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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 21, 2023 11:02:17 GMT -5
I personally think they overexpanded the tournament with 12 teams, far too many at-larges with the last 3 or so that really don't even deserve to be in if we're honest about it, and plus make the regular season and conference tournaments less meaningful overall. 8 teams, with 3 at-larges I think is best, 10 teams ok, but 7 at-larges with teh last 2-3 teams or so really spotty records is overkill, but that's IMO, most people seem enthralled with the 'big tent' theory. like this year, the BWCT wouldn't even matter lol, the top 3 teams would be in already and the only question would be if UCSB could make some miraclous run. the BWCT would simply be playing for pride. & yeah this year it's still a very low potential for Hawaii or Beach to not even get in, which especially for Hawaii would seem incomprehensible and even discussing that possibilty would make their heads explode. Yeah I totally hear you and agree that 12 teams might be a bit too big but I am perfectly okay with that. I think at this point in time and given the quality of teams there are, 10 would be perfect. But it is probably better that way (with 12) so that they don't have to keep expanding it soon again in the near future. I wonder what the 12 team tournament format would be like. The top 4 teams get a bye in the first round? So there will be 4 matches first round, another 4 in the second round, then the semi and final? my guess is one of two formats used first week, with 3 teams playing at each of one of the top 4 seed sites wiht the top 4 seeds having a bye, where they consider geography like womens volleyball. leading to a final four the next week the other is 4 play-in matches at the 5-8 seeds vs. 9-12 seeds, and then the NCAA will be an elite 8 tournament. either one I think is ok. My suspicion is a final 4 will be the how they structure it. if it were this year I think would end up to be something like the following #1 UCLA hosting & playing winner of #8 Irvine & Pepperdine/Princeton/Stanford #2 Hawaii hosting winner of #7 BYU & Loyola #3 Penn State hosting winner of #6 Ball State & North Greenville #4 Beach hosting and playing winner of #5 GCU & Ohio State |
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Post by gtrich on Apr 21, 2023 11:19:19 GMT -5
Doesn't the SIAC and NEC come in next year? If so, it's only 5 at large bids. I'm not sure if the IVA will ever get an auto-bid, but that would bring the number down to 4 at that point.
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Post by MonroeClark90 on Apr 21, 2023 11:19:31 GMT -5
Agree 100% from the volleyball purist standpoint with smaller field. But if the goal is growth of the game, you need to go with the big tent. Outside of volleyball circles, schools like Irvine, lewis, GCU, and even Long Beach aren't going to draw many eyes. You need recognizable brands like OSU and USC to be there to grab the casual sports fan. Schools' fanbases will follow a winner regardless of sport. Look at Iowa Women's basketball. That campus was up for grabs for that team and it's not because it's loaded with WBB aficionados. It's a rally around the flag mentality. If an OSU/PSU team is consistently competing for Championships, you get more games on Big10 and not just streaming on Big10+. Bigger broadcast means more revenue. More revenue might make other schools think twice. Look no further than Big10 wrestling which is a sport that I'd say is a decent comp for volleyball as far as national following and Title IX challenges.
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Post by lankykong on Apr 21, 2023 11:30:29 GMT -5
Agree 100% from the volleyball purist standpoint with smaller field. But if the goal is growth of the game, you need to go with the big tent. Outside of volleyball circles, schools like Irvine, lewis, GCU, and even Long Beach aren't going to draw many eyes. You need recognizable brands like OSU and USC to be there to grab the casual sports fan. Schools' fanbases will follow a winner regardless of sport. Look at Iowa Women's basketball. That campus was up for grabs for that team and it's not because it's loaded with WBB aficionados. It's a rally around the flag mentality. If an OSU/PSU team is consistently competing for Championships, you get more games on Big10 and not just streaming on Big10+. Bigger broadcast means more revenue. More revenue might make other schools think twice. Look no further than Big10 wrestling which is a sport that I'd say is a decent comp for volleyball as far as national following and Title IX challenges. As someone who loves the game I get it, but that fkin sucks |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 21, 2023 11:30:53 GMT -5
Agree 100% from the volleyball purist standpoint with smaller field. But if the goal is growth of the game, you need to go with the big tent. Outside of volleyball circles, schools like Irvine, lewis, GCU, and even Long Beach aren't going to draw many eyes. You need recognizable brands like OSU and USC to be there to grab the casual sports fan. Schools' fanbases will follow a winner regardless of sport. Look at Iowa Women's basketball. That campus was up for grabs for that team and it's not because it's loaded with WBB aficionados. It's a rally around the flag mentality. If an OSU/PSU team is consistently competing for Championships, you get more games on Big10 and not just streaming on Big10+. Bigger broadcast means more revenue. More revenue might make other schools think twice. Look no further than Big10 wrestling which is a sport that I'd say is a decent comp for volleyball as far as national following and Title IX challenges. I agree there is a balance, certainly if two more auto-bids are added, then 12 isn't as bad a number. I still think 10 would be better, however the idea expand now so that things are set for a decade. in terms of 'eyes', have to say the MPSF & EIVA so far to me are really dissapointing PSU is BCS juggernaut, Big 10, all that, and they drew about 700 fans to their matches yesterday. frankly, that sucks Ohio State drew about the same for their semi-final Standord drew 700 fans. cmon, these are the so-called big boys and for the so-called recognizable 'brands' and playing on their home courts no less with berths on the line, frankly it's down right sad in my opinion however that paltry number came to being. I know Ball State & Beach are not as recognizable - howeever, Ball State would not surprise to draw 2000 for their finals and aside from BYU/Hawaii/UCLA, the next two schools that support matches the most. Of course, I guess what else does one do in Muncie I'm sure PSU, Stanford will have more attendance as well for the finals, but sheesh, to me last nights numbers were embarrassing for the sport and it's big name brand universities I'm guessing the Big West tonight will have 2000 or so, we'll see, as Hawaii, Beach, & Irvine will draw contingents, |
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Post by raian13 on Apr 21, 2023 12:46:09 GMT -5
Hawaii scheduled very well. They beat Stanford twice and now Stanford is in the MPSF championship match. They didn’t schedule BYU and GCU.
Then BSU is in the MIVA championship match as well.
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Post by BigDigEnergy on Apr 21, 2023 12:47:16 GMT -5
Yeah I totally hear you and agree that 12 teams might be a bit too big but I am perfectly okay with that. I think at this point in time and given the quality of teams there are, 10 would be perfect. But it is probably better that way (with 12) so that they don't have to keep expanding it soon again in the near future. I wonder what the 12 team tournament format would be like. The top 4 teams get a bye in the first round? So there will be 4 matches first round, another 4 in the second round, then the semi and final? if it were this year I think would end up to be something like the following #1 UCLA hosting & playing winner of #8 Irvine & Pepperdine/Princeton/Stanford #2 Hawaii hosting winner of #7 BYU & Loyola #3 Penn State hosting winner of #6 Ball State & North Greenville #4 Beach hosting and playing winner of #5 GCU & Ohio State Honestly this is a great group of teams there. All of them (some more than the others) deserve a spot to play in the tournament. I wish we get to see it this year. |
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Post by ManapuaSurprise on Apr 21, 2023 13:29:11 GMT -5
Hawaii scheduled very well. They beat Stanford twice and now Stanford is in the MPSF championship match. They didn’t schedule BYU and GCU. Then BSU is in the MIVA championship match as well. UH havent played BYU since 2020 so I can see them having a home-away series for 2024 & 2025 like they did with Ball State. I dont think theyll schedule BSU next year but can see BSU getting an Outrigger Tournament invite |
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Post by MonroeClark90 on Apr 21, 2023 14:18:32 GMT -5
Yep. I'm guessing Donan is gonna do what he can to get over to the islands at least every other year. As well he should. He's a great young coach with deep ties to the islands. He seems like a great ambassador for the game, and albeit a small sample size, for 2 seasons now he has his guys playing well at the right time. They've become an easy team to root for. Those kinds of teams and coaches are the ones that NCAA Mens VB should be trying to highlight.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 21, 2023 15:52:06 GMT -5
Hawaii scheduled very well. They beat Stanford twice and now Stanford is in the MPSF championship match. They didn’t schedule BYU and GCU. Then BSU is in the MIVA championship match as well. +Hawai'i played both SFU and LIU which are playing in the NEC championship. And they played Belmont Abbey which is in the CC semifinal with NGU. Not powerhouse teams but they can't all be. Good for RPI though, and helpful to the resume when weaker teams on the schedule are playing well and in the championship hunt at the end of the season. |
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Post by raian13 on Apr 21, 2023 16:22:50 GMT -5
Hawaii scheduled very well. They beat Stanford twice and now Stanford is in the MPSF championship match. They didn’t schedule BYU and GCU. Then BSU is in the MIVA championship match as well. +Hawai'i played both SFU and LIU which are playing in the NEC championship. And they played Belmont Abbey which is in the CC semifinal with NGU. Not powerhouse teams but they can't all be. Good for RPI though, and helpful to the resume when weaker teams on the schedule are playing well and in the championship hunt at the end of the season. They all share a commonality that helped them get to where they’re at 😉. It’s all win-win to everyone involved. |
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Post by soljah808 on Apr 21, 2023 17:04:21 GMT -5
8 of 13 of Hawaii's non conference scheduled teams are playing or have played in their conference tournament championship. Sounds like a great schedule to me in terms of RPI! Great job Charlie and Co for scheduling.
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Post by vinnielopes on Apr 22, 2023 2:48:24 GMT -5
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Post by gobruins on Apr 22, 2023 5:15:52 GMT -5
I think GCU is the team that would get last team in, barring an upset. BYU really needed to beat Stanford. With GCU beating Pepperdine, GCU added a decent neutral win, plus gets a much better RPI boost playing Pepp & UCLA, than BYU did playing CUI & Stanford, plus BYU won't get RPI boost from playing UCLA. while absolute RPI isn't everything, for BYU it was critical, given GCU's metrics. BYU's best case is the road wins over Ball State & Irvine (top 10 RPI teams) something GCU doens't have, unless Stanford jumps into the top 10 as well for a couple more. Beating Stanford on a road game, which GCU couldn't do, was critical for BYU. BYU really needed to beat Stanford. I think the committee is left to where they can't justify putting BYU in over GCU, especially if as I expect GCU jumps BYU in RPI, which is likely. Even if not, GCU I think still would get the nod. at this point it's whether there are any upsets and how many. Stanford has home court advantage, so you never know, still hard to see, but possible. Bigger thing is Penn State lost their AA middle blocker, so they have to overcome that and probably rely on pins more to beat Princeton, who is decent enough to have a shot at PSU. Plus IRvine has home court advantage, but likely has to beat Beach & Hawaii in successive days. barring upsets the main thing left will likely be the #2 seed, which again should be the BWCT winner if it's Hawaii or Beach. but who knows which categories the commmittee will value. Beach if they make the finals would get the biggest Opp W-L RPI boost of all the teams. Also don't know if they'll send all teams to the touranment again, or have the prelim round played at the #6 seed site They announced months ago, that the entire tournament, including the preliminary rounds, will be at George Mason. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 22, 2023 9:17:05 GMT -5
for Hawaii, it actually would have been better for them if Long Beach had won Hawaii had, and I still think is possible, to get teh #2 seed by beating Irvine (a much needed away win). Just the RPI, SOS, and quality win boost they could get from beating Beach IMO would have put them in the #2 seed. Playing UCSB is an RPI nightmare, a good team who it who just kills your RPI. assuming all the favorites win, the closest decision will be the #2 seed between Hawaii & Penn St. If Penn State loses, and Beach is in, teh #3 seed will become the really difficult decision for the committee now if Princeton, Stanford, and Irvine win, then yuk, historical yuk....., here's the unthinkable/unfathomable, a NCAA tournament nobody but Stanford, PRinceton, & Irvine & the MIVA want: #1: UCLA #2: Penn State or Hawaii (and hate mail is all over the place on this decision, because a lot of metrics are gonna favor Penn State) #3: Irvine #4: Ball State or Ohio State #5: Stanford #6: PRinceton #7: NOrth Greenville or KIng heck, in that case. GCU, Hawaii, Beach, and BYU could get together and hold a tournament in Vegas and it would be a better tournament than the NCAAs:) my god, if history repeats itself and Prineton does the unthinkable and then gets ousted again. |
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