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Post by tablealgebra on Dec 19, 2022 20:23:56 GMT -5
Yup, they both improved a ton year over year. Neither of them were passing sub 2...ever. The numbers I've seen recently have them both around 2.05. Orzol was 2.15ish in the same numbers - the best passing OH's were Kubik and Nuneviller at 2.3 and a few liberos were 2.4-ish. Since I've not seen ANY sources show them at sub 2 in months (I think one of them was in the 1.9's after 2-3 weeks) I have a hard time believing they ended sub 2 for the season. There's no question they both passed poorly at times this season and GG in particular had a tough time in the Pitt match. But for GG in particular it looked like nerves more than technique to me, and I think there's reason to believe that a freshman with good technique who struggled with nerves will make good progress. But ... to go elsewhere, it's rather insensitive to go demeaning a 19-year old's career prospects in a public forum - which, despite GG's choice to come to America to go to school, I'm sure she considers herself a prospective volleyball pro. And then to turn around and be surprisingly thin-skinned in return to be mad about being called a bad fan? Not to mention the hypocrisy? I strongly dislike criticizing ANY student-athletes on a public forum to the level of saying they'll never be good, in particular one for whom I root. I feel like when people do, and then are sensitive about the blowback you get, that it reflects poorly on that person. Clearly, there are degrees (this is nowhere near as bad as the person on the Minny thread who insisted on his right to be grossly critical of McGraw in a reply to her *mother* and was angry about the blowback) but I'd like to see us all be measured and considerate in our criticisms of not only Badgers but all student-athletes. |
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Post by SportyBucky on Dec 19, 2022 20:43:59 GMT -5
Neither of them were passing sub 2...ever. The numbers I've seen recently have them both around 2.05. Orzol was 2.15ish in the same numbers - the best passing OH's were Kubik and Nuneviller at 2.3 and a few liberos were 2.4-ish. Since I've not seen ANY sources show them at sub 2 in months (I think one of them was in the 1.9's after 2-3 weeks) I have a hard time believing they ended sub 2 for the season. There's no question they both passed poorly at times this season and GG in particular had a tough time in the Pitt match. But for GG in particular it looked like nerves more than technique to me, and I think there's reason to believe that a freshman with good technique who struggled with nerves will make good progress. But ... to go elsewhere, it's rather insensitive to go demeaning a 19-year old's career prospects in a public forum - which, despite GG's choice to come to America to go to school, I'm sure she considers herself a prospective volleyball pro. And then to turn around and be surprisingly thin-skinned in return to be mad about being called a bad fan? Not to mention the hypocrisy? I strongly dislike criticizing ANY student-athletes on a public forum to the level of saying they'll never be good, in particular one for whom I root. I feel like when people do, and then are sensitive about the blowback you get, that it reflects poorly on that person. Clearly, there are degrees (this is nowhere near as bad as the person on the Minny thread who insisted on his right to be grossly critical of McGraw in a reply to her *mother* and was angry about the blowback) but I'd like to see us all be measured and considerate in our criticisms of not only Badgers but all student-athletes. You can disagree with me, but it's my opinion and I said nothing unkind. I would truly love to know the reasons you all disagree if not simply because you want it to be true. I have an opinion based on having trained at high levels and having coached at high levels. Prefer I simply say she's great and will improve to be better than any libero we've ever had? 🙄 In fact, this is what I said...if you think I'm committing an imagined crime by saying she won't be Fleck based on my former experience, you're something else I'll refrain from spelling out. "I have confidence saying she will never be Zoe Fleck or Scott. Sorry. I believe passing is not a skill easily learned. If it was, you'd see a lot more 6 rotation outsides. Passing is likely the hardest skill to master and requires so much hand-eye I just don't see it happening. Long line of players who have tried...and failed in mastering passing. Hope she proves me wrong." |
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Post by pancake74 on Dec 19, 2022 21:41:37 GMT -5
The reason I disagree is that nobody can know GG's true potential, not even a person who trained at a high level or coached at a high level. She could blow out a knee tomorrow and underperform expectations, or she could have a transformative spring season and exceed expectations. One example of how even experienced volleyball watchers don't always know a person's potential is the ranking of high school seniors/incoming freshman classes. There were some All Americans this year that were never really ranked or covered as high schoolers/incoming freshmen (ie, Fleck, Podraza, etc). Take Danielle Hart. Nobody saw that coming, not even Dan herself, who re-opened her recruiting when her skill level took off.
"Passing is not a skill easily learned." Some people can do hard things. Many players have turned their weakest skill into a strength, including becoming a good passer. Serve receive is not a genetically inherited trait and GG already showed us she can learn new skills, like becoming an effective server at the college level after having never done it before.
I don't think you've committed a crime, I think you have some big blind spots and factually inaccurate assumptions for a person who thinks their opinion is grounded in anything other than conjecture.
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Post by tablealgebra on Dec 19, 2022 22:13:14 GMT -5
I am in particular saying that you were critical past a normal level of a player on a public forum and then surprisingly thin-skinned about being criticized yourself. Or maybe not so surprising, really - bullies hate being bullied.
And if you dislike my characterization of what you're saying as bullying - well, I'll say that I'm sure your intent is not to bully. Or be mean. But it's a public forum. And let me know about any 19 year old you know who isn't bothered by what's said about them on a public forum, because I'd be interested to meet the first such person.
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 20, 2022 2:45:44 GMT -5
The facts are simple. Some passers have improved markedly year on year at UW. GG has had some good passing matches this year. It’s not that hard to see her getting better at it. Doesn’t mean she will, but it’s just wacky to just assume she won’t.
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Post by badgerguru on Dec 20, 2022 5:04:40 GMT -5
The facts are simple. Some passers have improved markedly year on year at UW. GG has had some good passing matches this year. It’s not that hard to see her getting better at it. Doesn’t mean she will, but it’s just wacky to just assume she won’t. very wacky |
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Post by volleyball90 on Dec 20, 2022 8:40:52 GMT -5
The numbers I've seen recently have them both around 2.05. Orzol was 2.15ish in the same numbers - the best passing OH's were Kubik and Nuneviller at 2.3 and a few liberos were 2.4-ish. Since I've not seen ANY sources show them at sub 2 in months (I think one of them was in the 1.9's after 2-3 weeks) I have a hard time believing they ended sub 2 for the season. There's no question they both passed poorly at times this season and GG in particular had a tough time in the Pitt match. But for GG in particular it looked like nerves more than technique to me, and I think there's reason to believe that a freshman with good technique who struggled with nerves will make good progress. But ... to go elsewhere, it's rather insensitive to go demeaning a 19-year old's career prospects in a public forum - which, despite GG's choice to come to America to go to school, I'm sure she considers herself a prospective volleyball pro. And then to turn around and be surprisingly thin-skinned in return to be mad about being called a bad fan? Not to mention the hypocrisy? I strongly dislike criticizing ANY student-athletes on a public forum to the level of saying they'll never be good, in particular one for whom I root. I feel like when people do, and then are sensitive about the blowback you get, that it reflects poorly on that person. Clearly, there are degrees (this is nowhere near as bad as the person on the Minny thread who insisted on his right to be grossly critical of McGraw in a reply to her *mother* and was angry about the blowback) but I'd like to see us all be measured and considerate in our criticisms of not only Badgers but all student-athletes. You can disagree with me, but it's my opinion and I said nothing unkind. I would truly love to know the reasons you all disagree if not simply because you want it to be true. I have an opinion based on having trained at high levels and having coached at high levels. Prefer I simply say she's great and will improve to be better than any libero we've ever had? 🙄 In fact, this is what I said...if you think I'm committing an imagined crime by saying she won't be Fleck based on my former experience, you're something else I'll refrain from spelling out. "I have confidence saying she will never be Zoe Fleck or Scott. Sorry. I believe passing is not a skill easily learned. If it was, you'd see a lot more 6 rotation outsides. Passing is likely the hardest skill to master and requires so much hand-eye I just don't see it happening. Long line of players who have tried...and failed in mastering passing. Hope she proves me wrong." My only issue with what you said is that you implied GG is lacking in skill being the reason she could never bee Fleck level. I don't see GG lacking in the talent/technique area at all (as someone who played the position at a high level and has experience coaching as well). Where she clearly lacks thus far has been on the mental side, specifically she struggles when she loses confidence. We can debate on whether its harder to improve mental toughness vs technique, but I think its very possible that GG having to overcome moving to a new country and adjusting to a different style of volleyball in international vs college may have affected her mentally that just another year at Wisconsin could really help. In summary, if GG had the mental toughness of Barnes, she would be better than Zoe Fleck and I stand by that, because her talent level is the highest I've ever seen out a Badger libero. |
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Post by SportyBucky on Dec 20, 2022 9:02:42 GMT -5
The facts are simple. Some passers have improved markedly year on year at UW. GG has had some good passing matches this year. It’s not that hard to see her getting better at it. Doesn’t mean she will, but it’s just wacky to just assume she won’t. very wacky so wacky. As if it's based on simply conjecture. |
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Post by badgerguru on Dec 20, 2022 12:50:36 GMT -5
so wacky. As if it's based on simply conjecture. Thats the message you choose to respond to? Alright Mr. Wacky |
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Post by SportyBucky on Dec 20, 2022 13:28:38 GMT -5
so wacky. As if it's based on simply conjecture. Thats the message you choose to respond to? Alright Mr. Wacky Because there's no point in engaging a few who choose to believe they know anything about passer technique and training. Proof is and will be in the numbers, and until then there's no point. I've got much better things to do. |
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Post by badgerguru on Dec 20, 2022 14:52:53 GMT -5
Thats the message you choose to respond to? Alright Mr. Wacky Because there's no point in engaging a few who choose to believe they know anything about passer technique and training. Proof is and will be in the numbers, and until then there's no point. I've got much better things to do. I forgot you’re the only person in the forum that knows anything. My bad, please forgive me 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 |
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Post by Wiswell on Dec 20, 2022 19:39:07 GMT -5
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Post by badgerbreath on Dec 20, 2022 19:55:14 GMT -5
Some decent middles in the portal - Jess Robinson, McGhee, Robie. With Demps gone, maybe Robinson and Smrek stay out right and it makes sense to pick one up to make sure the Hart space is filled. Wrobel competes for the other outside spot. Otherwise Wrobel will have to move left and there won't be any backup at the pins.
The argument for this approach is that the setters only have to adjust to one change, instead of several. They can focus on developing connections further and expanding offensive options.
(Also, I hope Demps actually stays in the end - I know it's a long shot because she will get offers, but I like that kid).
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Post by BadgerAce42 on Dec 20, 2022 20:26:43 GMT -5
Some decent middles in the portal - Jess Robinson, McGhee, Robie. With Demps gone, maybe Robinson and Smrek stay out right and it makes sense to pick one up to make sure the Hart space is filled. Wrobel competes for the other outside spot. Otherwise Wrobel will have to move left and there won't be any backup at the pins. The argument for this approach is that the setters only have to adjust to one change, instead of several. They can focus on developing connections further and expanding offensive options. (Also, I hope Demps actually stays in the end - I know it's a long shot because she will get offers, but I like that kid). I would love if Demps ends up staying! |
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Post by pull3 on Dec 21, 2022 7:02:49 GMT -5
Last year on Dec 21 we got our first Bingo with Crawford. Just saying.
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