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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2021 22:25:07 GMT -5
I hope this isn’t uncouth to ask, but what kind of salary range are these players making? Is it like minor league baseball (better in recent years, but damn near poverty level salary), mens professional basketball (play long enough and you can live pretty comfortably), or are the making millions (salary and/or endorsements)? I guess I’m still trying to wrap my head around how pro leagues work and succeed, since there’s not much comparable in the US. It depends on the league and the player. Lower leagues it can be anywhere from breaking even (expenses, rent, etc) to 20,000-30,000, etc. If you're elite (think Larson) you're making high 6-7 figures. The top teams in Asia and Turkey can pay these wages. In Italy, the wages are lower, but there's better players across the board. Kim Hill was second in the league with 240,000 (euros) in 2019 beat me to it lol |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 19, 2021 22:28:12 GMT -5
savannahbadger the biggest reason that these leagues exist (and succeed) are because of their sponsorships. Companies get heavy tax breaks when they sponsor teams, so there's heavy incentive to invest in these teams. teams in asia have huge sponsorships. Annie Drews in Japan is making bank. Larson in China is too. if a team can't acquire good sponsorship, their team/level of player they can "hire" is going to be directly affected. thats why if team names sound weird... its because they are. most include their sponsor (Vakifbank, Dynavit, etc)
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Post by clob on Dec 19, 2021 22:39:26 GMT -5
This is soooo interesting.
My list of questions is now at about 17.
I knew most of the WNBA stars spent all of their time in Europe/Asia making bank.
Glad to hear volleyball people doing it as well.
I mean I heard about some of the mens team (like Matt Anderson) possibly drawing major salaries from the Russian clubs.
Really interesting....
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Post by basil on Dec 19, 2021 23:01:10 GMT -5
This is soooo interesting. My list of questions is now at about 17. I knew most of the WNBA stars spent all of their time in Europe/Asia making bank. Glad to hear volleyball people doing it as well. I mean I heard about some of the mens team (like Matt Anderson) possibly drawing major salaries from the Russian clubs. Really interesting.... Matt is easily making upwards of 500K, probably even now. I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure the European men make more than the women on average. |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 20, 2021 16:44:39 GMT -5
speaking of pay... I see a Polish team/agency is looking for a setter with an offer of 70k
thats more than I thought Poland would offer... but it makes sense. I remember reading awhile ago Frantti turned down a larger contract from Poland to play in Italy
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Post by clob on Dec 20, 2021 22:58:17 GMT -5
OK, first questions here. Assume I know nothing because, well, I don't.
1) I assume there's no equivalent of the NCAA in Europe. Is there? I assume most of the players out of high school (or the equivalent in Europe) just hope to go to the pros?
2) What's the season like? When does it start/end and is there a championship between the clubs/countries?
3) Say you're someone like Orzol. Why go the to US to play instead of playing pro in Europe? Looking for pros and cons. Just curious.
4) Say you're Stephanie Samedy. What kind of offers might she entertain? Talking in general.
5) If you've graduated from college in the US and still want to play (or be in the Olympics) is there any other option than Europe?
6) How do the teams figure out who they can recruit? A draft? Or do they just pick up people when they want?
7) Is it kind of like soccer/football clubs in Europe where the biggest clubs just pay for their favorite potential star?
I still have a ton of questions....
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Post by avid 2.0 on Dec 20, 2021 23:08:38 GMT -5
1) I assume there's no equivalent of the NCAA in Europe. Is there? I assume most of the players out of high school (or the equivalent in Europe) just hope to go to the pros?
Europe has youth clubs. They're amateur and are similar to how they're based in the USA... the difference is if you're really good when you're young... you move up to the professional level (one of the best OHs in the world rn is 17)
2) What's the season like? When does it start/end and is there a championship between the clubs/countries?
It starts in the fall... september/october (some leagues adjust for the olympics/world championships) goes until march/april/may depending on how good you are...
Yep. Each league has their own playoffs (usually series) but there are also continental championships (Europe is the Champions League)... Those champions compete in the Club World Championship (which just finished the other day)
3) Say you're someone like Orzol. Why go the to US to play instead of playing pro in Europe? Looking for pros and cons. Just curious.
Pros: Free education... So many players dont have any skills once they're done playing to do any sort of professional work. A lot of players are starting to do online school while playing now. Another pro is the level of the NCAA isn't much lower than some of the leagues in Europe... if you're not a superstar... the NCAA can be a very good route. And there's less pressure.
4) Say you're Stephanie Samedy. What kind of offers might she entertain? Talking in general.
Eh... it depends... Covid has changed the market a lot. Jordan Thompson got a nice contract out of college, but she's very much an anomaly. Italy has the best league, but doesn't pay the most. Turkey would if Samedy goes there.
5) If you've graduated from college in the US and still want to play (or be in the Olympics) is there any other option than Europe?
if you're a new graduate... its going to be Europe or Brazil/South America. The Asian teams won't hire someone right out of college (in most cases)... Puerto Rico has a spring league that recent graduates use a lot before moving to Europe/elsewhere in the fall.
6) How do the teams figure out who they can recruit? A draft? Or do they just pick up people when they want?
It's free game. Players will sign with an agent and agents offers those players to teams who need them or have the budget to hire them.
7) Is it kind of like soccer/football clubs in Europe where the biggest clubs just pay for their favorite potential star?
In a way.... Talent is a lot more spread-out in the leagues because of foreigner limits (each team has to have a certain amount of local/domestic players on the court).... but 5ish (-/+) clubs definitely poach the best players.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2021 23:09:32 GMT -5
OK, first questions here. Assume I know nothing because, well, I don't. 1) I assume there's no equivalent of the NCAA in Europe. Is there? I assume most of the players out of high school (or the equivalent in Europe) just hope to go to the pros? 2) What's the season like? When does it start/end and is there a championship between the clubs/countries? 3) Say you're someone like Orzol. Why go the to US to play instead of playing pro in Europe? Looking for pros and cons. Just curious. 4) Say you're Stephanie Samedy. What kind of offers might she entertain? Talking in general. 5) If you've graduated from college in the US and still want to play (or be in the Olympics) is there any other option than Europe? 6) How do the teams figure out who they can recruit? A draft? Or do they just pick up people when they want? 7) Is it kind of like soccer/football clubs in Europe where the biggest clubs just pay for their favorite potential star? I still have a ton of questions.... I’ll take a stab at some of these. 5. There are other leagues in Asia and Brazil that some players play in. Sarah Wilhite recently spent a season in Brazil and Cuttino is there now. Samedy I think is going to go to a lower level Italian team but it will still be great for her development because the competition in the league. 6- teams sign who they want. They have limited funds so they try and make the best roster they can using the money available so they might spend a big percent of their funds on one great player or maybe spread it out more for a few good players if that makes sense. No there isn’t really an NCAA equivalent in Europe at least to my knowledge. |
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Post by vbct3 on Dec 20, 2021 23:13:16 GMT -5
OK, first questions here. Assume I know nothing because, well, I don't. 1) I assume there's no equivalent of the NCAA in Europe. Is there? I assume most of the players out of high school (or the equivalent in Europe) just hope to go to the pros? 2) What's the season like? When does it start/end and is there a championship between the clubs/countries? 3) Say you're someone like Orzol. Why go the to US to play instead of playing pro in Europe? Looking for pros and cons. Just curious. 4) Say you're Stephanie Samedy. What kind of offers might she entertain? Talking in general. 5) If you've graduated from college in the US and still want to play (or be in the Olympics) is there any other option than Europe? 6) How do the teams figure out who they can recruit? A draft? Or do they just pick up people when they want? 7) Is it kind of like soccer/football clubs in Europe where the biggest clubs just pay for their favorite potential star? I still have a ton of questions.... I'll do my best to chime in here, but others will give their opinions as well. 1) Scholastic sports, to my knowledge, is a uniquely American experience. Most places around the world, the sports you play tend to be for clubs rather than sponsored by your school. Japan being one notable exception. Speaking to many European countries, and I apologize if this is inaccurate but it's just my understanding, but tons of the top potential athletes sign to play with local clubs - or get plucked by larger clubs - and may even move away from their families to go to a sports academy in the hopes of one day breaking into the pro-ranks. Imagine the club sports system here in the US, with each of the large clubs having a pro-team, and B/C/D squads below that, then youth development programs below that. 2) Each league may vary in season start and length, but generally speaking you'll find the European leagues (and Brazil) running from September through March/April. The Italian and German leagues specifically can have their playoff rounds not end until the end of April, whereas the Chinese and Japanese leagues will often start in October and end in February/March. The Puerto Rican league, at least last year, was a summer-league. In the past (prior to the devastation of the hurricanes) it was not uncommon for many December NCAA graduates to sign their first pro contracts in Puerto Rico to play spring-ball, before signing a full year deal the next year in Europe. There are some cross-country competitions such as the Club World Championships, or Champions League. Avid can probably speak better to the qualification process for the clubs to get into those, and signing with a club that competes in Champions League is a big draw for American athletes - as there are no foreigner limits in Champions League play. 3) Pretty individual per athlete. Maybe they couldn't sign a big enough money contract to play pro, so they figure USA is a good trade-off. Some just want to come live in the USA because it's romanticized in modern media. Others actually value the idea of getting an education - because playing professionally has a shelf-life, and there are no guarantees. 4) Can't speak to the $ factor, but I do know lots of clubs are and have been interested in her. 5) Europe, South America, Puerto Rico, Asia. There are leagues all over, except in the US. The top paying leagues would be in places like Italy, Turkey, Russia, China, Japan, Korea, Brazil. Everywhere else can often be relative peanuts. And the level of competition can vary widely, especially once you drop into 2nd division leagues. 6) Agents have a pulse on the NCAA market. Clubs have good relationships with agents, the more savvy clubs also just follow NCAA volleyball and have an idea. There is no draft process. Tell the agencies what your needs are, who you want, the agents then try and sign those athletes to their agencies. There are always agents lurking around the final-four. 7) Yes. |
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Post by clob on Dec 21, 2021 0:56:55 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the great answers.
I'm more curious than ever.
I'm also really curious how many people don't seem to give a %*$# when their favorite players have moved on from the NCAA.
Anyway, more questions to follow.
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Post by basil on Dec 21, 2021 2:00:28 GMT -5
Just to add a bit onto the pay topic (think the other questions were answered as well as possible): the clubs (barring anything crazy) will pay for your apartment and I'm pretty sure most clubs will give you a car/individual transport of some kind. so your salary is lower but the only thing you're really paying for during season is groceries/general needs for living. for someone like Samedy, a first-time pro fresh out of the NCAA I think it's very unlikely for her to be making six figures right out the gate. for further reference, here is a thread from last year about the top paid Italian players. note that the men are paid MUCH more than the women on average in Italy (due to popularity) and only the top teams like Imoco and Novara can pay their foreigners extremely well. as a foreigner, you're definitely making more in Asia than you are in Europe, but I think you are sacrificing some level of play/comfort of other Americans around by doing so. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 2:38:14 GMT -5
This is interesting. So what are the best leagues to watch? Say I only want to get invested in two of them... Italy and Turkey hands down. I don't watch any other leagues except Club World Champs, Champions League, European Championships and summer time USA National Team events (VNL, WCH, WCup, OG's etc. Our ladies are the current reigning Olympic Champions. It's an exciting time to follow USA Volleyball, specifically the Indoor Sitting team and the Women's Senior NT. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 2:42:00 GMT -5
me and basil have plenty of time (well according to vbprisoner ) so ask away  I can try and help too avid definitely knows more than me but I have a few specific connections and sources. Pro vball is a ton of fun to dive into for sure! I can also help answer any International Questions. I follow that very, very closely. I don't follow club that much except for teams our best American Players are in and a few I will probably always follow based on their player configuration. Imoco Volley Conegliano and Vakifbank Istanbul are the two best women's teams in the world right now. Kathryn Plummer, Megan Courtney, Michelle Bartsh-Hackley and Chiaka Ogbogu currently start on those teams in most of their important matches. Who do you follow if I may ask? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2021 5:55:23 GMT -5
I can try and help too avid definitely knows more than me but I have a few specific connections and sources. Pro vball is a ton of fun to dive into for sure! I can also help answer any International Questions. I follow that very, very closely. I don't follow club that much except for teams our best American Players are in and a few I will probably always follow based on their player configuration. Imoco Volley Conegliano and Vakifbank Istanbul are the two best women's teams in the world right now. Kathryn Plummer, Megan Courtney, Michelle Bartsh-Hackley and Chiaka Ogbogu currently start on those teams in most of their important matches. Who do you follow if I may ask? are you asking me who I follow or OP? Also yes toddy is a great resource |
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Post by vbct3 on Dec 22, 2021 19:25:39 GMT -5
I'm also really curious how many people don't seem to give a %*$# when their favorite players have moved on from the NCAA. I would say 99% of NCAA volleyball fans operate under the whole "volleyball doesn't exist outside of college except for the Olympics" mantra. Which, to be fair, from a media perspective is true. And while I can act surprised, once you sit and think about it, it's not all that surprising. Most college sports fans are loyal to their favorite / hometown / alma mater team. It's the school they are usually loyal to, not the individual athlete. Some (mostly football and men's basketball) athletes will have a fan-base from their universities, but most other sports don't give college sports fans the opportunity to see their favorite athletes contribute at the professional levels immediately after college - while the athletes are still recent. Think Major League Baseball, where most players who get drafted out of college (especially Juniors and Seniors) are late round draft picks who toil in the minor leagues for most if not all of their careers. So in general, it is of my opinion that most college sports fans just don't care to follow the athletes with their clubs overseas. |
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