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Post by guest2 on Apr 12, 2023 14:52:04 GMT -5
Ok Eeyore, are you offering any suggestions or just bagging on everyone else's? Buddy, I have offered plenty of suggestions over the years and still participate in what would improve the product. I am just pointing out why a permanent facility is just another money loser for the AVP. - The Q should come back and it should be an afternoon thing if you want people who want to come watch their friends play before they lose and possibly get new eyeballs on the actual good Q players that are up and coming instead of hoping for a facebook stream that someone makes public from a private account. - Night matches, people are working, not everyone can have matches up on their screen or pay attention in real time during mornings or afternoons. . I touched on this in mine, but its so important. There is simply no reason to hold matches when fans mostly can't attend/watch. Doing so is stupid. Its idiotic when the FVIB starts them on Wednesday, but the AVP starting on Friday mornings is almost as bad. As for the permanent facility, I am not as sold as some others, but if it was near a beach hotbed, there was some sort of co-sponsoring with USAV to make it a coaching/workout etc. locus, if it offered the players opportunities to make money as coaches themselves, etc. etc. etc. some version of it could contribute to the tour's long term success. Agree 100% that a liquor license and probably an attached restaurant/bar etc. would really enhance the idea and possibly make it feasible similar to how so many facilities over the years have worked. It could also be permanently wired/built for high-level streaming, host college duals, etc. One of the biggest issues I see though is for this idea to really have success, it probably need to be in SoCal and how would you avoid the focus on this location getting the sport even farther from its real beach roots? Achievable probably, but would need to be figured out. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 12, 2023 15:16:10 GMT -5
Ok Eeyore, are you offering any suggestions or just bagging on everyone else's? Buddy, I have offered plenty of suggestions over the years and still participate in what would improve the product. I am just pointing out why a permanent facility is just another money loser for the AVP. - The Q should come back and it should be an afternoon thing if you want people who want to come watch their friends play before they lose and possibly get new eyeballs on the actual good Q players that are up and coming instead of hoping for a facebook stream that someone makes public from a private account. - Night matches, people are working, not everyone can have matches up on their screen or pay attention in real time during mornings or afternoons. I very much enjoyed watching the KOC that Friday night while having a beer with the TV on in the garage. - STREAM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE - the Sponsor is a big must, and if you want to go the route of paying out more to entice the better players to play more often, or attract other sports fringe athletes that have a volleyball background, find a sponsor that is solely dedicated to the payouts. "These winners receiving a giant check was made possible by so and so" There are plenty of more things I have said over the years, but these are just a quick few that correlate to what others have already said here. EDIT: Also, not sure how the Eeyore comment makes sense considering the guy suffers from clinical depression and I actively participate in conversation including positives that are happening within the sport. Seems like you were just salty your idea where dozens of people could play cornhole with the AVP making thousands a year was pointed out how it would be an almost instant failure. sorry, work got in the way. Ok coach, Think of Indoors Nationals, you break it up over about 4 weeks during the summer, Add in a couple AVPs and maybe an FIVB. Host a couple in season college tournaments, maybe a conf. final or even the NCAA Championship. Player camps National teams (JRs-seniors) coaching clinics you can bring in foreign countries to train, like most already come in. F&B is a must. Programs can be designed to adjust to use. so much more I have, I've gone through numbers. you have operating costs and you have development costs. Partnering with USAVBeach, opens you to more resources and fundraising possibilities where the DEV overhead doesn't roll into the operating costs. What money is going for the Chula Vista site? Like Winbabywin suggested, you can partner with some regional existing places and maybe improve them over the long haul. This isn't a next year fix, but you could have it in place before we host the Olympics in 2028 or piggy back off of it. The FL region's site is a great example, except it would be better to be closer to Orlando or Tampa where you can get the hotels. would it be easy? no. But it could done. With the success of the women's college game, this sport is ripe for someone to take a big leap like this. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 12, 2023 15:24:24 GMT -5
Come on moderndaycoach! Roast em!! Tell em how stupid this idea is!! Put em in their places you genius of all geniuses.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 12, 2023 15:33:31 GMT -5
Come on moderndaycoach! Roast em!! Tell em how stupid this idea is!! Put em in their places you genius of all geniuses. Please tell me where I said it was stupid, I would rather just roast you for getting in your feelings and being soft about what I actually said in that it is not practical and a money loser. Clown. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 12, 2023 15:42:57 GMT -5
Buddy, I have offered plenty of suggestions over the years and still participate in what would improve the product. I am just pointing out why a permanent facility is just another money loser for the AVP. - The Q should come back and it should be an afternoon thing if you want people who want to come watch their friends play before they lose and possibly get new eyeballs on the actual good Q players that are up and coming instead of hoping for a facebook stream that someone makes public from a private account. - Night matches, people are working, not everyone can have matches up on their screen or pay attention in real time during mornings or afternoons. I very much enjoyed watching the KOC that Friday night while having a beer with the TV on in the garage. - STREAM AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE - the Sponsor is a big must, and if you want to go the route of paying out more to entice the better players to play more often, or attract other sports fringe athletes that have a volleyball background, find a sponsor that is solely dedicated to the payouts. "These winners receiving a giant check was made possible by so and so" There are plenty of more things I have said over the years, but these are just a quick few that correlate to what others have already said here. EDIT: Also, not sure how the Eeyore comment makes sense considering the guy suffers from clinical depression and I actively participate in conversation including positives that are happening within the sport. Seems like you were just salty your idea where dozens of people could play cornhole with the AVP making thousands a year was pointed out how it would be an almost instant failure. sorry, work got in the way. Ok coach, Think of Indoors Nationals, you break it up over about 4 weeks during the summer, Add in a couple AVPs and maybe an FIVB. Host a couple in season college tournaments, maybe a conf. final or even the NCAA Championship. Player camps National teams (JRs-seniors) coaching clinics you can bring in foreign countries to train, like most already come in. F&B is a must. Programs can be designed to adjust to use. so much more I have, I've gone through numbers. you have operating costs and you have development costs. Partnering with USAVBeach, opens you to more resources and fundraising possibilities where the DEV overhead doesn't roll into the operating costs. What money is going for the Chula Vista site? Like Winbabywin suggested, you can partner with some regional existing places and maybe improve them over the long haul. This isn't a next year fix, but you could have it in place before we host the Olympics in 2028 or piggy back off of it. The FL region's site is a great example, except it would be better to be closer to Orlando or Tampa where you can get the hotels. would it be easy? no. But it could done. With the success of the women's college game, this sport is ripe for someone to take a big leap like this. But this is exactly the problem, if you would want it done this way it would have be a majority ownership by the AVP to operate in this manner, or they would need to seek out an organization that is failing already and convince them this is their only shot to stay alive when in reality it would just be a band aid. There is no program with a facility in their right mind that is going to want to give up control of how they run their leagues, club, etc. and willingly give up court time AND share revenue when they really wouldn't be getting much out of it. If they are successful already, why would they want to take away court space from the current members they have if it is a club, or take away from the money they would be making from leagues if they are a restaurant/bar. This is my same argument when the glorified indoor open gym leagues like NVA and PVL have been trying to sell that if a juniors club partners with them, they will grow and make more money because people want to see guys/girls that can barley make a living over seas take up court space in their facility and then force them to coach a team they really have no interest in or will bail on the second another pro offer comes around. It is a great idea in premise, but not in logic. At the end of the day it might have some short term success, but in the long run it will do nothing but diminish the already existing product (or what is left of it) of whoever they partner with, and provide false hope for the next person they try to convince. Juniors clubs are focused on how they can make money and keep as much of it as possible, bars that run leagues are focused on how many teams they can sign up relative to the prize they market and hope that one of their vendors gives some stuff to give away. No one is going to want to share revenue with another organization that is already losing money. |
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Post by lessismore on Apr 12, 2023 15:47:38 GMT -5
For pro events, I would run a 2 day single elimination tournament with losers playing for placement purposes. For example, all 1st round losers get dropped into a bracket and duke it out for the 9th-16th (for a 16 team main draw) seeding points. Highest seed plays lowest seed. Winners play winners and losers play losers. 2nd round losers duke it out for the 5th-8th seed. Semi final losers play for 3rd and 4th. This would be 32 matches per gender (only 3 more than a double elim) with each team playing a total of 4 matches no matter what. Why? True seeding and maximum team movement. Interesting idea, has this been done anywhere? Is there a name for it or did you come up with it? My vote is still for double-elim for two reasons: 1) You are more likely to see top teams in the semis and finals. Some people want to see parity and chaos, which I like now and again too, but I usually want to watch the best teams square off at the end, not just the ones riding a hot streak or maybe a favorable draw. 2) It keeps all teams fully invested in their matches. I can see some top teams checking out of the tournament if they lose first or second round because they can no longer do better than 9th or 5th, which aren't meaningful points or money to them. 3) You further confuse or isolate the casual fan trying to follow along. This system would be unfamiliar to any other sports fan. How are you going to make them care about a final day match to decide 15th vs 16th? People likely only care who still has a shot to win it all. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 12, 2023 15:57:42 GMT -5
Modernman, take your sensitive-a$$ off some place. I could give a damn about your personal attacks, I'm not a baby.
How is it that there are these types of facilities ALL over this country, and they're still in business?
Ate you saying all these facilities are hemorrhaging money? How are these places still open?
Why can't the AVP operate one? Or at least partner with them?
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Post by guest2 on Apr 12, 2023 16:20:46 GMT -5
For pro events, I would run a 2 day single elimination tournament with losers playing for placement purposes. For example, all 1st round losers get dropped into a bracket and duke it out for the 9th-16th (for a 16 team main draw) seeding points. Highest seed plays lowest seed. Winners play winners and losers play losers. 2nd round losers duke it out for the 5th-8th seed. Semi final losers play for 3rd and 4th. This would be 32 matches per gender (only 3 more than a double elim) with each team playing a total of 4 matches no matter what. Why? True seeding and maximum team movement. Interesting idea, has this been done anywhere? Is there a name for it or did you come up with it? My vote is still for double-elim for two reasons: 1) You are more likely to see top teams in the semis and finals. Some people want to see parity and chaos, which I like now and again too, but I usually want to watch the best teams square off at the end, not just the ones riding a hot streak or maybe a favorable draw. 2) It keeps all teams fully invested in their matches. I can see some top teams checking out of the tournament if they lose first or second round because they can no longer do better than 9th or 5th, which aren't meaningful points or money to them. 3) You further confuse or isolate the casual fan trying to follow along. This system would be unfamiliar to any other sports fan. How are you going to make them care about a final day match to decide 15th vs 16th? People likely only care who still has a shot to win it all. 100% correct! |
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Post by sideou7 on Apr 12, 2023 23:16:33 GMT -5
For pro events, I would run a 2 day single elimination tournament with losers playing for placement purposes. For example, all 1st round losers get dropped into a bracket and duke it out for the 9th-16th (for a 16 team main draw) seeding points. Highest seed plays lowest seed. Winners play winners and losers play losers. 2nd round losers duke it out for the 5th-8th seed. Semi final losers play for 3rd and 4th. This would be 32 matches per gender (only 3 more than a double elim) with each team playing a total of 4 matches no matter what. Why? True seeding and maximum team movement. Interesting idea, has this been done anywhere? Is there a name for it or did you come up with it? My vote is still for double-elim for two reasons: 1) You are more likely to see top teams in the semis and finals. Some people want to see parity and chaos, which I like now and again too, but I usually want to watch the best teams square off at the end, not just the ones riding a hot streak or maybe a favorable draw. 2) It keeps all teams fully invested in their matches. I can see some top teams checking out of the tournament if they lose first or second round because they can no longer do better than 9th or 5th, which aren't meaningful points or money to them. 3) You further confuse or isolate the casual fan trying to follow along. This system would be unfamiliar to any other sports fan. How are you going to make them care about a final day match to decide 15th vs 16th? People likely only care who still has a shot to win it all. I just came up with it, but I'm sure it's been thought of before and there's probably a name for it too. I just don't know what it's called. 1- Completely agree. I think my format would allow for the same thing though, but the best teams would have to bring their A game off the rip because opponents will throw everything at them. There will be a sense of desperation from those lower seeded opponents because they know they can't climb back up in a single elim. If the best team is not fully prepared for the onslaught, then they're probably not the best team for that tournament. Sure, there can be off days but that's sport. Teams can get beat any given day. It is the "best team's" job to show why they are the best. The whole point of this format is to make it extremely difficult to win the tournament. You can't lose any matches and have to win 4 straight to win it all. That difficulty is what will make it highly entertaining. The level of play will heighten each round. Teams who are truly prepared and the most desperate will win. As fans, we'll just be happy to witness it all. 2- I think my format will keep teams invested too. That same desperation to not lose in a single elim will remain the same if they do lose because now those teams would have to fight to earn the most points they can. It could be to either improve their seeding or prevent them from falling too far down it. So, if you're a top team and you're "checked out" in your next 3 placement matches, it's just going to hurt your seeding. Not to mention, you're playing for the most prize money you can get as well. Every team will be jockeying for position. Imagine you're a 16th seed, you lose your first match and are out of the contention but can improve your seeding by beating teams you feel like you're on par with. You earn your way into playing top teams as close to the end of the tournament as possible. 3- Like you said, casual fans only care about who still has a shot to win it all. That's what the single elimination bracket for!  Can't get any simpler than following a single elim bracket. Placement matches are completely separate from it. The single elim matches will be the most featured (stadium court, all matches aired, saved for night matches in my 2 day format) for all fans. Placement matches would be for the invested fan. Maybe you're a fan of a team and are bummed that they're out of the tournament. Placement matches gives you an opportunity to watch them 4x. On top of that, against 4 different opponents. Would be great to bet on too! Think of filling out placement bracket challenges along with all the other stuff you can bet on. Did I sell you on it? |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 13, 2023 9:39:37 GMT -5
Modernman, take your sensitive-a$$ off some place. I could give a damn about your personal attacks, I'm not a baby. How is it that there are these types of facilities ALL over this country, and they're still in business? Ate you saying all these facilities are hemorrhaging money? How are these places still open? Why can't the AVP operate one? Or at least partner with them? The only one sensitive here was you. And you are certainly acting like a baby. Sure there are these types of facilities all over the country, and yes majority of them fail or find a new sucker to buy it before they find out how hard it is. Most of them lose money yes, some break even, and the good ones profit. But seeing as you are too worked up over someone disagreeing with your idea while providing all the reasons it wouldn't work, you failed to read why it would be foolish for clubs/bars to team up with the AVP and start sharing profits, giving up court space, and attempting to take on something that isn't necessary for them unless they are on the brink of failure or simply do not understand what they are getting themselves into. Again, if you would have taken the time to read my posts instead of immediately striking with a personal attack first like someone assaulted you, you would see that I highlighted this only works the way the AVP would want is if they are majority owners and higher someone to operate. And again, back to my original point, you suggestions prove you have never managed or operated a facility in the way you speak. |
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Post by uvcalumn on Apr 13, 2023 9:45:46 GMT -5
Modernman, take your sensitive-a$$ off some place. I could give a damn about your personal attacks, I'm not a baby. How is it that there are these types of facilities ALL over this country, and they're still in business? Ate you saying all these facilities are hemorrhaging money? How are these places still open? Why can't the AVP operate one? Or at least partner with them? The only one sensitive here was you. And you are certainly acting like a baby. Sure there are these types of facilities all over the country, and yes majority of them fail or find a new sucker to buy it before they find out how hard it is. Most of them lose money yes, some break even, and the good ones profit. But seeing as you are too worked up over someone disagreeing with your idea while providing all the reasons it wouldn't work, you failed to read why it would be foolish for clubs/bars to team up with the AVP and start sharing profits, giving up court space, and attempting to take on something that isn't necessary for them unless they are on the brink of failure or simply do not understand what they are getting themselves into. Again, if you would have taken the time to read my posts instead of immediately striking with a personal attack first like someone assaulted you, you would see that I highlighted this only works the way the AVP would want is if they are majority owners and higher someone to operate. And again, back to my original point, you suggestions prove you have never managed or operated a facility in the way you speak. whats stopping the AVP from opening their own? having a home base? around me there are 6 complexes with at least 4 courts within a 2 hour drive. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 13, 2023 10:14:23 GMT -5
The only one sensitive here was you. And you are certainly acting like a baby. Sure there are these types of facilities all over the country, and yes majority of them fail or find a new sucker to buy it before they find out how hard it is. Most of them lose money yes, some break even, and the good ones profit. But seeing as you are too worked up over someone disagreeing with your idea while providing all the reasons it wouldn't work, you failed to read why it would be foolish for clubs/bars to team up with the AVP and start sharing profits, giving up court space, and attempting to take on something that isn't necessary for them unless they are on the brink of failure or simply do not understand what they are getting themselves into. Again, if you would have taken the time to read my posts instead of immediately striking with a personal attack first like someone assaulted you, you would see that I highlighted this only works the way the AVP would want is if they are majority owners and higher someone to operate. And again, back to my original point, you suggestions prove you have never managed or operated a facility in the way you speak. whats stopping the AVP from opening their own? having a home base? around me there are 6 complexes with at least 4 courts within a 2 hour drive. The fact they can't even operate their main business efficiently and be profitable, could you even imagine if they put up the capital and had to manage the overhead to run a home base and handled it the same way they currently do the AVP? It definitely can be done, but as others pointed it out it wouldn't be easy. And like I was saying before it would have to be their own venture or scheme and beg to be partnered up with a club (who isn't going to want to share the gate/tourney profits, and give up court time), or a restaurant that desperately needs some sort of boost to keep them from going under. Honestly the best approach if the AVP wanted a home base is in fact to be the main owner and turn it into a juniors club and call it the AVP academy or something. That way it is their own players they have coaching/working and all the liability falls on the AVP when those guys/girls get bored or realize they absolutely hate coaching if you are going to market you have Professional players available on staff. Also restaurants fail in general, but none of this is successful without a legit kitchen and a liquor license. Plain and simple, no successful club or bar is going to agree to team up, and the AVP already is struggling to make money, the last thing they need is another faucet they can't turn off. |
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Post by blackmambabeto on Apr 13, 2023 10:17:49 GMT -5
The only one sensitive here was you. And you are certainly acting like a baby. Sure there are these types of facilities all over the country, and yes majority of them fail or find a new sucker to buy it before they find out how hard it is. Most of them lose money yes, some break even, and the good ones profit. But seeing as you are too worked up over someone disagreeing with your idea while providing all the reasons it wouldn't work, you failed to read why it would be foolish for clubs/bars to team up with the AVP and start sharing profits, giving up court space, and attempting to take on something that isn't necessary for them unless they are on the brink of failure or simply do not understand what they are getting themselves into. Again, if you would have taken the time to read my posts instead of immediately striking with a personal attack first like someone assaulted you, you would see that I highlighted this only works the way the AVP would want is if they are majority owners and higher someone to operate. And again, back to my original point, you suggestions prove you have never managed or operated a facility in the way you speak. whats stopping the AVP from opening their own? having a home base? around me there are 6 complexes with at least 4 courts within a 2 hour drive. random question, what area do you live with all those facilities? just curious, I live in Newport Beach, CA so I just play in the SoCal beaches but wonder how it is out elsewhere (especially BFE) |
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Post by lessismore on Apr 13, 2023 10:21:31 GMT -5
whats stopping the AVP from opening their own? having a home base? around me there are 6 complexes with at least 4 courts within a 2 hour drive. random question, what area do you live with all those facilities? just curious, I live in Newport Beach, CA so I just play in the SoCal beaches but wonder how it is out elsewhere (especially BFE) What’s BFE stand for? Bumf**k Egypt? |
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Post by never2x on Apr 13, 2023 10:24:27 GMT -5
If you've seen some of these volleyball facilities, there are dozens of people playing every single day and night...2's, 3's, 4's, cornhole, a concession stand, tournaments, leagues, etc. Obviously the operator needs to be able to make some money, but the AVP could make a percentage of all volleyball activities or even a percentage of everything. Not to mention the thousands of dollars the AVP would make by having an event there multiple times a year. I should clarify that this may not be the 1 golden goose answer to all the AVP's money problems, but it could definitely work to provide a revenue stream that they don't have right now. Like I said, anyone who suggests this has obviously never operated/managed a facility. It just isn't practical, the AVP would want way too big of a cut, and if they handle this in any way shape or form similar to how they run their current operations, it is nothing but a nothing losing venture. Not to mention absolutely none of that works at all without a liquor license and some sort of actual kitchen and not just a concession stand, or a ticketed entry to every single tourney/event they run which would lead to another fight over revenue share of the gate. Dozens of people there daily where the AVP makes thousands of dollars a year off it sounds like a pipe dream two college stoners came up with because they don't want to find real jobs. This might work, but IF it did it would only be for a very short amount of time. I doubt dozens of people daily would even come close to covering the operations overhead in the offseason. It’s funny that halfway through reading this post I can tell who the author was (without checking) just by the whiny bitchy tone of it |
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Can't get any simpler than following a single elim bracket. Placement matches are completely separate from it. The single elim matches will be the most featured (stadium court, all matches aired, saved for night matches in my 2 day format) for all fans. Placement matches would be for the invested fan. Maybe you're a fan of a team and are bummed that they're out of the tournament. Placement matches gives you an opportunity to watch them 4x. On top of that, against 4 different opponents. Would be great to bet on too! Think of filling out placement bracket challenges along with all the other stuff you can bet on.