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Post by knapplc on Jan 21, 2023 22:31:34 GMT -5
I'm also hoping for skittle pooping unicorns This may be my favorite R.A.T. -3 quote ever
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 21, 2023 23:15:56 GMT -5
Agree 100% with the OP and I think you will see a a good number of players on several teams actually speak to and take action regarding these very issues. so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2023 0:24:21 GMT -5
Agree 100% with the OP and I think you will see a a good number of players on several teams actually speak to and take action regarding these very issues. so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? There's a difference between a high crime rate (which actually only exists in specific neighborhoods rather than the city writ large) and what is being done with education in Florida. During the Civil Rights Movement, Florida had some of the worst atrocities conducted throughout the south whether it was discharging cans of pepper spray at less than a foot into women's eyes, putting acid in pools occupied by white and black swimmers, or putting 300 bullets into a handcuffed prisoner and then acquitting the sheriff "because we couldn't tell which, if any, bullet was his." This doesn't mean I think a Final Four should be moved, but that's a reasonable reason to agitate for it. A better solution would be to hold it in Tampa and print a ton of civil rights information to hand out, make it known with every AVCA and NCAA post, that these things are what education is about and that no amount of whitewashing by a governor will change history.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 22, 2023 0:29:01 GMT -5
Agree 100% with the OP and I think you will see a a good number of players on several teams actually speak to and take action regarding these very issues. so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? Yeah, I suppose. It's a free country. Nobody is forced to go to Tampa. Nobody is forced to go to Chicago. Nobody is forced to go to Long Beach. (Crimes per 1,000 people in Chicago: 24/year; crimes per 1,000 people in Long Beach: 35/year)
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Post by bigjohn043 on Jan 22, 2023 9:14:59 GMT -5
so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? There's a difference between a high crime rate (which actually only exists in specific neighborhoods rather than the city writ large) and what is being done with education in Florida. During the Civil Rights Movement, Florida had some of the worst atrocities conducted throughout the south whether it was discharging cans of pepper spray at less than a foot into women's eyes, putting acid in pools occupied by white and black swimmers, or putting 300 bullets into a handcuffed prisoner and then acquitting the sheriff "because we couldn't tell which, if any, bullet was his." This doesn't mean I think a Final Four should be moved, but that's a reasonable reason to agitate for it. A better solution would be to hold it in Tampa and print a ton of civil rights information to hand out, make it known with every AVCA and NCAA post, that these things are what education is about and that no amount of whitewashing by a governor will change history. Let me give you another example. States like CA & NY allow third semester abortions even once the the fetus is fully viable outside the womb. While this is fairly rare, the mother decides to kill the fetus rather than doing a simple c-section procedure and allowing the fetus to live. These laws are deeply unpopular and poll much worse than the various FL laws people want a ban over: apnews.com/article/only-on-ap-us-supreme-court-abortion-religion-health-2c569aa7934233af8e00bef4520a8fa8So would it be OK to boycott those states? Are there going to be any states left to have events?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2023 9:20:05 GMT -5
Agree 100% with the OP and I think you will see a a good number of players on several teams actually speak to and take action regarding these very issues. so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? The crime in Chicago is a big concern but these are two ENTIRELY different issues and if the players want to bring attention to the murder rate in Chicago I see no problem with that either . The governor of Florida is stepping on the proverbial throats of segments of his states population. He and his idealogical crusade will not be taken lightly. You can also flip that comment of yours on its head and say should NCAA or volleyball players boycott locales that do not properly discipline its 'protect and serve' community. The link below ANOTHER black man killed.
The rejection of the AP African American studies class is BLATANTLY racist and proves that Desantis is way too MAGA to be taken seriously. To the volleyball forum masses yes this reply is political but the thread topic is so what does one expect for responses?
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 22, 2023 9:36:01 GMT -5
Agree 100% with the OP and I think you will see a a good number of players on several teams actually speak to and take action regarding these very issues. so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? That’s an absurd comparison.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 22, 2023 10:31:34 GMT -5
so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? Yeah, I suppose. It's a free country. Nobody is forced to go to Tampa. Nobody is forced to go to Chicago. Nobody is forced to go to Long Beach. (Crimes per 1,000 people in Chicago: 24/year; crimes per 1,000 people in Long Beach: 35/year) cool, so don't move the final four (the one in Tampa or the one for MVB in Long Beach). and I wouldn't hang out in South Chicago, nor do would I hang out around LB Blvd & PCH, albeit I've rode my bike thru there (PCH and LB Blvd) a few times.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 22, 2023 10:40:39 GMT -5
so if players want to boycott a final four in Chicago because they believe they have excessive crime, then that would be ok? The crime in Chicago is a big concern but these are two ENTIRELY different issues and if the players want to bring attention to the murder rate in Chicago I see no problem with that either . The governor of Florida is stepping on the proverbial throats of segments of his states population. He and his idealogical crusade will not be taken lightly. You can also flip that comment of yours on its head and say should NCAA or volleyball players boycott locales that do not properly discipline its 'protect and serve' community. The link below ANOTHER black man killed.
The rejection of the AP African American studies class is BLATANTLY racist and proves that Desantis is way too MAGA to be taken seriously. To the volleyball forum masses yes this reply is political but the thread topic is so what does one expect for responses?
well, to be a Devil's advocate......and I'm not from Florida....and have no issue with University studies that are focused on a single ethnicity. so why have more history/sociology that is different from HIgh School classes focused on History (not single race based), or Sociology (not single race based)..etc. Not saying that there might not be appropriate high school classes for such. Not saying African-American, Cuban-American (in Florida particularly), Hispanic-American (particularly in southwest), Asian-AMerican (particuarly on west coast) should not have significant conteent in high school education - just the question is in high school eduction, should there be single race focused subject courses? Just first examine the core instruction for high schools, then go from there. Personally, other than AP Calculus, AP English, AP PHysics, I'm not really a fan of the AP syndrom that has pervaded high schools, I don't personally see a necessity for AP xxyyzz above those 3, but that's my opinion 1) It's not a current program, it's a proposed PILOT program. You omitted that context. 2) you reference some crappy paremedics who applied inappropriate treatment of a black man, that resutled in their death. Why is that one horrific incident even relevant? It's the subject more appropriately of paramedic training in specific locations, that might have correlation in inadequate care and potential in THOSE locations (the one you referred) . Using one death from two parademics in Springfield Illinois as some need for AP classes in Florida is absurb. So how are those AP AA classis in Illinois preventing PAWP (Poor Ass White Paramedics) from making a potential rascist related death in Illinois is a better question. 3) The GOvenor stated it lacks educational value. Before simply dismissing that claim by the GOvernor, can you point to the education value of an AP AA course vs. not having an AP AA course in High School? 4) Florida is 26.5% Hispanic vs. 15% black. Are there AP Hispanic-AMerican classes in existence? Cuban-AMerican AP classes? If so, there might be an argument for racial bias. If not, would it not be inherently rascist to first introduce AP AA course as opposed to AP Hispanic-American or Cuban-American courses? 5) what is wrong with evaluating, or re-evaluating the 'bang for the buck' on funding of diversity programs (or in this case the value of AP AA course, as I'm presuming they are being proposed for some higher level educational purpose). As an example, a University has implemented an entire Diversity/Inclusion staff, requiring funding of $1.5 mil a year. That $1.5 mil a year could fund 6 full tenured professors that won't be funded because of the diversion of funds. Not saying Diversity isn't great, not saying Diversity training shouldn't occur (they should, but you don't need $1.5 mil a year staff for that), just saying you don't have to have an office of Diversity to accomplish that. Diversity awareness has PROGRESSED markedly in the US in the last 50 years, it's not like it doesn't exist. Prior to establishing a Diversity office, etc. Diversity training was in place. My point is there is an element of the 'cottage industry' syndrome in regards to Diversity that is occuring in Universities and is largely driven by being politically correct and/or academic group-think vs. really thinking thru the actual value (and cost to other academic programs) of such 'cottage industry'. THere is a COST for trying to institutionalize 'Diversity' or in this case institutiionalize AP AA classes in Florida. just devil's advocate questions. it is a valid question as to whether there is a compelling reason to add AP AA classis, in high school. just pre-supposing they should exist because 'we can' isn't a valid reason. Education in STEM, English, and foreign language frankly is where I would focus high school education, but that's just me.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 22, 2023 13:24:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I suppose. It's a free country. Nobody is forced to go to Tampa. Nobody is forced to go to Chicago. Nobody is forced to go to Long Beach. (Crimes per 1,000 people in Chicago: 24/year; crimes per 1,000 people in Long Beach: 35/year) cool, so don't move the final four (the one in Tampa or the one for MVB in Long Beach). and I wouldn't hang out in South Chicago, nor do would I hang out around LB Blvd & PCH, albeit I've rode my bike thru there (PCH and LB Blvd) a few times. Huh? I agreed with you that it's fine to boycott Tampa or Chicago (or Long Beach) for any reason you want, and so you decided that means it is not OK to boycott them? I guess you weren't serious in your question (aka trolling). Apparently you were expecting people to say "No" to Chicago, so you could claim that they were being hypocritical about Tampa. Answering "Yes" to Chicago broke your script, but you decided to ignore that and just keep going anyway. The Final Four belongs to the NCAA, and they can locate it wherever they want for whatever reason they want*. I happen to strongly disagree with their current practice of locating about 4/5 of them in upper Midwest cities, but I don't dispute that they have the right to do that. (Players and/or teams can also boycott sites if they want to do that too, even if the NCAA locates the Final Four there. It would a tough choice to make, but it would certainly generate some attention.) * subject to civil rights laws, if the courts decide that the NCAA is operating as a public business rather than a private club
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 22, 2023 13:36:29 GMT -5
cool, so don't move the final four (the one in Tampa or the one for MVB in Long Beach). and I wouldn't hang out in South Chicago, nor do would I hang out around LB Blvd & PCH, albeit I've rode my bike thru there (PCH and LB Blvd) a few times. Huh? I agreed with you that it's fine to boycott Tampa or Chicago (or Long Beach) for any reason you want, and so you decided that means it is not OK to boycott them? I guess you weren't serious in your question (aka trolling). Apparently you were expecting people to say "No" to Chicago, so you could claim that they were being hypocritical about Tampa. Answering "Yes" to Chicago broke your script, but you decided to ignore that and just keep going anyway. The Final Four belongs to the NCAA, and they can locate it wherever they want for whatever reason they want. I happen to strongly disagree with their current practice of locating about 4/5 of them in upper Midwest cities, but I don't dispute that they have the right to do that. (Players and/or teams can also boycott sites if they want to do that too, even if the NCAA locates the Final Four there. It would be tough to do, but it would certainly generate some attention.) "so you decided it is not OK to boycott them?" nope, that's not what I decided "Apparently you were expecting people to say "No" to Chicago" nope, I didn't have expectations, I was curious, it's why I asked the question "I guess you weren't serious..." nope, I was serious 'answering "yes" to Chicago broke your script' wrong again, I never answered yes to any Chicago question. I did pose a Chicago question. not the same thing. no need to alter context
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Post by stanfordvb on Jan 22, 2023 13:38:45 GMT -5
so basically players should be advocating for whatever civil injustices are happening in the city their championship happens to be in AND depending on the city we should have ncaa or avca employees handing out flyers about civil rights at the ncaa volleyball championship...
you guys WHAT
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 22, 2023 13:50:08 GMT -5
so basically players should be advocating for whatever civil injustices are happening in the city their championship happens to be in AND depending on the city we should have ncaa or avca employees handing out flyers about civil rights at the ncaa volleyball championship... you guys WHAT lol, can't wait for some player to come out and advocate for STEM education and hand out STEM flyers, and ask to boycott and protest having championships in cities where STEM test scores are in the bottome quartile or can someone advocate no more championships in California until the State eliminates homelessness. How dare the NCAA have a championship in the state with the most homelessness
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 22, 2023 13:56:49 GMT -5
You know, it's not like anybody is arguing that homelessness or crime or low values of STEM education are good things that should be promoted. But Florida *is* arguing (and passing laws about it) that educators factually discussing sexuality and history are forbidden.
Your attempts to create strawman counter-examples are not working very well, because you fail to understand the whole issue here. This is not because people don't like Florida or their political orientation. This is because the state censoring (whitewashing, even) education is a bad thing that they are deliberately choosing to do.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Jan 22, 2023 14:31:40 GMT -5
You know, it's not like anybody is arguing that homelessness or crime or low values of STEM education are good things that should be promoted. But Florida *is* arguing (and passing laws about it) that educators factually discussing sexuality and history are forbidden. Your attempts to create strawman counter-examples are not working very well, because you fail to understand the whole issue here. This is not because people don't like Florida or their political orientation. This is because the state censoring (whitewashing, even) education is a bad thing that they are deliberately choosing to do. actually I do understand the issue. You continually come on here and try to say I don't understand this or that. I don't come on here and say what you do and don't understand, probably some exception lol can I suggest something, make a response without using the word you. it's really a derogatory form on communications, and that's my opinion of your prose. like trying to come off superior, so whatever. Can I just say Mike you are so much smarter than me because a high percentage of your responses state what I do and do not understand, as if I don't even undertand, lol, but whatever. Let me stipulate for all time that you are smarter, more intelligent, and more righteous than I. states censure a lot of things, and for valid reasons. the subject of the thread is a 'don't say gay' (itself a title made to promote a certain context) and it's AP AA classes. The GOvenor isn't whitewashing anything IMO, there's no indication sexuality and AA history and sociology can never be discussed in schools, particularly in later grades. It's debatable the degree to which or even if AP AA should be taught in high schools anyway. a law that bars or restricts discussion from K to grade 3 of sexuality..... is that really something that can't be debated? and it's unreasonable to bar instructions/discussion of that until beginning in the 4th grade? really?? isn't it a valid question that sexuality even needs to be talked about in a school setting before age 9? in any case I guess others can promote all the boycotts they want (like on VT) and can also try to use peer pressure to put fellow athletes in a position to support their beliefs on whatever point is the thread was centered on boycotting Florida. lol, this is the stuff that discourages people from providing opinions, but that's my opinion.
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