|
Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 17, 2021 9:35:47 GMT -5
I don't remember the scriptures portraying Yeshua as hateful but I may have missed that one. Regardless THAT'S a discussion for a different thread. Beautiful painting but that doesn't mean He was motivated by hate. Anger 100% but not necessarily hate. IMO Different thread different time perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by joetrinsey on Jun 17, 2021 9:37:07 GMT -5
Free markets are not the solution and never have been. Free markets have always been the tool used by property owners to acquire more property and protect the property they already own. Systemic racism, in short.
I think this is a statement that can really only be made in an extremely privileged, American-centric context. Which is fine, because you're largely talking about American politics here, but take the approximately 5000 year-old history of state-organized civilization... free markets represent a pretty small chunk of that.
There's been horrible abuses of labor by employees through history. But, compare like to like. Walmart doesn't seem to be a great employer, but it's probably better than the company towns of the early industrial age, which were probably better than the fiefdoms of feudal Europe, which were probably better than being on the work crew that built the Great Pyramids.
Redlining was a horrible injustice and there's good arguments for government reparations to correct that. But redlining only becomes an issue of injustice because we live in a context where we do have property rites. 400 years ago, you wouldn't have given redlining a second thought because the idea that any citizen should have the right to purchase property wherever they want would have been unheard of. For the majority of human civilization, most of the populace was excluded from ever owning property in any location. I live in Pennsylvania, which is named so because the land was chartered to William Penn. That's not anything resembling a free market. The Algonquians sure would have liked to protect the property they already owned! (Not that they would have seen it that way, I but I think you know what I mean.)
I'm not arguing for anarcho-capitalism here, but if you look at the worst tragedies in human history, they are almost always state-sponsored. It's easy to mock libertarians, but the Holodomor isn't going to be committed by free market advocates. Ron Paul isn't out there advocating for the next Armenian Genocide. The drug war wasn't a defense of individual property rights, but a violation of them. Again, Gary Johnson is fun to mock, but how many young Black men are going to prison for selling a few joints under his criminal justice platform?
Just something to keep in mind...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 11:00:04 GMT -5
The protection of property seems to always be the key, no matter how that property was obtained. And protecting property includes wealth.
Which is great, for the wealthy.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 11:01:11 GMT -5
Ever read The Metaphysical Club, Joe? Just curious.
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 11:12:33 GMT -5
You're really bending over backwards to try and make this point, aren't you? Like, holy f*ck, this is bad logic.
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 11:20:02 GMT -5
I agree, we should use government power to reverse former government wrongs. Make atonement. Promoting a society that tries to define people by race is a very poor solution. *~white privilege*~
|
|
|
Post by joetrinsey on Jun 17, 2021 12:28:15 GMT -5
Ever read The Metaphysical Club, Joe? Just curious. Free on Kindle Unlimited; I’ll check it out. Looks interesting.
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,398
|
Post by bluepenquin on Jun 17, 2021 13:45:06 GMT -5
Promoting a society that tries to define people by race is a very poor solution. *~white privilege*~ I find the phrase 'white privilege' to be odd. Seems like privilege is defined as people that are treated like they are supposed to be treated, whether they are actually treated like they are supposed to or not. Why not emphasize (and fix) those who are not being treated correctly?
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 13:47:14 GMT -5
I find the phrase 'white privilege' to be odd. Seems like privilege is defined as people that are treated like they are supposed to be treated, whether they are actually treated like they are supposed to or not. Why not emphasize (and fix) those who are not being treated correctly? I don't understand this sentence at all.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 13:50:32 GMT -5
Ever read The Metaphysical Club, Joe? Just curious. Free on Kindle Unlimited; I’ll check it out. Looks interesting. Pretty old and he has newer stuff. Just curious. Louis Menand is well-respected, I think. The book has a lot of relevance today, imo. Focus is Civil War and late 1800s.
|
|
trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,114
|
Post by trojansc on Jun 17, 2021 13:51:24 GMT -5
Yeah there definitely weren't any racist business owners during Jim Crow or segregation no sir! Every swimming pool and lunch counter in Alabama was secretly run by government plants. 1) Does this go on today? This hasn't happened for decades - 40-50+ years ago. Yet, speaking of swimming pools, people still harass and call the police disproportionately on Black people for using their own swimming pools as if they don't have a right to be there. Why is that? We know, not ALL white people (like me!), and NOT you, certainly, but you don't need to do gymnastics this time to deny some part of guilt or participation in this system. It's again, a problem within society, it's NOT on the police to stop this from happening. People still are symbolizing racist behaviors that attempt to restrict Black freedom. What you don't seem to understand or acknowledge is that many of this racist behaviors and practices have still passed down on to the next generation and get perpetuated. You can't have signs that say No Blacks, but you can certainly create dress codes that disproportionately affect them and allow you to legally discriminate against them. You can't explicitly say that you won't hire black people or minorities (though I've heard this from people I've actually worked for) but it will still happen. By your assimilation comments, do you think Black people should quit giving their children certain names and opt for names like John, Karen, and Shannon so that they have a better chance of getting hired? That sounds like a poor solution to me rather than acknowledging and respecting cultural differences... And hell, even when dress codes aren't discriminatory, they still can be applied so. White and Black kid dressed pretty much identically at a Baltimore restaurant, but only one of them was kicked out. On video. Manager was reprimanded. These things. happen. EVERY. day. They are not just within the police. These are not small isolated incidents.
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,398
|
Post by bluepenquin on Jun 17, 2021 13:53:39 GMT -5
I find the phrase 'white privilege' to be odd. Seems like privilege is defined as people that are treated like they are supposed to be treated, whether they are actually treated like they are supposed to or not. Why not emphasize (and fix) those who are not being treated correctly? I don't understand this sentence at all. Sounds like some have defined that all white people are privileged because they didn't face the same discrimination as other races. a) all people face discrimination of one form or another, so this becomes a gross generalization that probably doesn't apply to most white people. b) seems like we should be focusing on where unjust discrimination occurs and fixing this. To imply that (all) white people are the source of this is just stupid. So I get back to - how is it determined to be a privilege to be treated correctly/fairly? This should be the goal for everyone.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 13:54:37 GMT -5
Just as long as pants at the knees is still a crime.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 13:58:25 GMT -5
I don't understand this sentence at all. Sounds like some have defined that all white people are privileged because they didn't face the same discrimination as other races. a) all people face discrimination of one form or another, so this becomes a gross generalization that probably doesn't apply to most white people. Do "whites" *as a group* face discrimination? News to me if we do. Agree on the first part. Second part is a strawman. "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group."
|
|
|
Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 13:59:33 GMT -5
I don't understand this sentence at all. Sounds like some have defined that all white people are privileged because they didn't face the same discrimination as other races. a) all people face discrimination of one form or another, so this becomes a gross generalization that probably doesn't apply to most white people. b) seems like we should be focusing on where unjust discrimination occurs and fixing this. To imply that (all) white people are the source of this is just stupid. So I get back to - how is it determined to be a privilege to be treated correctly/fairly? This should be the goal for everyone. *sings True Colors* Let's start here: what discrimination have you faced?
|
|