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Post by sonofdogman on Jun 7, 2021 16:33:29 GMT -5
Technically, if everything stated on here about the Sara/Kelly partnership was true, it sounds like Sara was justified in pulling the plug. But the thing is, even immediately after that breakup (i.e., before history repeated itself with Summer apparently), Sara seems to be the one who fell out of favor among fans, myself included, whereas you would think it would be the apparently slacking Kelly who fell out of favor. Maybe Kelly actually started missing practice AS A RESPONSE TO feeling not supported in some way by Sara...maybe even on an unconscious level, like you forget to change a filter in your car and then have car trouble and can't make practice, and you think it was just absent mindedness but it might be your unconscious causing this forgetfulness to happen as "revenge" for being treated poorly in some way by Sara. Maybe if they, or more typically an outsider had spurred a discussion of, okay, how do each of you feel about the partnership, what are things you like, what would you like to see change...Maybe things could have been different if Kelly in fact had grievances that instead went undiscussed. can someone remind me what went down between her and the AVP? In addition to what tamz posted above, she also had a financial dispute with the tour operators. The parties agreed to an appearance fee for every event she participated in, above any prize money earned due to her finish. I believe it was $75,000 per event. The AVP was delinquent in paying those fees and Kerri filed suit against them to recover the money. That info becoming public also generated additional hard feelings between Kerri and other players. Kerri chose to boycott and could afford to do so, while everyone else was just hoping to make ends meet.
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Post by david38 on Jun 7, 2021 16:41:44 GMT -5
Interesting, I hadn't heard that. In a way, I'm glad it happened. Well I am and I'm not. Never particularly enjoyed watching Kerri and April, there was something missing, some kind of intangible. Of course, you want Kerri in the AVP though.
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Post by ajm on Jun 7, 2021 16:47:26 GMT -5
can someone remind me what went down between her and the AVP? In addition to what tamz posted above, she also had a financial dispute with the tour operators. The parties agreed to an appearance fee for every event she participated in, above any prize money earned due to her finish. I believe it was $75,000 per event. The AVP was delinquent in paying those fees and Kerri filed suit against them to recover the money. That info becoming public also generated additional hard feelings between Kerri and other players. Kerri chose to boycott and could afford to do so, while everyone else was just hoping to make ends meet. There were two missed payments of $75,000 in 2016. volleyballmag.com/walsh-jennings_lawsuit/The boycott was at the Chicago event in September 2016, which Kerri insisted was not related to the lawsuit.
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Post by graham on Jun 7, 2021 17:14:21 GMT -5
While the courts ruled the AVP was at fault and should have paid the appearance fees, here's my take on the whole thing (which permanently changed how I view one of the best players of all time):
Both sides essentially held the same position of "I (we) want to make money from volleyball, therefore growing the game is advantageous." - Which is fine for both a pro tour and pro player.
However, when the truth came out (i.e. appearance fees far in excess of what other players could make in an entire season), well... one side turned out to be transparent with their intentions. The other side turned out to be "6 Feet of B.S."
One side prefaced their "grow the game" position with "We're a business and at the end of the day will act accordingly to protect our interests." The other side apparently prefaced that position with "Everyone should incur risks and make sacrifices, except for me. And I don't care if you own the tour, run everything by me first, because I'm bigger than the game."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AVP did have some type of informal players board or council to review rule changes for the Freeze, Kerri just wasn't part of that group.
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Post by barnacle on Jun 7, 2021 17:21:32 GMT -5
If kerri continues (not necessarily another olympic cycle) she would really need a bigger defender that can side out extremely well. Although a lot of people on these threads have some KWJ stan goggles on and claim she's still a top big in the world, dominant blocker, etc. that's really just not the case. Her hitting percentage has been low, serve receive very poor, and makes a lot of errors now especially with her option 2 balls and trick shots. Realistically cmon, even with an injured partner (who frankly was still playing decent defense and setting well), if she was a top big she should've been able to at least carry them out of the qualifiers.
I don't think she should retire though and would still have success. Unfortunately, I think now April would be a perfect partner with her offensive dominance, option ball, and she could carry Kerri more b/c it's clear for future success Kerri would need a partnership where she'd be the weaker player.
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Post by beavis on Jun 8, 2021 2:11:00 GMT -5
While the courts ruled the AVP was at fault and should have paid the appearance fees, here's my take on the whole thing (which permanently changed how I view one of the best players of all time): Both sides essentially held the same position of "I (we) want to make money from volleyball, therefore growing the game is advantageous." - Which is fine for both a pro tour and pro player. However, when the truth came out (i.e. appearance fees far in excess of what other players could make in an entire season), well... one side turned out to be transparent with their intentions. The other side turned out to be "6 Feet of B.S." One side prefaced their "grow the game" position with "We're a business and at the end of the day will act accordingly to protect our interests." The other side apparently prefaced that position with "Everyone should incur risks and make sacrifices, except for me. And I don't care if you own the tour, run everything by me first, because I'm bigger than the game." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AVP did have some type of informal players board or council to review rule changes for the Freeze, Kerri just wasn't part of that group. Well said, Graham! You have explained why we all would be incredibly surprised if Donald ever lets her play AVP again (at least, as long as he owns it).
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Post by david38 on Jun 8, 2021 5:45:48 GMT -5
That could be, but then in a way wouldn't he basically be doing what it looks like Kerri did - put themselves above the good of the game. If Kerri continues to play and holds up physically, and remains one of the top few U.S. bigs, then the best thing for USA volleyball is that she play in the AVP, which would make her more attractive to potential U.S. partners. By preventing that, Donald would be putting his professional grievance/pride over the good of the U.S. game. Not saying he doesn't have a good case to keep her out or that he would be "wrong" to keep her out, just saying.
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Post by goldengirlsx3 on Jun 8, 2021 6:23:01 GMT -5
Maybe Kerri will just decide to be a Mom & do other things outside Volleyball. She is pretty much the best ever in her sport or at least tied for that honor. Not making the Olympics hasn’t diminished that stat. She’s really earned the right to just sit back & chill.
As a Kerri fan, I would just rather her not play AVP. Too many hard feelings between her & Sun and no one should want to relive the past.
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Post by specter54 on Jun 8, 2021 7:16:10 GMT -5
While the courts ruled the AVP was at fault and should have paid the appearance fees, here's my take on the whole thing (which permanently changed how I view one of the best players of all time): Both sides essentially held the same position of "I (we) want to make money from volleyball, therefore growing the game is advantageous." - Which is fine for both a pro tour and pro player. However, when the truth came out (i.e. appearance fees far in excess of what other players could make in an entire season), well... one side turned out to be transparent with their intentions. The other side turned out to be "6 Feet of B.S." One side prefaced their "grow the game" position with "We're a business and at the end of the day will act accordingly to protect our interests." The other side apparently prefaced that position with "Everyone should incur risks and make sacrifices, except for me. And I don't care if you own the tour, run everything by me first, because I'm bigger than the game." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the AVP did have some type of informal players board or council to review rule changes for the Freeze, Kerri just wasn't part of that group. Regardless of the who it is, if a player has a contract with an organization that organization has a legal obligation to fulfill their end of the contract. Kerri had a 5 year contract with the AVP she signed in 2013 for use of her likeness and agreement for certain promotions. Sure other sports organizations will try to negotiate more favorable agreements with players, but can you imagine an NBA team just straight up deciding not to pay a player? It would end up the same result - court finding in favor to the player and organization would be responsible for the player's legal fees (like the AVP was). To me this was such a black and white legal issue, it was so stupid for the AVP to try to not honor the contract. And holy crap the mental gymnastics it takes to turn the AVP not honoring a player's contract into some how that player thinking, "I don't care if you own the tour, run everything by me first, because I'm bigger than the game." Just wow, and this is coming from someone rooting for Sponcil and Claes to earn the Olympic spot.
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Post by sonofdogman on Jun 8, 2021 8:32:50 GMT -5
They say there are two sides to every story. But on volleytalk, it's at least three.
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Post by graham on Jun 8, 2021 11:43:21 GMT -5
After re-reading, maybe I didn't clarify my stance.
Kerri was owed the money by the AVP, period.
My opinion of her was shaped by her reaction to the AVP implementing the Freeze rule. If you don't like it don't play. But don't complain about, accuse the AVP of "hurting the game and not growing the game", and then try to lead a player boycott because you weren't consulted. Especially when the other players and the pro tour itself are struggling to make money while you collect huge appearance fees regardless of your finish or the tour's ability to make a profit. She constantly hid behind the "grow the game" B.S.
She did the same thing to the city of Manhattan Beach after the AVP folded (and before Donald bought it). The city somehow put together a tournament with sponsors and prize money, streamed it live (albeit on a now forgotten platform or sports network). The city decided to use old school rules, I think it was the 50th anniversary or something, and they wanted to have a one-off nostalgic event to recognize the history and tradition of the tournament. Again, Kerri accused the city of not growing the game and said it would hurt the players because the FIVB and Olympics use different rules. Granted several other pros boycotted too, but none of them were the face of the game at the time. Again, if you don't like just don't play. But don't try to tear down what others are building just because you don't like it.
I don't recall Kerri speaking out or boycotting when the FIVB ran test events changing the rules, i.e. the block didn't count as a team contact or events where the net rule was changed (you could contact any part of the net except the top tape).
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Post by ajm on Jun 8, 2021 12:07:37 GMT -5
I think the jury is still out on the freeze rule. It’s been five years now. Has any other tour or series adopted it? Even AVP qualifiers don’t use it. In general I like the idea, but it hasn’t been universally well received. There have also been some tweaks suggested that could improve it.
It was strange that the AVP used the event billed as the tour Championships to experiment with the new rule. When the FIVB tried out a new block touch rule, it did so at The Hague, an indoor event during the off-season.
I have no idea if the freeze rule is still a major source of conflict between Kerri and Donald. I do think both would benefit from resolving their differences.
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Post by barnacle on Jun 8, 2021 14:44:20 GMT -5
From everything I've read, the rule change was not the reason for the organizing the boycott, maybe a minor addition. I believe it was more about the player contract with the AVP. The players were in negotiation and Kerri (claims this was her reasoning) thought that it was detrimental to the players who needed to be able to make a living without winning every tournament. IIRC the AVP wanted the players' exclusivity and didn't want to allow them to play in other tournaments/leagues (like the NVL) even on weekends when there weren't AVP tournaments. For those reasons (if accurate) I definitely agree the AVP was wack for that, extremely classist to the players, and detrimental to growing the game.
I am not a big fan of Kerri anymore. Especially after seeing a lot of damaging misinformation she shares on social media regarding politics and public health. However, I do think that was a good stance to take, maybe it was rooted in her wanted more money too or maybe not, as the less elite players have no pull or influence to negotiate so I do respect her leading that charge.
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Post by ajm on Jun 8, 2021 15:33:05 GMT -5
From everything I've read, the rule change was not the reason for the organizing the boycott, maybe a minor addition. I believe it was more about the player contract with the AVP. The players were in negotiation and Kerri (claims this was her reasoning) thought that it was detrimental to the players who needed to be able to make a living without winning every tournament. IIRC the AVP wanted the players' exclusivity and didn't want to allow them to play in other tournaments/leagues (like the NVL) even on weekends when there weren't AVP tournaments. For those reasons (if accurate) I definitely agree the AVP was wack for that, extremely classist to the players, and detrimental to growing the game. I am not a big fan of Kerri anymore. Especially after seeing a lot of damaging misinformation she shares on social media regarding politics and public health. However, I do think that was a good stance to take, maybe it was rooted in her wanted more money too or maybe not, as the less elite players have no pull or influence to negotiate so I do respect her leading that charge. You are confusing two different boycotts. Kerri boycotted the September 2016 Chicago event over the rule change. There was a planned boycott of the May 2017 Huntington Beach event that was averted at the last minute after most of the players signed the player contract that included an exclusivity clause. volleyballmag.com/avp-contract-042917/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2021 15:41:26 GMT -5
I think it would be great for her to go back out there and play the AVP tournaments. Although she has already earned her reputation as one of the best players in the history of beach volleyball, it is sometimes good to go back to the roots & that could be the AVP tournaments.
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