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Post by Longhorn20 on Nov 17, 2022 12:52:52 GMT -5
I wonder if rumors of big backers/NBA and an already announced DFW means that Cuban is involved
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Post by SayonaraTachikara on Nov 17, 2022 13:05:36 GMT -5
I wonder if rumors of big backers/NBA and an already announced DFW means that Cuban is involved My guess would be Jermaine O'Neal also owner of Drive Nation in the DFW area. |
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Post by volleyguy on Nov 17, 2022 13:07:58 GMT -5
I get these are broad numbers but lets go with the $60k per player, for 10 players is $600,000. And 16 matches per team would suggest 8 home games, per team. $600,000/8 is $75,000 profit per night to pay the players. So if they can average 5000 people per game, and a profit margin of $15 per person, they can break even on salaries. That doesn't account for coaches, trainers, officials, travel, and it doesn't account for sponsors, media rights, etc so like I said, this is broad and oversimplified. The point is, if this is to become profitable, they are either going to need to charge Taylor Swift prices or significantly more people in the US are going to have to make it a habit to watch live volleyball played by people they aren't related to. The same is likely true for AU and LOVB. I hope it works but over the year I've heard so many reasons that it cannot work, that I guess I need to see it before I'll believe it. You are assuming that they need to make money right away. I don't think that is the intent. You have to look at the business model. USPV started with a limited model. The league owned all the teams, played a limited schedule, charged a minimal entry fee and played in small college arenas. They also had a financial backer who understood that they will be in the red for a few years until they get established. The problem was that the financial backer's main business tanked and they yanked their investment right before the start of the second season, giving the league no wiggle room to find another financial backer to keep the league operating. This league's model is individual team ownership, just like all the other professional leagues in other sports. The idea is that the ownership can spend as much as they want, but the immediate goal is to establish the league's legitimacy and grow a solid fan base for years two, three, four, etc. I am pretty sure that the owners are coming in with eyes wide open, they know that they won't make money immediately. Hopefully they are in it for the long game. So your back of the envelope calculations seem accurate, but that isn't the real numbers that they are aiming for immediately. I hope. The league's model involves team ownership, but it isn't clear yet what specific control or role the league has. Will teams be able to spend as much as they want, or will they establish some type of salary cap to ensure that the teams are reasonably competitive with one another? Other current US pro leagues have strict owner/member criteria and a Commissioner with authority to enforce rules and actions. That structure may not be entirely feasible during the start-up phase. The two teams/cities announced so far are in the hometown of the two Founders, but under what conditions the addition of new owners takes place is a crucial question for anyone considering becoming an owner. I'm sure they have a plan/structure that would be clear to anyone considering becoming a part of the league, it's just not part of this announcement. |
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Post by knapplc on Nov 17, 2022 13:32:20 GMT -5
Apologies if this was already answered, but do we know where the teams will be located yet?
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Post by Phaedrus on Nov 17, 2022 14:10:15 GMT -5
Apologies if this was already answered, but do we know where the teams will be located yet? 8-10 teams. Only sure teams are Columbus and Dallas. They are in negotiations with other cities. |
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Post by volleyguy on Nov 17, 2022 16:09:13 GMT -5
Not really digging the logo:  And this photo is just depressing:  |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Nov 17, 2022 16:14:13 GMT -5
okay so more teams will be announced in december... and players starting in February
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Post by vbnerd on Nov 17, 2022 19:17:46 GMT -5
okay so more teams will be announced in december... and players starting in February February of 2024 |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Nov 17, 2022 19:20:14 GMT -5
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Post by vbnerd on Nov 17, 2022 19:28:47 GMT -5
I get these are broad numbers but lets go with the $60k per player, for 10 players is $600,000. And 16 matches per team would suggest 8 home games, per team. $600,000/8 is $75,000 profit per night to pay the players. So if they can average 5000 people per game, and a profit margin of $15 per person, they can break even on salaries. That doesn't account for coaches, trainers, officials, travel, and it doesn't account for sponsors, media rights, etc so like I said, this is broad and oversimplified. The point is, if this is to become profitable, they are either going to need to charge Taylor Swift prices or significantly more people in the US are going to have to make it a habit to watch live volleyball played by people they aren't related to. The same is likely true for AU and LOVB. I hope it works but over the year I've heard so many reasons that it cannot work, that I guess I need to see it before I'll believe it. You are assuming that they need to make money right away. I don't think that is the intent. You have to look at the business model. USPV started with a limited model. The league owned all the teams, played a limited schedule, charged a minimal entry fee and played in small college arenas. They also had a financial backer who understood that they will be in the red for a few years until they get established. The problem was that the financial backer's main business tanked and they yanked their investment right before the start of the second season, giving the league no wiggle room to find another financial backer to keep the league operating. This league's model is individual team ownership, just like all the other professional leagues in other sports. The idea is that the ownership can spend as much as they want, but the immediate goal is to establish the league's legitimacy and grow a solid fan base for years two, three, four, etc. I am pretty sure that the owners are coming in with eyes wide open, they know that they won't make money immediately. Hopefully they are in it for the long game. So your back of the envelope calculations seem accurate, but that isn't the real numbers that they are aiming for immediately. I hope. IDK about right away but at some point. We've heard for years that this and that are not sustainable. I think 2500 people paying $20/night would be great, but that isn't going to pay for $600,000+ of labor. What projections they are giving the potential owners. If it's an NBA Arena do 2500 volleyball fans move the needle on advertising rates in the arena? Do we know what the advertising revenue is on an AU broadcast? Will that drive a competitive bidding process for TV rights to pro volleyball? Ultimately we'll never get these answers directly but whether or not the league sticks will tell us something. |
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Post by bigfan on Nov 17, 2022 20:10:53 GMT -5
They tried this in the mid 80's and it lasted one season. |
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Post by VolleyballMag on Nov 17, 2022 21:51:46 GMT -5
I refer to both previous leagues in the story. Volleyball has grown a bit since then, eh? And there are more ways to broadcast. I'm rooting for PVF and anything else that grows the game.
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Post by fightingminime on Nov 17, 2022 22:14:56 GMT -5
I wonder if rumors of big backers/NBA and an already announced DFW means that Cuban is involved Not sure .. but I do know of at least one other NBA team involved. The group behind this have run and do run leagues (albeit in other sports) and know what they are doing. I think it's cool that volleyball has sparked the interest for them to want to do this. |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Nov 17, 2022 22:25:01 GMT -5
Apologies if this was already answered, but do we know where the teams will be located yet? OWH says they want a team in omaha |
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Post by basil on Nov 17, 2022 22:38:39 GMT -5
Apologies if this was already answered, but do we know where the teams will be located yet? OWH says they want a team in omaha they absolutely should other potential candidates in my opinion: Minneapolis, Madison/Milwaukee, Louisville, Indianapolis, Atlanta, maybe Austin? then gotta get a couple on the west coast |
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