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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 11:19:52 GMT -5
What if, stay with me on this, what if had decided to have lived our lives as normal(ish) as possible, keeping in mind the certain part of the population who truly needed to be protected? Maybe we wouldn't have folded businesses, or have a large amount of people unemployed, or kids falling behind in school, or worse than that see the number of teen suicides go up? They told us we needed to stay in our house for two weeks, then it was the necessity of mask use, now it's that the vaccine is the answer. THEN they say that you should probably still wear a mask even if you've HAD the shots. Can you blame some people for being jaded, weary, and wary? What if we had decided to have lived our lives as normal(ish) as possible? Oh, you mean the way that India did after it thought that it had COVID beaten? How's that going? www.cnn.com/2021/04/29/india/india-covid-deaths-crematoriums-intl-hnk-dst/index.html. Or maybe you want to call it the Brazil strategy? Let's see how that's working. www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/04/29/992243462/brazil-covid-19-deaths-top-400-000-amid-fears-of-worsening-crisis. Brazil--- 401,186 Covid deaths DIVIDED BY 212,559,417 total population = .002 MULTIPLY BY 100 ( ) = .20 as a percentage (Please someone double check my math) India---- This was the best that I found when I googled number of Covid deaths in India 200,000 deaths DIVIDED BY 19.2m cases = .011 MULTIPLY BY 100 = 1.1 as a percentage. Those numbers seem pretty much in line with what we have. Again if my manipulation of these numbers is wrong, I am more than willing to listen and acknowledge.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 11:33:19 GMT -5
It's pretty clear that authoritarian leaders who told their country to just ignore COVID and go about their usual business had abysmal records of death. It seems to me that Governors in the States who have declared "temporary" State of emergency acts haven't necessarily fared better than their counterparts who have "loosened" their control of the situation and have allowed citizens to resume normal(ish) activities when it comes to battling Covid. Please understand, I'm not saying that we should "ignore" Covid. I'm saying that we have enabled a lot of safety measures and precautions that were/are unnecessary and sometimes illogical. Some of those measures have conceivably done more damage to us as a society than Covid would've when you keep in mind that over 98% of those who have had Covid have recovered. And that only 10% of our US population have reportedly come in contact with Covid. Let's protect those who the virus seriously affects the most. To me it's ludicrous that I got my shots way before a lot of the elderly and most vulnerable got them. But that's what the government dictated.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 12:37:14 GMT -5
You do realize that there are survivors that struggle, right. That you're measuring things by deaths. You may want to ask a whole lot of survivors how they are doing because life isn't rosy for everyone that way.
Polio didn't just kill people. A lot were crippled.
Everyone gets it. You don't like masks, don't want mandatory vaccines. You want your 'murican freedom without recognizing that your freedom ends the minute it interferes with someone else's greater right to survive or not be made death;y ill by your selfishness.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 13:04:26 GMT -5
You do realize that there are survivors that struggle, right. That you're measuring things by deaths. You may want to ask a whole lot of survivors how they are doing because life isn't rosy for everyone that way. Polio didn't just kill people. A lot were crippled. Everyone gets it. You don't like masks, don't want mandatory vaccines. You want your 'murican freedom without recognizing that your freedom ends the minute it interferes with someone else's greater right to survive or not be made death;y ill by your selfishness. I also realize that survivors do just that, they survive. They are alive and have an opportunity to go on living in some capacity. I feel like you might be missing the forest because of the one tree that your face is pressed up against. That tree is that people can die because they contracted the virus. We do not live in a Utopia of our own creation. Bad things happen and unfortunately people do die. The forest is that dying, in this case, is an unlikely occurrence as seen by the 98% majority of those who have been afflicted by the virus and survived. You talk about a whole lot of survivors who's lives aren't rosy but you didn't mention the whole lot of survivors who didn't even know they had Covid because their symptoms were slight or non existent. Acknowledge both sides of the coin. I try to. Your last sentence had a heavy amount of condescension and hyperbole so all I will say to that is; I wear masks in public as mandated and I got the vaccine. Just because we disagree doesn't mean that I'm selfish. In truth I have taken steps that go against what I believe, where's the selfishness in that? Anything else you need to say should either be about Colorado Crossroads or continued on another forum.
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Post by isaacspaceman on May 1, 2021 16:20:01 GMT -5
Brazil--- 401,186 Covid deaths DIVIDED BY 212,559,417 total population = .002 MULTIPLY BY 100 ( ) = .20 as a percentage (Please someone double check my math) India---- This was the best that I found when I googled number of Covid deaths in India 200,000 deaths DIVIDED BY 19.2m cases = .011 MULTIPLY BY 100 = 1.1 as a percentage. Those numbers seem pretty much in line with what we have. Again if my manipulation of these numbers is wrong, I am more than willing to listen and acknowledge. OK, I get it, You think the situation in India and Brazil is great and you wish the US had that. I guess I disagree.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 17:36:38 GMT -5
Brazil--- 401,186 Covid deaths DIVIDED BY 212,559,417 total population = .002 MULTIPLY BY 100 ( ) = .20 as a percentage (Please someone double check my math) India---- This was the best that I found when I googled number of Covid deaths in India 200,000 deaths DIVIDED BY 19.2m cases = .011 MULTIPLY BY 100 = 1.1 as a percentage. Those numbers seem pretty much in line with what we have. Again if my manipulation of these numbers is wrong, I am more than willing to listen and acknowledge. OK, I get it, You think the situation in India and Brazil is great and you wish the US had that. I guess I disagree. Nope you don't get it, I never said the situation in Brazil or India is great. I am saying that their numbers mirror the US numbers. But I do appreciate your tone changing from condescending to passive aggressive. What would be great is if we could change the tone from negative to merely sharing ideas based on our differing backgrounds and focuses. Or better yet, get back to talking about volleyball. How about it?
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Post by isaacspaceman on May 1, 2021 18:24:47 GMT -5
OK, I get it, You think the situation in India and Brazil is great and you wish the US had that. I guess I disagree. Nope you don't get it, I never said the situation in Brazil or India is great. I am saying that their numbers mirror the US numbers. But I do appreciate your tone changing from condescending to passive aggressive. What would be great is if we could change the tone from negative to merely sharing ideas based on our differing backgrounds and focuses. Or better yet, get back to talking about volleyball. How about it? Look, I only chimed in because you asked what would have happened if instead of taking precautions against the pandemic we just tried to live life as normally as possible. I wanted to point out that that approach has been tried and leads to nightmarish scenarios and hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. For the record, I am opposed to nightmarish scenarios and hundreds of thousands of needless deaths, no matter how many spectators we could have at volleyball tournaments if we accepted them.
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Post by dodger on May 1, 2021 19:30:11 GMT -5
OK, I get it, You think the situation in India and Brazil is great and you wish the US had that. I guess I disagree. Nope you don't get it, I never said the situation in Brazil or India is great. I am saying that their numbers mirror the US numbers. But I do appreciate your tone changing from condescending to passive aggressive. What would be great is if we could change the tone from negative to merely sharing ideas based on our differing backgrounds and focuses. Or better yet, get back to talking about volleyball. How about it? You imply that losing 1.8 % of a population is not a big deal for you: that my healthy friends who died, its a cruel world suck it up, that the mom’s grandma’s and grandpa’s that lay drowning in there own fluids are just the collateral damage! That the nurses and doctors manning the hospitals daily deal with the avoidable deaths of so many that many describe it worse than a war zone in the hospital! Why couldn’t we have been better; make america great: thats an excellent idea: we should have been great at this: maybe led the world; instead some asian country’s show how its done to keep numbers low: while the arrogance of people like you and your percentage rhetoric does nothing to help lead only help ditract from the goal: you know if you were in a team you wouldn’t be a great team olayer thats for sure: you would be the one claiming you should get more playing time because your .0001% better than susy! Well we will/are unfortunately leading: but in the wrong direction! Take your passive aggressive rhetoric and claim of “its an academic discussion” and go away! While those of is with hearts who want to live better and be responsible to our fellow citizens go on caring while you go on being you ! I am happy you are not my volleyball dad: i have seen many of you : but truly you represent the worst of them! Truly not the best of them! 🙏🏻✌🏾
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 20:17:56 GMT -5
Nope you don't get it, I never said the situation in Brazil or India is great. I am saying that their numbers mirror the US numbers. But I do appreciate your tone changing from condescending to passive aggressive. What would be great is if we could change the tone from negative to merely sharing ideas based on our differing backgrounds and focuses. Or better yet, get back to talking about volleyball. How about it? Look, I only chimed in because you asked what would have happened if instead of taking precautions against the pandemic we just tried to live life as normally as possible. I wanted to point out that that approach has been tried and leads to nightmarish scenarios and hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. For the record, I am opposed to nightmarish scenarios and hundreds of thousands of needless deaths, no matter how many spectators we could have at volleyball tournaments if we accepted them. Well thanks for chiming in. Your POV has been duly noted. For the record... this is what I said... What if, stay with me on this, what if had decided to have lived our lives as normal(ish) as possible, keeping in mind the certain part of the population who truly needed to be protected? Maybe we wouldn't have folded businesses, or have a large amount of people unemployed, or kids falling behind in school, or worse than that see the number of teen suicides go up? You never acknowledged (and still haven't) all the tragedies that have occurred BECAUSE OF the stringent steps taken by some States that have not led those States to fare any better than States with looser guidelines. The numbers have been relatively the same. The thought was States like Florida and Texas were going to have bodies lined in the streets (Hasn't happened so far and I hope it doesn't happen). So I guess my final question to you is... should we have strict Covid guidelines and have 1.8% die or have looser guidelines and have 1.8% die? I apologize for this next potshot but... maybe we should ask the current New York Governor about needless deaths in his State and how they occurred by his actions.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 1, 2021 20:36:57 GMT -5
Nope you don't get it, I never said the situation in Brazil or India is great. I am saying that their numbers mirror the US numbers. But I do appreciate your tone changing from condescending to passive aggressive. What would be great is if we could change the tone from negative to merely sharing ideas based on our differing backgrounds and focuses. Or better yet, get back to talking about volleyball. How about it? You imply that losing 1.8 % of a population is not a big deal for you: that my healthy friends who died, its a cruel world suck it up, that the mom’s grandma’s and grandpa’s that lay drowning in there own fluids are just the collateral damage! That the nurses and doctors manning the hospitals daily deal with the avoidable deaths of so many that many describe it worse than a war zone in the hospital! Why couldn’t we have been better; make america great: thats an excellent idea: we should have been great at this: maybe led the world; instead some asian country’s show how its done to keep numbers low: while the arrogance of people like you and your percentage rhetoric does nothing to help lead only help ditract from the goal: you know if you were in a team you wouldn’t be a great team olayer thats for sure: you would be the one claiming you should get more playing time because your .0001% better than susy! Well we will/are unfortunately leading: but in the wrong direction! Take your passive aggressive rhetoric and claim of “its an academic discussion” and go away! While those of is with hearts who want to live better and be responsible to our fellow citizens go on caring while you go on being you ! I am happy you are not my volleyball dad: i have seen many of you : but truly you represent the worst of them! Truly not the best of them! 🙏🏻✌🏾 Okay a lot to try and unpack here. First of all, at least where the US is concerned it's not 1.8% of the TOTAL population, it's 1.8% of those who have contracted Covid. This is a MUCH smaller percentage of the US pop. Next... I am truly sorry if anything I've posted has come off as arrogant to you. That is never my intent. I'm not trying to be the smartest person in the room, I'm presenting how I feel and believe WHILE using government supplied stats to show where I'm coming from. Also... if you have lost loved ones to Covid (or anything else) that is truly sad. For us as a country and as a world, to lose people is always tragic and regrettable. I don't think I'm being passive aggressive but I could 100% wrong about that too. Maybe you're bothered by my dispassionate tone. There are a lot of raw feelings surrounding this and I'm trying not to just rant in an emotional way as I don't think that furthers the discourse. Lastly you try and paint me with the brush of being irresponsible but ignored (or haven't read) where I said I do wear a mask and have had the vaccine(s). I know other Qualifiers have survived quite fine allowing BOTH parents (and sometimes other spectators to watch) and there was no calamity as a result. Sorry ,also, that you would not want me as a volleyball parent, I'd be quite fine with you as my volleyball kid... as long as your passing was at least a 2.5 and you didn't constantly get tooled off the block. That last part was a joke.
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Post by clob on May 1, 2021 20:40:17 GMT -5
Umm, can this thread be moved to that "other" forum?
I feel like it has nothing to do with Colorado Crossroads and I would relish the chance to rebut this dude's asinine arguments.
Thanks.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 2, 2021 0:08:13 GMT -5
Umm, can this thread be moved to that "other" forum? I feel like it has nothing to do with Colorado Crossroads and I would relish the chance to rebut this dude's asinine arguments. Thanks. This thread doesn't have to be moved, you could message me privately. This whole thing started because of a complaint the Crossroads was limiting spectator access because of Denver's Covid precautions/ restrictions. I would hate to see this thread moved, especially since most of the conversation has been extremely civil.
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Post by rockymountainhigh on May 2, 2021 8:42:38 GMT -5
I did not start this thread complaining about limited spectators (and coaches BTW). I started this because Crossroads included two asinine rules not related to COVID or fire marshal restrictions purely designed to prevent parents from filming their teams and forcing users to use the Crossroads web stream at $50 each. If no one else thinks this is greedy, just let the thread die and start a new thread about COVID rules and death rates please.
I do think the two coach rule is stupid. Many teams have had to leave a coach behind that has been with the team all year. Adding 160 more coaches to the population should not be a deterrent to healthy practices. Further, coaches can't stay in the gym to watch other teams from their club. But everyone is welcome to hang out in the lobby? I guess the lobby has an anti-COVID bubble around it.
Had we known the "rules" before the deadline to withdraw, we absolutely would have canceled.
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 2, 2021 8:49:19 GMT -5
I did not start this thread complaining about limited spectators (and coaches BTW). I started this because Crossroads included two asinine rules not related to COVID or fire marshal restrictions purely designed to prevent parents from filming their teams and forcing users to use the Crossroads web stream at $50 each. If no one else thinks this is greedy, just let the thread die and start a new thread about COVID rules and death rates please. I do think the two coach rule is stupid. Many teams have had to leave a coach behind that has been with the team all year. Adding 160 more coaches to the population should not be a deterrent to healthy practices. Further, coaches can't stay in the gym to watch other teams from their club. But everyone is welcome to hang out in the lobby? I guess the lobby has an anti-COVID bubble around it. Had we known the "rules" before the deadline to withdraw, we absolutely would have canceled. Thank you for the clarification and the reboot... I am pretty sure that if our parents had known the rules, we would have asked the club to find a different Qualifier if possible. Coaches should also be allowed to stay in the gym from the standpoint of being able scout opponents of future matches.
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Post by sevb on May 2, 2021 9:23:03 GMT -5
I did not start this thread complaining about limited spectators (and coaches BTW). I started this because Crossroads included two asinine rules not related to COVID or fire marshal restrictions purely designed to prevent parents from filming their teams and forcing users to use the Crossroads web stream at $50 each. If no one else thinks this is greedy, just let the thread die and start a new thread about COVID rules and death rates please. I do think the two coach rule is stupid. Many teams have had to leave a coach behind that has been with the team all year. Adding 160 more coaches to the population should not be a deterrent to healthy practices. Further, coaches can't stay in the gym to watch other teams from their club. But everyone is welcome to hang out in the lobby? I guess the lobby has an anti-COVID bubble around it. Had we known the "rules" before the deadline to withdraw, we absolutely would have canceled. Don’t move your own goal posts... The op was about a limit on spectators and no tripods/standing... At no point did you say the event banned recording. They just told you you couldn’t use a tripod. And if all 15 parents from both teams didn’t feel the need to ALL record them it likely wouldn’t be an issue... I mean... you can share the recordings and everything... it’s pretty easy these days... and you never presented an argument against the fire Marshall... so let me go farther. Most facilities (fire Marshall) require a minimum distance from walls. Most places that distance is 10’... an actual 10’ not the attack line 10’... this isn’t universal... but it’s an easy place to start. They also require a minimum distance between courts... some facilities (fire Marshall) ask that this be from the tile and others from the chairs. Let’s assume in this case that it’s tile to tile... and that it’s also 10’. Now you put chairs on the courts and that 10’ becomes 8’... now you take a handful of tripods and place those behind the chairs and that 8’ becomes 4’-6’ of trip free floor space. NOW take a warm body and stand them next to their tripod... and your 4’-6’ of clear space for ingress and egress has disappeared. This allows ZERO room for the rest of the bodies in the CC to move around. Note that in this model I didn’t allow for any “off teams” to be at the playing area... those bodies (typically camped out slap in the middle of the walk way) in addition to those actually spectating allow for minimal social distancing in the areas designated by the facility (fire Marshall) as space for ingress and egress. This in a "normal" - "pre-covid" world is taken with a grain of salt and just parked for the course. COVID has put extra burdens on everyone involved... And I STILL can't comprehend how limiting the number of spectators (less money) and asking those there to find another means of recording (monopods-or Lord forbid hold the device in your hands) makes a tournament staff “greedy”... they’re still barely breaking even this yr...
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