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Post by tamz on Sept 16, 2021 10:06:37 GMT -5
Agreed with both of you. Zero chance Kelly dumps Sarah because who would be an upgrade from Sarah for Kelly outside of April? I don't think Kelly/April games/personalities match well either. Only reason Sarah would/should leave is if Alix comes calling and I don't see that coming either. Also not sure how well their games match up that well. Alix not hand setting would put a lot of pressure on Sarah siding out which is her biggest weakness. I personally think the best match up would be Sarah/Kloth as I think Sarah is better then Nuss and Kloth is better (maybe now) long term for Paris Olympics. I think Sarah does everything Nuss can do but is slightly better. Kloth to me has the on 2 game potential that Kelly does and is much bigger blocker and better server. I don't think Kloth/Nuss will break up before Paris but that would be my dream team. Kloth/Nuss won’t be able to get to Paris if qualification process is similar to Tokyo and if FIVB is still going by the stars system and the points. They have 0 international points to enter events. |
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Post by wisco on Sept 16, 2021 10:13:38 GMT -5
Agreed with both of you. Zero chance Kelly dumps Sarah because who would be an upgrade from Sarah for Kelly outside of April? I don't think Kelly/April games/personalities match well either. Only reason Sarah would/should leave is if Alix comes calling and I don't see that coming either. Also not sure how well their games match up that well. Alix not hand setting would put a lot of pressure on Sarah siding out which is her biggest weakness. I personally think the best match up would be Sarah/Kloth as I think Sarah is better then Nuss and Kloth is better (maybe now) long term for Paris Olympics. I think Sarah does everything Nuss can do but is slightly better. Kloth to me has the on 2 game potential that Kelly does and is much bigger blocker and better server. I don't think Kloth/Nuss will break up before Paris but that would be my dream team. Kloth/Nuss won’t be able to get to Paris if qualification process is similar to Tokyo and if FIVB is still going by the stars system and the points. They have 0 international points to enter events. I agree which is why I think if Sarah is thinking how do I win gold medal at Olympics now is the time to at least reach out to Kloth. I believe Kloth has a higher ceiling in my opinion then Claes. If Kloth wants to play the next Olympics her best shot is Sarah and her points. However based on how close those two are I don't see them breaking up. I think Kloth/Nuss rightfully want to bet on themselves to prove everyone wrong. Both are really fun teams and I hope they are battling it out for Olympics for years to come. I just personally want to see Sponcil/Kloth like I wanted to see Crabb/Phil. Want to see what I think is the US best possible combination of players. |
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Post by dunninla3 on Sept 20, 2021 11:58:56 GMT -5
Kloth/Nuss won’t be able to get to Paris if qualification process is similar to Tokyo and if FIVB is still going by the stars system and the points. They have 0 international points to enter events. I just personally want to see Sponcil/Kloth like I wanted to see Crabb/Phil. Me too. Kloth is already the equal of Claes, if not already ahead, and that is after only three AVPs. By next year Kloth will be ahead by a good margin. In two years there won't even be any rational discussion on the matter. Our two best Paris bigs *would* be Alix and Kloth, with nobody else really within striking distance. Does USAV care? I'm sure they do, but wondering whether they have any interest in trying to figure out how to get TKN into FIVB events to even have the chance of qualifying via FIVB world tour points. |
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Post by tamz on Sept 20, 2021 12:46:23 GMT -5
I just personally want to see Sponcil/Kloth like I wanted to see Crabb/Phil. Me too. Kloth is already the equal of Claes, if not already ahead, and that is after only three AVPs. By next year Kloth will be ahead by a good margin. In two years there won't even be any rational discussion on the matter. Our two best Paris bigs *would* be Alix and Kloth, with nobody else really within striking distance. Does USAV care? I'm sure they do, but wondering whether they have any interest in trying to figure out how to get TKN into FIVB events to even have the chance of qualifying via FIVB world tour points. They would need a wildcard and a magical run like what the ATeam did in The Hague in like a 4* event to have any chance. |
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Post by ajm on Sept 20, 2021 12:54:06 GMT -5
I just personally want to see Sponcil/Kloth like I wanted to see Crabb/Phil. Me too. Kloth is already the equal of Claes, if not already ahead, and that is after only three AVPs. By next year Kloth will be ahead by a good margin. In two years there won't even be any rational discussion on the matter. Our two best Paris bigs *would* be Alix and Kloth, with nobody else really within striking distance. Does USAV care? I'm sure they do, but wondering whether they have any interest in trying to figure out how to get TKN into FIVB events to even have the chance of qualifying via FIVB world tour points. I wonder if Sponcil has enough points by herself to get into Itapema with Kloth. That’s what USAV should be pushing for regardless of what happens long term with Slaes. Entry deadline is in three weeks. Assuming April and Alix and Kerri will all sit this one out, I’m hoping to see some new teams signed up for this. |
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Post by larabeach on Sept 20, 2021 17:59:40 GMT -5
Me too. Kloth is already the equal of Claes, if not already ahead, and that is after only three AVPs. By next year Kloth will be ahead by a good margin. In two years there won't even be any rational discussion on the matter. Our two best Paris bigs *would* be Alix and Kloth, with nobody else really within striking distance. Does USAV care? I'm sure they do, but wondering whether they have any interest in trying to figure out how to get TKN into FIVB events to even have the chance of qualifying via FIVB world tour points. I wonder if Sponcil has enough points by herself to get into Itapema with Kloth. That’s what USAV should be pushing for regardless of what happens long term with Slaes. Entry deadline is in three weeks. Assuming April and Alix and Kerri will all sit this one out, I’m hoping to see some new teams signed up for this. Sponcil has currently 1280 entry ponits as an individual player, that's 3rd in the world tied with Claes (obviously) and both members of the ATeam, only behind Agatha and Duda. I think it would have been enough to enter Gstaad MD, barely. But not enough to enter the MD in Sochi or Katar. It would be enough to enter any 4* qualifier for sure. I don't think they could be blocked out of the coutry quota, but in any case I'd say that's highly unlikely if possible at all. So for Itapema, it greatly depends on who signs up. I'd bet many teams are going to sit this one out, so entry should be relatively easy.
What I fail to see is why would Sponcil agree to this if Slaes is not splitting. It's all disadvantages for her. Now, if she is pairing with Kloth that's another story.
If TKN is set to continue together as it seems, they could still split just for one or two events. It's no drama, i'd say it's even good for their development as professional players, and someday they are gonna need to do it anyway if injuries hit. Itapema seems ideal for that. But wouldn't players that have not so clear partners more willing to take part in this? Players such as Hughes, Stockman, or Kolinske, could also be an option, even if a riskier one.
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Post by ajm on Sept 21, 2021 0:02:12 GMT -5
I wonder if Sponcil has enough points by herself to get into Itapema with Kloth. That’s what USAV should be pushing for regardless of what happens long term with Slaes. Entry deadline is in three weeks. Assuming April and Alix and Kerri will all sit this one out, I’m hoping to see some new teams signed up for this. Sponcil has currently 1280 entry ponits as an individual player, that's 3rd in the world tied with Claes (obviously) and both members of the ATeam, only behind Agatha and Duda. I think it would have been enough to enter Gstaad MD, barely. But not enough to enter the MD in Sochi or Katar. It would be enough to enter any 4* qualifier for sure. I don't think they could be blocked out of the coutry quota, but in any case I'd say that's highly unlikely if possible at all. So for Itapema, it greatly depends on who signs up. I'd bet many teams are going to sit this one out, so entry should be relatively easy.
What I fail to see is why would Sponcil agree to this if Slaes is not splitting. It's all disadvantages for her. Now, if she is pairing with Kloth that's another story.
If TKN is set to continue together as it seems, they could still split just for one or two events. It's no drama, i'd say it's even good for their development as professional players, and someday they are gonna need to do it anyway if injuries hit. Itapema seems ideal for that. But wouldn't players that have not so clear partners more willing to take part in this? Players such as Hughes, Stockman, or Kolinske, could also be an option, even if a riskier one.
I would say playing one tournament that isn’t even part of the Olympic qualification process with a different partner should not be considered a permanent split. Just see how the chemistry is. Still plenty of time to go back to your regular partner if that’s what you decide. We’re seeing this a lot with the German and Dutch federations now. Pairing top veterans with younger players in one-off partnerships to get them earning FIVB points. Wish USAV would encourage the same. |
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Post by guest2 on Sept 21, 2021 0:21:04 GMT -5
I just personally want to see Sponcil/Kloth like I wanted to see Crabb/Phil. Me too. Kloth is already the equal of Claes, if not already ahead, and that is after only three AVPs. By next year Kloth will be ahead by a good margin. In two years there won't even be any rational discussion on the matter. Our two best Paris bigs *would* be Alix and Kloth, with nobody else really within striking distance. Does USAV care? I'm sure they do, but wondering whether they have any interest in trying to figure out how to get TKN into FIVB events to even have the chance of qualifying via FIVB world tour points. Is she? Not sure how you can justify that conclusion yet. I think to some extent it depends on if you believe FIVB Slaes is the real version or 2021 AVP Slaes, although I think its somewhere in between. Even then, what does Kloth do better than Kelly? Here are the areas where I see Kelly with a massive advantage: (Lots of these are relatively easy fixes for Taryn over the next year or two, but you said right now so..) 1. Setting. Kelly has much better hands, is much quicker to the ball, makes more out of broken plays, and generally has better location on her sets. Both are good setters on good passes (permissive reffing allowing) but on bad passes or marginal ones Kelly is much better. 2. Speed and quickness. Kloth is very slow by international standards, whereas Kelly has improved her mobility every year, she isn't quick like some of the smaller blockers, but she is fairly mobile for a blocker. 3. Dropping off the net. Taryn is incredibly weak at this skill. (Its the single area most in need of improvement for her) 4. Attacking. Taryn still attacks the ball like a college player, in other words she often takes less than a full approach and jump, gives away shooting v hitting very early in a lot of cases, and makes a lot of errors. Kelly also makes a lot of errors, but many come on option attacks and here I am referring to her 3rd contact attacking. 5. Option play - Taryn will need to keep improving this as they move up in opposition. Kelly is already one of the best. Only April and Summer have done it better in recent US history - although she does it too much. 6. Passing - Again Kelly is just much more mobile at this point and that gives her an advantage. Not really sure what Taryn does better at this point, maybe blocking in some situations but her mobility will also hurt her there against teams that move sets around a lot. She did average more blocks than Claes on the AVP, but that may be a result of strategy, Slaes' slump, etc. I do think Kloth probably has more long term potential than Claes, but Kelly is close to reaching her peak, whereas Taryn's game still has a lot of holes. I also think our impressions of both players are probably skewed to some extent because of the degree to which they have partners that are very good fits and paper over their faults, Nuss' speed covering Taryn's lack of mobility for example and Sponcil tolerating the option offense and generating so many points with her D, whereas Kelly doesn't generate that many points blocking |
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Post by haze on Sept 21, 2021 8:59:34 GMT -5
I like Kloth, but I don't see her anywhere close to Claes right now. It's not even an argument for her.
Anyone who knows anything about volleyball knows when watching that team that Knuss is the heart and soul of that team. That isn't any disrespect to Kloth.
I also think Claes and Knuss would beat Sponcil and Kloth 8 or 9 times out of 10 right now.
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Post by wisco on Sept 21, 2021 9:15:24 GMT -5
I agree with 99% of what you had written. I think the biggest point is that I believe Kelly is close to her peak while Kloth seems to have a lot of room to grow. I think the two thinks Kloth already does better is blocking and her serve. She takes up so much more room then Kelly and always will. Kelly seemed to get better at making moves as the year went on but still just doesn't have a big block. I also think Kloth jump serve has the potential to be a big weapon. I was surprised Claes had more aces then Kloth so maybe I am projecting, but based on eye test I prefer Kloth serve. I also am very impressed with Kloth sideout game. She obviously doesn't get many serves but very rarely have I seen her get in rut siding out. She was actually second behind April Ross in hitting pct%.
I also think all the things that Nuss does to make Kloth better are very similar to what Sponcil can do. I also see Kloth having the ability to go on 2 to help out Sponcil, just not at the frequency Kelly does. However I think Sponcil actually needs less of Kelly going on 2 to help her develop her side out game. I think the ceiling of Sponcil/Claes is solid top 5/10 team in the world with a chance to medal every week.
I don't know what the Sponcil/Kloth partnership could be. When I look at the weakness of Sponcil/Claes it seems to me to be Claes is not dominate enough at the net consistently and they have periods where they seem to mentally break down. They should have never lost that Canada match at Olympics. I think adding Kloth to Sponcil would add additional point scoring opportunities with Kloth serve/block.
Ultimately I don't think either team will break up so it's all probably for nothing. I think the discussion that could be more fun would be who is better Sponcil vs Nuss. I am team Sponcil mainly because she has proven it on FIVB and I trust her off the net more then Nuss (could easily say same for Kelly vs Kloth, however I think people can see some mental weakness in Kelly at times). However counting out Nuss is never a good idea.
Very excited for the womens game these next 4 years.
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Post by wisco on Sept 21, 2021 9:22:07 GMT -5
I like Kloth, but I don't see her anywhere close to Claes right now. It's not even an argument for her. Anyone who knows anything about volleyball knows when watching that team that Knuss is the heart and soul of that team. That isn't any disrespect to Kloth. I also think Claes and Knuss would beat Sponcil and Kloth 8 or 9 times out of 10 right now. I disagree I think it's closer to 50/50. However it's a shame things like this that could be so easily figured out and that fans love will never happen. We really need someone innovative to take over the AVP. How great would it be to have a partner vs partner tourney of top 4-8 teams. Everyone loves KOB that should be permanent staple every year. Also a blockers vs defenders tournament would be fun. Speaking of does anyone have footage of when Nick/Taylor played Jake/Phil in Florida before Olympics? How in the world did nobody in USA Volleyball think to record that match and post it? The lack of creativity behind USA volleyball is shocking. |
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Post by tamz on Sept 21, 2021 12:10:32 GMT -5
I like Kloth, but I don't see her anywhere close to Claes right now. It's not even an argument for her. Anyone who knows anything about volleyball knows when watching that team that Knuss is the heart and soul of that team. That isn't any disrespect to Kloth. I also think Claes and Knuss would beat Sponcil and Kloth 8 or 9 times out of 10 right now. I disagree I think it's closer to 50/50. However it's a shame things like this that could be so easily figured out and that fans love will never happen. We really need someone innovative to take over the AVP. How great would it be to have a partner vs partner tourney of top 4-8 teams. Everyone loves KOB that should be permanent staple every year. Also a blockers vs defenders tournament would be fun. Speaking of does anyone have footage of when Nick/Taylor played Jake/Phil in Florida before Olympics? How in the world did nobody in USA Volleyball think to record that match and post it? The lack of creativity behind USA volleyball is shocking. It was on IG live, unless someone recorded that…. I think Jake streamed it. They only played one set normally and then it was a silly/fun Blockers vs Defenders for the second set. |
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Post by volleyballbro (guru) on Sept 21, 2021 15:24:56 GMT -5
the oracle has descended back on volleytalk for the mortals to witness pure clairvoyance
as said during first time watching kloth, in the middle of her first avp MD draw ever. long before the championship run.
kloth will take home the gold in at least 1 of the next 3 olympics.
doesnt matter the partner. hughes, sponcil, knuss.
oracle out
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Post by haze on Sept 21, 2021 17:39:06 GMT -5
I like Kloth, but I don't see her anywhere close to Claes right now. It's not even an argument for her. Anyone who knows anything about volleyball knows when watching that team that Knuss is the heart and soul of that team. That isn't any disrespect to Kloth. I also think Claes and Knuss would beat Sponcil and Kloth 8 or 9 times out of 10 right now. I disagree I think it's closer to 50/50. However it's a shame things like this that could be so easily figured out and that fans love will never happen. We really need someone innovative to take over the AVP. How great would it be to have a partner vs partner tourney of top 4-8 teams. Everyone loves KOB that should be permanent staple every year. Also a blockers vs defenders tournament would be fun. Speaking of does anyone have footage of when Nick/Taylor played Jake/Phil in Florida before Olympics? How in the world did nobody in USA Volleyball think to record that match and post it? The lack of creativity behind USA volleyball is shocking. The one thing Kloth is really going to have to improve on is her transition game within the flow of the point. In some of those higher caliber matchups (mainly vs Claes), Kloth had a tendancy to just stand up at the net in nowhere land and leave Knuss covering the entire court by herself. Kloth IMO is really going to struggle Internationally with the speed of the game until that smooths out. Against better teams she could not keep up with the speed of the point. The longer the point when on the more mediocre Kloth looked. Also I don't believe Kloth started jump serving until the 2nd or 3rd event. Perhaps thats why Sponcil had more aces than her. |
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Post by haze on Sept 21, 2021 17:44:02 GMT -5
2. Speed and quickness. Kloth is very slow by international standards, whereas Kelly has improved her mobility every year, she isn't quick like some of the smaller blockers, but she is fairly mobile for a blocker. 3. Dropping off the net. Taryn is incredibly weak at this skill. (Its the single area most in need of improvement for her) 5. Option play - Taryn will need to keep improving this as they move up in opposition. Kelly is already one of the best. Only April and Summer have done it better in recent US history - although she does it too much. This is all in the transition game, and it really exposed Kloth the longer points when on. A lot of it I'm sure has to be Kloth being relatively new to the sand. Some of these comparable girls have been playing in the sand since they were like 10. She'll get better the more she plays, but it wouldn't surprise me right now if they did not have the same kind of success right away Internationally than the AVP. One of the biggest differences is the transition game especially on the womens side where blocks for kills is more neutralized then the mens side. |
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