|
Post by Boom! on Feb 11, 2022 15:58:58 GMT -5
LOL I've been the recruitment side and the hiring side, public and private. In higher education, for example, women frequently relocate for high level administrative positions such as President, Vice President, Dean, AD. I am familiar with the difficulties--and there are difficulties--but your response tells me that maybe it's you who doesn't know what they're talking about. That’s great. Head volleyball coach is not nearly as lucrative of a position as any of the things listed. Women being willing to relocate to be the president of a university is wayyyyy different than being willing to relocate to accept the vast majority of D1 head coaching jobs. The candidate pools he was referencing were high level executives, CFO and CEO's with specific skills. Is that very different from the higher ed positions I mentioned? I think not. What is different is the higher ed culture vs the traditional corporate culture. Neither one is particularly adept at hiring women in the grand scheme, but I was making the point that inherent unwillingness to relocate is not the root cause. This isn't the first time you've interjected with an obviously incorrect inference, so please, either keep up or butt out. And to the point of D! Head Coaches, these hires occurred this year according to the list compiled earlier: Female to Female: Abilene Christian Alabama George Washington Gonzaga LSU Southern Miss UTSA Male to Female: North Texas Chattanooga Temple Appalachian State Notre Dame Penn State N. Texas I haven't done the specific analysis, but are you suggesting that all of those positions where females were hired involved "local" hires that didn't involve relocation? Off the top, Salima and Leah Johnson are two that I know involved relocations, so clearly the answer is no.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2022 16:36:47 GMT -5
That’s great. Head volleyball coach is not nearly as lucrative of a position as any of the things listed. Women being willing to relocate to be the president of a university is wayyyyy different than being willing to relocate to accept the vast majority of D1 head coaching jobs. The candidate pools he was referencing were high level executives, CFO and CEO's with specific skills. Is that very different from the higher ed positions I mentioned? I think not. What is different is the higher ed culture vs the traditional corporate culture. Neither one is particularly adept at hiring women in the grand scheme, but I was making the point that inherent unwillingness to relocate is not the root cause. This isn't the first time you've interjected with an obviously incorrect inference, so please, either keep up or butt out. And to the point of D! Head Coaches, these hires occurred this year according to the list compiled earlier: Female to Female: Abilene Christian Alabama George Washington Gonzaga LSU Southern Miss UTSA Male to Female: North Texas Chattanooga Temple Appalachian State Notre Dame Penn State N. Texas I haven't done the specific analysis, but are you suggesting that all of those positions where females were hired involved "local" hires that didn't involve relocation? Off the top, Salima and Leah Johnson are two that I know involved relocations, so clearly the answer is no. You're taking a comment about women being more hesitant to relocate and trying to make it be that they never do. Obviously that isn't true. Notre Dame offered Salima a TON of money and Johnson probably doubled her salary (at least). Yes, most women would relocate for $300k+.
|
|
|
Post by Boom! on Feb 11, 2022 16:39:10 GMT -5
The candidate pools he was referencing were high level executives, CFO and CEO's with specific skills. Is that very different from the higher ed positions I mentioned? I think not. What is different is the higher ed culture vs the traditional corporate culture. Neither one is particularly adept at hiring women in the grand scheme, but I was making the point that inherent unwillingness to relocate is not the root cause. This isn't the first time you've interjected with an obviously incorrect inference, so please, either keep up or butt out. And to the point of D! Head Coaches, these hires occurred this year according to the list compiled earlier: Female to Female: Abilene Christian Alabama George Washington Gonzaga LSU Southern Miss UTSA Male to Female: North Texas Chattanooga Temple Appalachian State Notre Dame Penn State N. Texas I haven't done the specific analysis, but are you suggesting that all of those positions where females were hired involved "local" hires that didn't involve relocation? Off the top, Salima and Leah Johnson are two that I know involved relocations, so clearly the answer is no. You're taking a comment about women being more hesitant to relocate and trying to make it be that they never do. Obviously that isn't true. Notre Dame offered Salima a TON of money and Johnson probably doubled her salary (at least). Yes, most women would relocate for $300k+. The poster that I responded to said otherwise. Again, keep up.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2022 16:42:30 GMT -5
I haven't done the specific analysis, but are you suggesting that all of those positions where females were hired involved "local" hires that didn't involve relocation? Off the top, Salima and Leah Johnson are two that I know involved relocations, so clearly the answer is no. And in case you want something more than anecdotal evidence, here's a study that reaches that conclusion: " We find that coupled women show a considerably lower willingness to move for a better interregional job offer compared to coupled men. In addition, this difference in attitude is mirrored by differences in actual behavior, as women also report fewer interregional applications than men." www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/53/40-53.pdf
|
|
|
Post by Boom! on Feb 11, 2022 16:49:14 GMT -5
I haven't done the specific analysis, but are you suggesting that all of those positions where females were hired involved "local" hires that didn't involve relocation? Off the top, Salima and Leah Johnson are two that I know involved relocations, so clearly the answer is no. And in case you want something more than anecdotal evidence, here's a study that reaches that conclusion: " We find that coupled women show a considerably lower willingness to move for a better interregional job offer compared to coupled men. In addition, this difference in attitude is mirrored by differences in actual behavior, as women also report fewer interregional applications than men." www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/53/40-53.pdfI don't disagree entirely, and I said as much. What I am saying is that a different recruitment and negotiation approach is or can be more useful and effective, because the cost/benefit analysis taken by female candidates and potential candidates is sometimes quite different than male candidates.
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2022 17:10:58 GMT -5
And in case you want something more than anecdotal evidence, here's a study that reaches that conclusion: " We find that coupled women show a considerably lower willingness to move for a better interregional job offer compared to coupled men. In addition, this difference in attitude is mirrored by differences in actual behavior, as women also report fewer interregional applications than men." www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/53/40-53.pdfI don't disagree entirely, and I said as much. What I am saying is that a different recruitment and negotiation approach is or can be more useful and effective, because the cost/benefit analysis taken by female candidates and potential candidates is sometimes quite different than male candidates. I'm curious... Is the "different recruitment and negotiation approach" anything more complicated than offering a higher salary?
|
|
|
Post by Boom! on Feb 11, 2022 17:32:47 GMT -5
I don't disagree entirely, and I said as much. What I am saying is that a different recruitment and negotiation approach is or can be more useful and effective, because the cost/benefit analysis taken by female candidates and potential candidates is sometimes quite different than male candidates. I'm curious... Is the "different recruitment and negotiation approach" anything more complicated than offering a higher salary? Yes. As just one example, one of the different recruitment approaches to the traditional job posting or targeted recruitment (by which I mean, compile a list of people you intend to contact) is to expand the potential pool by relying on existing networks, such as professional women's groups (for example, Women in Engineering, etc). The idea is that women (and often member of minority groups) may be more receptive to applying for positions (or being nominated) if the information they receive about the position comes from a known or trusted source other than the job posting or hiring company/agency. To make an incomplete analogy, I liken the posters approach to going to a bar to find a date or a spouse. The other way to do that is to look for that same thing at a charity event, church, etc. and/or to meet her friends first. A lot of executive search firms like to have a tightly controlled process because they're being paid for that specific result, and want to deliver results quickly, or minimize the "risk" of a bad hire, often at the expense of casting a wider net.
|
|
|
Post by kimdc on Feb 13, 2022 22:03:49 GMT -5
Assuming that jobs/recruiting in the corporate world and jobs in coaching operate the same way is kind of odd.
I cover a lot of women's sports at Arizona and around the Pac-12, and we see women moving around a lot for *assistant coaching* jobs. And by that I mean that I have seen 3 just in women's basketball and softball at Arizona *this year*, and I have seen WBB assistants move in and out every couple of years for much less money and security than HC positions. The difference is that the WBB HC at Arizona makes a point of seeking out women, especially Black women, for her staff. In volleyball at Arizona, Dave Rubio just hired a woman AC who was living in Philadelphia. He said that he made a point this time to get more women into his pool. It's a choice in many ways. If you can make that choice with AC and they will relocate, I fail to see why it wouldn't work with HC positions.
|
|
|
Post by B1Gminnesotafan on Feb 14, 2022 8:57:03 GMT -5
I think part of the problem with hiring female head coaches is having a big enough pool of experience AC to choose from. I would like to see more female assistants hired.
|
|
|
Post by kimdc on Feb 14, 2022 15:34:55 GMT -5
I think part of the problem with hiring female head coaches is having a big enough pool of experience AC to choose from. I would like to see more female assistants hired. I do agree with this. Have to start climbing the ladder
|
|
|
Post by n00b on Feb 14, 2022 16:54:26 GMT -5
I think part of the problem with hiring female head coaches is having a big enough pool of experience AC to choose from. I would like to see more female assistants hired. I'm curious about this. I believe every Power 5 program has a female assistant (or close to it). What would an ideal world look like to you?
|
|
|
Post by B1Gminnesotafan on Feb 14, 2022 18:19:22 GMT -5
I think part of the problem with hiring female head coaches is having a big enough pool of experience AC to choose from. I would like to see more female assistants hired. I'm curious about this. I believe every Power 5 program has a female assistant (or close to it). What would an ideal world look like to you? A female? When I look at men's teams I see almost all male assistants. I would like to see women outnumber men in women's sports similarly. How many all male staffs are there and how many all female in women's D1 volleyball? And I'm not talking about doing it all at once and hiring women who aren't qualified; I would like to move that direction.
|
|
|
Post by Boom! on Feb 14, 2022 18:21:43 GMT -5
I think part of the problem with hiring female head coaches is having a big enough pool of experience AC to choose from. I would like to see more female assistants hired. I'm curious about this. I believe every Power 5 program has a female assistant (or close to it). What would an ideal world look like to you? If I can interject, I think assembling a coaching staff is about covering all the bases to ensure that all the aspects of managing a volleyball program are adequately met. Having at least one female assistant coach on staff in a women's volleyball program just makes sense because it isn't prudent to assume that female athletes will feel comfortable addressing or raising all the issues that may exist. A head coach is responsible for player and training development, administration (budget, travel, scholarships, academic advising, match preparation, recruiting, public relations, fund-raising, etc). Managing and delegating those responsibilities amongst the staff is the most important thing to ensure a head coach's responsibility. The first step is obviously for the head coach to decide/understand his or her own's strengths and then align the staff responsibilities to fill out the needs. Someone like John Cook can afford to bring in a young female assistant in a learning or mentorship role because he's experienced enough to make that work. It doesn't make sense to me for someone like Tyler Hildebrand to bring in 2 young inexperienced (coaching-wise or NCAA administrative-wise) because of his own learning curve as a head coach. So, the ideal depends upon the actual mix of people, skills, experience and abilities, but it begins with an astute assessment by the head coach of his or her own strengths (or an assment by the AD, but it seems to be rare that AD's impose that type of requirement).
|
|
|
Post by ineedajob on Feb 14, 2022 18:24:54 GMT -5
I'm curious about this. I believe every Power 5 program has a female assistant (or close to it). What would an ideal world look like to you? A female? When I look at men's teams I see almost all male assistants. I would like to see women outnumber men in women's sports similarly. How many all male staffs are there and how many all female in women's D1 volleyball? And I'm not talking about doing it all at once and hiring women who aren't qualified; I would like to move that direction. I’d rather see more women coaching men’s volleyball instead of seeing women’s volleyball have 98% of its coaches be women.
|
|
|
Post by kimdc on Feb 14, 2022 18:55:56 GMT -5
A female? When I look at men's teams I see almost all male assistants. I would like to see women outnumber men in women's sports similarly. How many all male staffs are there and how many all female in women's D1 volleyball? And I'm not talking about doing it all at once and hiring women who aren't qualified; I would like to move that direction. I’d rather see more women coaching men’s volleyball instead of seeing women’s volleyball have 98% of its coaches be women. I am just the opposite. I hate the idea that it's better to coach men's sports--basketball, volleyball, whatever. I would much rather see 100% female staffs for women's sports. In college volleyball, I would argue that women's is a more prestigious sport, anyway. People generally consider it the women's answer to football not men's volleyball. Men's volleyball is not even offered in a lot of places.
|
|