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Post by vbnerd on Sept 21, 2020 9:41:21 GMT -5
NCAA policy has regularly make exceptions for religion and the military as things that are commonly viewed as being bigger than sports.
As for no-Sunday play, it's not JUST BYU. In D3 Calvin, Hope and Northwestern all operate under the same exemption and I imagine there are others.
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Post by atticus on Sept 21, 2020 10:05:30 GMT -5
I tend to agree with you, but in the real world, that is not how it works. The NCAA has always made accommodations for BYU's religious restrictions. Well, they should reconsider such preferential treatment of religion. The NCAA allows flexibility in scheduling/re-scheduling championships when a university’s religious observances would prevent them from being able to participate. In the 50ish years the NCAA has allowed for this, it really hasn’t been needed all that often. When the NCAA considered reversing course in this policy in the 90s, the list of schools that protested the change was at least a hundred schools long and included plenty of non-religious schools like Georgia, Michigan, Nebraska, Stanford, Texas A&M, the University of Southern California, and the Naval and Air Force Academies. Many other D1 powerhouses like Duke and Baylor agreed too. Why did they care since they all play on Sundays? Having respect for other people’s deeply-held beliefs (religious or otherwise) and allowing accommodation for them where possible without significant negative impact to others helps build a better society.
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Post by n00b on Sept 21, 2020 11:03:26 GMT -5
I am from an area that is not very Mormon and our high school state championship every year was on a Sunday. One year, a team with a couple of Mormons on it made it to the finals. Their church gave them a special dispensation so they could play. Perhaps the church would do the same here?
I know women’s soccer has been debating this very issue because they’ve always scheduled their national championship for a Sunday and BYU is becoming more and more competitive on the national level.
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Post by oldnewbie on Sept 21, 2020 11:25:35 GMT -5
I am from an area that is not very Mormon and our high school state championship every year was on a Sunday. One year, a team with a couple of Mormons on it made it to the finals. Their church gave them a special dispensation so they could play. Perhaps the church would do the same here? I know women’s soccer has been debating this very issue because they’ve always scheduled their national championship for a Sunday and BYU is becoming more and more competitive on the national level. The church has done that in the past for individuals, notably Steve Young.
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Post by atticus on Sept 21, 2020 12:36:09 GMT -5
BYU will not change their policy about the school’s Sunday play. Individual members of the LDS church have always been allowed to choose for themselves how to observe the sabbath and the church doesn’t get involved with those personal choices. On an institution-wide level though the church and its universities won’t participate on Sundays. They articulated this in 1998 when the NCAA last publicly evaluated the policy. Campbell was another university who had the same policy at the time.
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Post by crando on Sept 21, 2020 13:24:10 GMT -5
Well, they should reconsider such preferential treatment of religion. Having respect for other people’s deeply-held beliefs (religious or otherwise) and allowing accommodation for them where possible without significant negative impact to others helps build a better society. Well stated. I am not Mormon, and don't have any particular affiliation towards BYU. But the university's position has been clear for decades, and I agree that "the right thing to do" is for the NCAA to make these accommodations -- not assigning BYU to regionals/sub-regionals that plan Sunday play, starting one baseball/softball regional on Thursday instead of Friday as needed, and even up to moving the NCAA finals from Sunday if/when the Cougars seem likely to get there. Those are small changes in the big picture, and they allow BYU to accomplish what they feel to be big things.
Our society has reached a point where a lot of people only talk, and never listen to others. A better society involves asking "why is that important to you," and "how can we make this work for both sides," instead of just saying "that's not how I do it so you must be wrong." And it is nice to hear that a wide variety of colleges also stood up for that point. Soapbox mode now Off.
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Post by ay2013 on Sept 21, 2020 16:51:34 GMT -5
Well, they should reconsider such preferential treatment of religion. The NCAA allows flexibility in scheduling/re-scheduling championships when a university’s religious observances would prevent them from being able to participate. In the 50ish years the NCAA has allowed for this, it really hasn’t been needed all that often. When the NCAA considered reversing course in this policy in the 90s, the list of schools that protested the change was at least a hundred schools long and included plenty of non-religious schools like Georgia, Michigan, Nebraska, Stanford, Texas A&M, the University of Southern California, and the Naval and Air Force Academies. Many other D1 powerhouses like Duke and Baylor agreed too. Why did they care since they all play on Sundays? Having respect for other people’s deeply-held beliefs (religious or otherwise) and allowing accommodation for them where possible without significant negative impact to others helps build a better society. The question isn’t whether or not the NCAA DOES allow flexibility, it’s whether or not they should, given circumstances. I’m all for accommodation, in particular if it’s without negative impact. I was referring specifically to the idea that the championship match being on Sunday - which entails promotion and media rights and specific planning for the entire year being moved, at the last minute, just to accommodate one schools religious belief, should that school be playing for the title. I take that to be a “significant negative impact”. Such an accommodation should not be granted. I would even suggest that not putting them in specific regionals/sub-regionals that schedule Sunday (as a poster previously has said) is also a negative impact as it affects the fair, objective bracketing principles all the other schools live by.
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Post by n00b on Sept 21, 2020 18:19:39 GMT -5
The NCAA allows flexibility in scheduling/re-scheduling championships when a university’s religious observances would prevent them from being able to participate. In the 50ish years the NCAA has allowed for this, it really hasn’t been needed all that often. When the NCAA considered reversing course in this policy in the 90s, the list of schools that protested the change was at least a hundred schools long and included plenty of non-religious schools like Georgia, Michigan, Nebraska, Stanford, Texas A&M, the University of Southern California, and the Naval and Air Force Academies. Many other D1 powerhouses like Duke and Baylor agreed too. Why did they care since they all play on Sundays? Having respect for other people’s deeply-held beliefs (religious or otherwise) and allowing accommodation for them where possible without significant negative impact to others helps build a better society. The question isn’t whether or not the NCAA DOES allow flexibility, it’s whether or not they should, given circumstances. I’m all for accommodation, in particular if it’s without negative impact. I was referring specifically to the idea that the championship match being on Sunday - which entails promotion and media rights and specific planning for the entire year being moved, at the last minute, just to accommodate one schools religious belief, should that school be playing for the title. I take that to be a “significant negative impact”. Such an accommodation should not be granted. I would even suggest that not putting them in specific regionals/sub-regionals that schedule Sunday (as a poster previously has said) is also a negative impact as it affects the fair, objective bracketing principles all the other schools live by. We actually don't what what the NCAA or BYU would do if one of their teams ends up on a Sunday championship. Women's basketball also has a Final Four game on a Sunday, right? I can see the university/church allowing it only in those circumstances. ONLY a final four/championship because there aren't alternatives and they are presumably locked in dates that can't be altered. That's very different than accepting it for early rounds of tournaments, where BYU participates every year in multiple sports.
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Post by atticus on Sept 22, 2020 9:52:44 GMT -5
The question isn’t whether or not the NCAA DOES allow flexibility, it’s whether or not they should, given circumstances. I’m all for accommodation, in particular if it’s without negative impact. I was referring specifically to the idea that the championship match being on Sunday - which entails promotion and media rights and specific planning for the entire year being moved, at the last minute, just to accommodate one schools religious belief, should that school be playing for the title. I take that to be a “significant negative impact”. Such an accommodation should not be granted. I would even suggest that not putting them in specific regionals/sub-regionals that schedule Sunday (as a poster previously has said) is also a negative impact as it affects the fair, objective bracketing principles all the other schools live by. We actually don't what what the NCAA or BYU would do if one of their teams ends up on a Sunday championship. Women's basketball also has a Final Four game on a Sunday, right? I can see the university/church allowing it only in those circumstances. ONLY a final four/championship because there aren't alternatives and they are presumably locked in dates that can't be altered. That's very different than accepting it for early rounds of tournaments, where BYU participates every year in multiple sports. I’m as certain that BYU wouldn’t play in a championship game on Sunday as I am that Eric Liddell won’t race in the Olympics on Sunday the next time someone turns on Chariots of Fire. (I’m dating myself here, aren’t I?)
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Post by Rutgers fan on Sept 22, 2020 10:45:53 GMT -5
The subject title for this has taken a complete nosedive
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Post by vbnerd on Sept 22, 2020 11:28:49 GMT -5
The question isn’t whether or not the NCAA DOES allow flexibility, it’s whether or not they should, given circumstances. I’m all for accommodation, in particular if it’s without negative impact. I was referring specifically to the idea that the championship match being on Sunday - which entails promotion and media rights and specific planning for the entire year being moved, at the last minute, just to accommodate one schools religious belief, should that school be playing for the title. I take that to be a “significant negative impact”. Such an accommodation should not be granted. I would even suggest that not putting them in specific regionals/sub-regionals that schedule Sunday (as a poster previously has said) is also a negative impact as it affects the fair, objective bracketing principles all the other schools live by. We actually don't what what the NCAA or BYU would do if one of their teams ends up on a Sunday championship. Women's basketball also has a Final Four game on a Sunday, right? I can see the university/church allowing it only in those circumstances. ONLY a final four/championship because there aren't alternatives and they are presumably locked in dates that can't be altered. That's very different than accepting it for early rounds of tournaments, where BYU participates every year in multiple sports. My understanding of the rule is that once a school agrees to play on a Sunday they can never go back. And yes, we are FAR from the original topic of the thread. For those looking for more information on the Council meeting, the NCAA did a podcast on it.
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