up the scenario' for other forms of heart disease" (emphasis mine). The article doesn't say that the study found "damage" in over three quarters of survivors. In fact, it seems careful to be keeping several steps away from saying that. They found inflamation...it's a precursor that over time could result in damage. That's not to say it's not something that is concerning that should be looked at. It absolutely is. But it's well short of saying that "three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with 'mild' cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage."
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Post by dman on Jul 30, 2020 15:28:20 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I hadn't seen that. It's something that I hope will get further research. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but as I read the linked article (I have not looked at the underlying study) it says that this the MRIs show inflammation "which is the first prerequisite for heart failure and, over a longer period of time, could 'leave important residual damage' that could 'set up the scenario' for other forms of heart disease" (emphasis mine). The article doesn't say that the study found "damage" in over three quarters of survivors. In fact, it seems careful to be keeping several steps away from saying that. They found inflamation...it's a precursor that over time could result in damage. That's not to say it's not something that is concerning that should be looked at. It absolutely is. But it's well short of saying that "three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with 'mild' cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage." That's correct dgo, just a precursor. Any foreign entity to the body will stimulate an inflammatory response. The question is this specific to cardiac muscle tissue. There is more to the diagnostics than just an MRI. If you are finding a great number of cases that are showing actual destruction of cardiac tissue as well as affecting rhythm then we have something to really pay attention to. I'd need to see a good sample size with more findings than MRI, if this is the case.
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Post by JT on Jul 30, 2020 15:58:58 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. I hadn't seen that. It's something that I hope will get further research. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but as I read the linked article (I have not looked at the underlying study) it says that this the MRIs show inflammation "which is the first prerequisite for heart failure and, over a longer period of time, could 'leave important residual damage' that could 'set up the scenario' for other forms of heart disease" (emphasis mine). The article doesn't say that the study found "damage" in over three quarters of survivors. In fact, it seems careful to be keeping several steps away from saying that. They found inflamation...it's a precursor that over time could result in damage. That's not to say it's not something that is concerning that should be looked at. It absolutely is. But it's well short of saying that "three quarters of the SURVIVORS, including those with 'mild' cases, have what appears to be long-term / permanent heart damage." Just scanned the JAMA article itself. 73 of the participants had elevated T1, indicating a past heart injury/stress. 60 of them -also- had elevated T2 levels, indicating that the injury/stress was ongoing... 2+ months after their initial Covid diagnosis.
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