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Post by racerjoe on Apr 13, 2023 15:52:08 GMT -5
The AVP's biggest issue is getting eyes and exposure on the product. Finding new people to expose the game to. This is as much a marketing problem as anything else.
Instead of a deal to put the AVP on ESPN plus, they should be spending money to get their highlights on ESPN. They should make deals with modern media too. Pay Jomboy to show highlights funny plays, or extraordinary moments on his youtube. Hell make a deal to get MR Beast to make a video coming to watch the AVP. Go back to putting its games on Youtube, so they are as easy as possible to view.
You make other tweaks to rules and tournament formats, but that is small in the larger picture. Get eyes on the games.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 13, 2023 15:52:54 GMT -5
Oh, for sure! There are many problems, and I would add logical scheduling to that list as well. This idea won't solve them all, but I think this new format can be really entertaining. I attached an image of how the bracket looks like because I feel like it's confusing you a little bit or maybe I just didn't explain it well enough. Each team will be playing the same number of matches but with different implications. I made this up with higher seeded teams winning their matches. Check it out. That's a neat illustration. You explained it well enough the first time and I got the jist, but this is super clear. I still have the same problems with it. My biggest problem is still that 16/32 (50%) of all games have no path or impact on the championship, so why play them? For better or worse, the idea of sport hinges on the concept of a determining an ultimate winner. None of the other major pro sports (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, PGA, ATP) play off for 3rd, let alone last. Yes, the AVP has a unique points system that awards a points scale to determine future seeding, but double elimination already defines a lot of places for you, and the scale flattens out after 5th anyway. Even if the athletes did care about the extra matches or the extra money, it's all about the fans, and I simply do not believe that casual fans would watch it. Hardcore fans like you and me might watch these out-of-contention matches, as well as the friends and families of the players, but we'll watch almost anything. The AVP need to optimize the experience for the average fan, and average fans care about the ultimate winner. Your system cuts the number of games relevant to that average fan in half, and that fan represents the large majority of your audience. Yes. Already way too much focus in this sport on not winning whatever a given event is. A format that featured half or more of the matches that could not conceivably impact the outcome of the event would be a disaster. (Note that now, almost every match is relevant to the outcome because even if some teams have zero chance to win, they might get a single upset which upends the brackets). Just a note on whether hardcore fans would watch, I almost never watch the bronze medal matches at FIVB events, even Elites, so I am definitely not watching two mid-table AVP teams play off for 7th unless its a unique matchup. Maybe thats just me, but I would be surprised if even many hardcore fans were willing to sit through too many of these placing matches |
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Post by lantern on Apr 13, 2023 16:07:14 GMT -5
The "Make or Break" Apple TV series about pro surfing was a huge hit, they are doing Formula 1 now, Beach Volleyball should be campaigning hard for the next season.
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Post by ajm on Apr 13, 2023 16:17:22 GMT -5
The "Make or Break" Apple TV series about pro surfing was a huge hit, they are doing Formula 1 now, Beach Volleyball should be campaigning hard for the next season. The AVP Uncovered series seemed to be trying to do that. I see Bucknam has been playing some FIVB this year, not sure if he's planning a new season of Uncovered. Then you have Buzzle Media, the McKibbins, and others also in that space. Maybe all these content creators should pool their resources together and come up with something compelling enough to put on one of the major streaming services. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 13, 2023 16:20:58 GMT -5
The "Make or Break" Apple TV series about pro surfing was a huge hit, they are doing Formula 1 now, Beach Volleyball should be campaigning hard for the next season. Haven't seen the Apple TV ones, but Drive to Survive on Netflix was awesome for someone who couldn't care less about car racing - but I loved the storylines and drama behind it to the point I would watch when on ESPN weekend mornings then wait for that episode to come out later. Full Swing as a golf fan was even better, it is such a great concept. For years now I have been recommending some sort of "reality" series. My initial idea for it came from when the Big Ten Network did the series where they followed around Haleigh Washington and other Penn State players. Stick these kids in a house, have them vlog their daily routine and how they prepare for tourneys. It wouldn't be as popular for Netflix or Apple Tv, but I am sure you could make some sort of youtube series out of it. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 13, 2023 16:22:18 GMT -5
The "Make or Break" Apple TV series about pro surfing was a huge hit, they are doing Formula 1 now, Beach Volleyball should be campaigning hard for the next season. The AVP Uncovered series seemed to be trying to do that. I see Bucknam has been playing some FIVB this year, not sure if he's planning a new season of Uncovered. Then you have Buzzle Media, the McKibbins, and others also in that space. Maybe all these content creators should pool their resources together and come up with something compelling enough to put on one of the major streaming services. The problem is the content game is a grind, unless someone wants to shell out some guaranteed money for them to work together, I don't see anyone willingly giving up sponsors or views if they are not equals in creating said content. |
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Post by lessismore on Apr 13, 2023 16:44:44 GMT -5
The "Make or Break" Apple TV series about pro surfing was a huge hit, they are doing Formula 1 now, Beach Volleyball should be campaigning hard for the next season. The AVP Uncovered series seemed to be trying to do that. I see Bucknam has been playing some FIVB this year, not sure if he's planning a new season of Uncovered. Then you have Buzzle Media, the McKibbins, and others also in that space. Maybe all these content creators should pool their resources together and come up with something compelling enough to put on one of the major streaming services. Pretty sure there's no plans for new seasons of Uncovered. I'm sure it took a ton of time and seems like his focus is on competing now. What have the McKibbins been working on? I only see one 6-minute video on their YouTube channel in the last 6 months. |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 13, 2023 16:53:22 GMT -5
The AVP Uncovered series seemed to be trying to do that. I see Bucknam has been playing some FIVB this year, not sure if he's planning a new season of Uncovered. Then you have Buzzle Media, the McKibbins, and others also in that space. Maybe all these content creators should pool their resources together and come up with something compelling enough to put on one of the major streaming services. Pretty sure there's no plans for new seasons of Uncovered. I'm sure it took a ton of time and seems like his focus is on competing now. What have the McKibbins been working on? I only see one 6-minute video on their YouTube channel in the last 6 months. WHat is AVP Uncovered? Link? |
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Post by lessismore on Apr 13, 2023 17:08:38 GMT -5
Pretty sure there's no plans for new seasons of Uncovered. I'm sure it took a ton of time and seems like his focus is on competing now. What have the McKibbins been working on? I only see one 6-minute video on their YouTube channel in the last 6 months. WHat is AVP Uncovered? Link? Here's the official website. Per the website: "This 5 episode sports driven original documentary series provides unprecedented access to what life is really like for elite athletes competing on the AVP professional beach volleyball tour. Fully produced by BYB this show stars Olympian Jake Gibb, and former NCAA All-Americans Zana Muno, Kristen Nuss, and Taryn Kloth." Also: "BYB Pictures is a full service video production company founded in 2016 and run by three lifelong best friends" (one of which is Mark) They released it last summer but the content is of the 2021 season. They got some great footage of TKN's breakout AVP win and some good BTS footage of Jake and Zana. I recommend. |
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Post by ajm on Apr 13, 2023 17:34:59 GMT -5
The AVP Uncovered series seemed to be trying to do that. I see Bucknam has been playing some FIVB this year, not sure if he's planning a new season of Uncovered. Then you have Buzzle Media, the McKibbins, and others also in that space. Maybe all these content creators should pool their resources together and come up with something compelling enough to put on one of the major streaming services. The problem is the content game is a grind, unless someone wants to shell out some guaranteed money for them to work together, I don't see anyone willingly giving up sponsors or views if they are not equals in creating said content. Probably true, but how does surfing and F1 and all these other niche sports do it but BVB can't? Who is shelling out the money for those series? I get that you have to invest money to make money. If only the AVP was owned by a multi-million dollar corporation, oh wait. |
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Post by ajm on Apr 13, 2023 17:37:02 GMT -5
WHat is AVP Uncovered? Link? Here's the official website. Per the website: "This 5 episode sports driven original documentary series provides unprecedented access to what life is really like for elite athletes competing on the AVP professional beach volleyball tour. Fully produced by BYB this show stars Olympian Jake Gibb, and former NCAA All-Americans Zana Muno, Kristen Nuss, and Taryn Kloth." Also: "BYB Pictures is a full service video production company founded in 2016 and run by three lifelong best friends" (one of which is Mark) They released it last summer but the content is of the 2021 season. They got some great footage of TKN's breakout AVP win and some good BTS footage of Jake and Zana. I recommend. I agree, AVP Uncovered was terrific. I do think they could have chosen more interesting subjects though. And the fact that there are BVB fans here who've never heard of it underscores how poorly it was promoted. |
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 13, 2023 17:59:10 GMT -5
The problem is the content game is a grind, unless someone wants to shell out some guaranteed money for them to work together, I don't see anyone willingly giving up sponsors or views if they are not equals in creating said content. Probably true, but how does surfing and F1 and all these other niche sports do it but BVB can't? Who is shelling out the money for those series? I get that you have to invest money to make money. If only the AVP was owned by a multi-million dollar corporation, oh wait. The simple difference in quality of sponsors, and how much they pay to sponsor, I would imagine is where we should start with that question. Shoot, even look at pickleball and the insurgence of money coming in from that. I don't think the AVP is anywhere near the stratosphere of attaining the level of sponsorship F1 has, and I would have to imagine surfing does way more than the AVP does as well, although not at big as F1. |
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Post by sideou7 on Apr 13, 2023 22:13:31 GMT -5
That's a neat illustration. You explained it well enough the first time and I got the jist, but this is super clear. I still have the same problems with it. My biggest problem is still that 16/32 (50%) of all games have no path or impact on the championship, so why play them? For better or worse, the idea of sport hinges on the concept of a determining an ultimate winner. None of the other major pro sports (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, PGA, ATP) play off for 3rd, let alone last. Yes, the AVP has a unique points system that awards a points scale to determine future seeding, but double elimination already defines a lot of places for you, and the scale flattens out after 5th anyway. Even if the athletes did care about the extra matches or the extra money, it's all about the fans, and I simply do not believe that casual fans would watch it. Hardcore fans like you and me might watch these out-of-contention matches, as well as the friends and families of the players, but we'll watch almost anything. The AVP need to optimize the experience for the average fan, and average fans care about the ultimate winner. Your system cuts the number of games relevant to that average fan in half, and that fan represents the large majority of your audience. Yes. Already way too much focus in this sport on not winning whatever a given event is. A format that featured half or more of the matches that could not conceivably impact the outcome of the event would be a disaster. (Note that now, almost every match is relevant to the outcome because even if some teams have zero chance to win, they might get a single upset which upends the brackets). Just a note on whether hardcore fans would watch, I almost never watch the bronze medal matches at FIVB events, even Elites, so I am definitely not watching two mid-table AVP teams play off for 7th unless its a unique matchup. Maybe thats just me, but I would be surprised if even many hardcore fans were willing to sit through too many of these placing matches hmmm. i guess what i'm trying to get at is if the AVP can improve the stakes in terms of the competition aspect then maybe it will garner more "hype" and in turn can attract/retain more fans. maybe even rope casual players themselves to follow the sport intently bc (hot take?) i feel like casual players are the worst fans. very few of them watch the sport. while i know there are more glaring issues with the AVP that should take priority over tournament format, i think solving/tweaking internal systems can help all of the external stuff. after all, putting the best product you can is the first thing that should attract a new fan. you can dress it up nicely with all the marketing, you can have the best fan engagement, but if a new fan does not come out of an event witnessing a memorable sport moment, you'll lose them. as an aside, this format could have a nice Darwin type of effect on our US men's team who i can't see cracking Top 10 this Olympic cycle. it will polish their mentality, skills and their methods when the only option is to win. no more cushion. if you do lose, your only option is to win STILL to give yourself a better shot next time. i swear i'm not on something hahaha  |
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Post by newenglander on Apr 17, 2023 8:51:46 GMT -5
Here's the annual, "why can't the AVP succeed" thread. What sport can we compare this to? Golf or tennis maybe? So where does the money come from?
Sponsors that peddle equipment
- golf/tennis, players spend thousands of dollars on equipment
- beach volleyball, players spend $100 (shorts and a ball)
Sponsors that sell an image like car companies
- golfers/tennis spend a lot to play and drive upscale cars
- beach volleyball players all want to play for free, drive old beaters or skateboard to the beach
Sponsors that sell alcohol
- golfers/tennis drink expensive scotch or wine
- volleyball players drink cheap beer or smuggle in hard alcohol nips
The demographics aren't the same...
I miss the heyday of the 90's... the NBC coverage, Chris Marlowe doing the announcing on TV, all the hype and production of the day. I don't think it's coming back.
Players need to do the work and not just say "increase the payouts". It'd take years of large payouts that go deeper into the draw to bring in more athletic players. How many players sincerely put effort into building a fan base, getting out there and talking to the fans and signing autographs? Posting to IG doesn't count. Unfortunately out of the top few players everyone else is probably followed by 10's of fans.
The ability to follow what's going on is horrifically painful. Your best shot is a player setting up a phone and livestreaming it? The results are slow, hard to find... it's brutal. Until this is solved the sport will gain no traction.
There are some ex pros that made a good living doing this (and since) and they aren't investing... what does that tell you?
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Post by cribbit on Apr 18, 2023 1:33:43 GMT -5
Tbh doesn't need crazy money to grow the sport, just do basic social media remotely properly
These days, good IG followers = good sponsors = $$$
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