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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Dec 22, 2021 20:53:38 GMT -5
It all depends on the player, just like relating to your supervisor. Somebody might relate better to someone that looks like them. Sometimes not. Not a universal answer. I think the key is that the total coaching staff has to have diversity of genders and races as much as you can. Which is why I hate 'we need more women' from some people. I don't see them EVER mentioning the total number of black male head coaches in volleyball. Does the count still end at "Ray Gooden"? How you gonna leave out Asians, Redheads and Australian Aboriginals?
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Post by vbnerd on Dec 22, 2021 21:00:02 GMT -5
It all depends on the player, just like relating to your supervisor. Somebody might relate better to someone that looks like them. Sometimes not. Not a universal answer. I think the key is that the total coaching staff has to have diversity of genders and races as much as you can. Which is why I hate 'we need more women' from some people. I don't see them EVER mentioning the total number of black male head coaches in volleyball. Does the count still end at "Ray Gooden"? Kyle Robinson at Quinnipiac Ryan Adams at Lafayette Kevin Rogers at FDU resigned and was replaced on an interim basis by Karl France Nicki Holmes was given an opportunity at URI - I've heard very different stories about what happened there but they hired another person of color there. And I may be missing some, it's not an exhaustive list. Is it a lot? No, but it isn't one, would be my point.
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Post by jayj79 on Dec 22, 2021 21:05:39 GMT -5
I'd be alright with a women's sports league that required all head coaches to be women too. If you can limit the gender of the players, why can't you limit the gender of the coaches as well?
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Post by pelican on Dec 22, 2021 21:18:04 GMT -5
I'd be alright with a women's sports league that required all head coaches to be women too. If you can limit the gender of the players, why can't you limit the gender of the coaches as well? I believe that would fall under what's considered a bona fide occupational qualification. You can hire a female actress for a female role in a movie, but you can't discriminate on who the backstage crew are. Hooters can hire exclusively women to be servers, but I don't believe they can discriminate in hiring dishwashers. Similarly, a pro league could be reserved for female players, but I don't think that would apply to coaches. But I'm not a lawyer.
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Post by sonofdogman on Dec 23, 2021 2:00:19 GMT -5
It's not really about who is getting hired unless there was gender discrimination in a specific case. It's about finding ways to get more women qualified and ready for opportunities. Especially for places where the opportunities are non existent, like in men's sports.
I know there are many who disagree with that.
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Post by wonkaman on Dec 23, 2021 11:41:54 GMT -5
As a player you do not really care if it is a male coach or a female coach. An Olympic gold medalist coach or recreational player turned coach. Your only concern about that coach is whether he or she is going to make you a better volleyball player. And if they can the player will love you for it, no matter your race, sex or credentials.
As an administrator your job is to find that person who will make those players better. It is not an easy process but one that should always be taken into consideration when making a hire.
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Post by Wiswell on Dec 23, 2021 13:00:29 GMT -5
I'd be alright with a women's sports league that required all head coaches to be women too. If you can limit the gender of the players, why can't you limit the gender of the coaches as well? I believe that would fall under what's considered a bona fide occupational qualification. You can hire a female actress for a female role in a movie, but you can't discriminate on who the backstage crew are. Hooters can hire exclusively women to be servers, but I don't believe they can discriminate in hiring dishwashers. Similarly, a pro league could be reserved for female players, but I don't think that would apply to coaches. But I'm not a lawyer. . No on Hooters. Because you are saying you need "hooters" to serve and that is not a "qualification" to actually serve.
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Post by n00b on Dec 23, 2021 13:01:08 GMT -5
Which is why I hate 'we need more women' from some people. I don't see them EVER mentioning the total number of black male head coaches in volleyball. Does the count still end at "Ray Gooden"? Honest question. Is there an actual pool of black male coaches as there is women? Right. I think this is a very fair way of looking at it. Also, for basically any coaching job that opens up, male applicants massively out-number female applicants. Does that matter?
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Dec 23, 2021 14:12:23 GMT -5
As a player you do not really care if it is a male coach or a female coach. An Olympic gold medalist coach or recreational player turned coach. Your only concern about that coach is whether he or she is going to make you a better volleyball player. And if they can the player will love you for it, no matter your race, sex or credentials. As an administrator your job is to find that person who will make those players better. It is not an easy process but one that should always be taken into consideration when making a hire. I would've assumed that an Admin's job is to hire someone that makes the Program better. Typically, an offshoot of that would be that players improve but it's not an automatic. Attract top talent to help that program flourish, but I'm not an Admin.
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Post by staticb on Dec 23, 2021 15:35:20 GMT -5
Right. I think this is a very fair way of looking at it. Also, for basically any coaching job that opens up, male applicants massively out-number female applicants. Does that matter? Is this true for volleyball these days? In today's age, I'm not sure that should be the case. Like 5x the women play this sport compared to men, there should be way more female applicants these days. I know in the old days--many of the male coaching legends we have only got into volleyball because they couldn't get a gig coaching the sport they really wanted. But those days should be over...
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Dec 23, 2021 16:13:49 GMT -5
I'd be alright with a women's sports league that required all head coaches to be women too. If you can limit the gender of the players, why can't you limit the gender of the coaches as well? Because, in theory you're trying to make sure the field of competition is somewhat level from a physical perspective. A male coach has no physical advantage over a female coach in terms of all that goes into coaching.
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Post by n00b on Dec 23, 2021 16:21:17 GMT -5
Right. I think this is a very fair way of looking at it. Also, for basically any coaching job that opens up, male applicants massively out-number female applicants. Does that matter? Is this true for volleyball these days? In today's age, I'm not sure that should be the case. Like 5x the women play this sport compared to men, there should be way more female applicants these days. I know in the old days--many of the male coaching legends we have only got into volleyball because they couldn't get a gig coaching the sport they really wanted. But those days should be over... It definitely is.
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Post by jayj79 on Dec 23, 2021 18:46:38 GMT -5
I'd be alright with a women's sports league that required all head coaches to be women too. If you can limit the gender of the players, why can't you limit the gender of the coaches as well? Because, in theory you're trying to make sure the field of competition is somewhat level from a physical perspective. A male coach has no physical advantage over a female coach in terms of all that goes into coaching. but they have societal/cultural advantage
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Dec 23, 2021 18:51:31 GMT -5
Because, in theory you're trying to make sure the field of competition is somewhat level from a physical perspective. A male coach has no physical advantage over a female coach in terms of all that goes into coaching. but they have societal/cultural advantage While I don't disagree with you on that, I do wonder how that applies. Could you expand please?
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Post by jayj79 on Dec 23, 2021 21:25:56 GMT -5
but they have societal/cultural advantage While I don't disagree with you on that, I do wonder how that applies. Could you expand please? I just think that women coaches deserve a level competitive field in the coaching market of women's sports in the same way that women athletes should have in those sports.
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