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Post by robvolei on Nov 15, 2023 1:00:36 GMT -5
AVP should partner up with one of the US pro indoor leagues. Could make for some quality content and games if they do beach players vs indoor players competitions.
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Post by ajm on Nov 15, 2023 1:27:54 GMT -5
Misty May-Treanor: “AVP has lost me…so sad to watch it change.”
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Post by guest2 on Nov 15, 2023 1:35:00 GMT -5
Strongly disagree. 4's doesn't do it for me, personally. My opinion of course. Others swear by it. 4's is boring. I tried to watch the McKibbin's recent 4's games and I couldn't, too boring. A question worth asking I think is, "what is it we want to succeed?" Is it the AVP brand name? Any version of volleyball? If so why? I think some of us focus on "how can this be successful" thinking the "this" is the AVP, rather than the sport itself. For me what matters is the outdoor, largely beach-based, 2 on 2 game played mostly in some kind of tournament format. If that has to fundamentally change in order to succeed its probably not something I want to watch anymore. (I like 4s, co-ed, KOB and other things as occasional spices, but not the main product).
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Post by robvolei on Nov 15, 2023 4:29:02 GMT -5
4's is boring. I tried to watch the McKibbin's recent 4's games and I couldn't, too boring. A question worth asking I think is, "what is it we want to succeed?" Is it the AVP brand name? Any version of volleyball? If so why? I think some of us focus on "how can this be successful" thinking the "this" is the AVP, rather than the sport itself. For me what matters is the outdoor, largely beach-based, 2 on 2 game played mostly in some kind of tournament format. If that has to fundamentally change in order to succeed its probably not something I want to watch anymore. (I like 4s, co-ed, KOB and other things as occasional spices, but not the main product). I agree with Kent Steffes' opinion about the AVP....It being doomed and that the players need to take over and run the events with local promoters all over the US. The new format doesn't grow the sport but there will be interesting teams and matchups. It'll be fun while it's on but it won't do much for the sport in the US. The US needs a rival promotion or independent promoters that can host 3-5 big tournaments a season. There also needs to be a US Championships that teams accumulate points to win or they play an end of season tournament (it shouldn't be MBO, that has it's own prestige and history) to determine the National champs. Similar to tennis and the ATP/WTA finals. I prefer a US championships tournament.
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Post by racerjoe on Nov 15, 2023 6:29:47 GMT -5
Not enough details yet to really have a strong opinion.
My guess is they are running it late in the year to not interfere with the Olympics/ FIVB events. The y probably won’t full fields unlike some of their events earlier this year.
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Post by ajm on Nov 15, 2023 8:04:59 GMT -5
Not enough details yet to really have a strong opinion. My guess is they are running it late in the year to not interfere with the Olympics/ FIVB events. The y probably won’t full fields unlike some of their events earlier this year. In 2023 only one AVP event was held on a weekend where the Olympics will be held in 2024, Atlanta. For other reasons, it doesn’t sound like the AVP would be going back to Atlanta anyway. The US women’s Olympic teams are already set, as well as one of the men’s teams. Really, only 2-3 teams are still in contention for the final men’s spot and by the time the AVP would start its usual season next spring, that spot might be wrapped up also. There’s really no reason the AVP can’t coordinate its schedule with the FIVB and the US Olympic teams to maximize player availability for its traditional summer season.
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Post by robvolei on Nov 15, 2023 9:47:27 GMT -5
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Post by JB Southpaw on Nov 15, 2023 10:16:27 GMT -5
A question worth asking I think is, "what is it we want to succeed?" Is it the AVP brand name? Any version of volleyball? If so why? I think some of us focus on "how can this be successful" thinking the "this" is the AVP, rather than the sport itself. For me what matters is the outdoor, largely beach-based, 2 on 2 game played mostly in some kind of tournament format. If that has to fundamentally change in order to succeed its probably not something I want to watch anymore. (I like 4s, co-ed, KOB and other things as occasional spices, but not the main product). I agree with Kent Steffes' opinion about the AVP....It being doomed and that the players need to take over and run the events with local promoters all over the US. The new format doesn't grow the sport but there will be interesting teams and matchups. It'll be fun while it's on but it won't do much for the sport in the US. The US needs a rival promotion or independent promoters that can host 3-5 big tournaments a season. There also needs to be a US Championships that teams accumulate points to win or they play an end of season tournament (it shouldn't be MBO, that has it's own prestige and history) to determine the National champs. Similar to tennis and the ATP/WTA finals. I prefer a US championships tournament. I DO think this format would grow the game. I think you could see a broader use of club vs. club match style events instead of just tournaments. You can do a Tuesday night club v club, just like HS tennis does. Clubs can set a schedule, just like Little league, soccer or other sports instead of a full long day of a tournament. Incorporating local areas into a stronger AVP brand presence also is good. Look at MLS and their JR clubs. Let's say the FL club is called the Florida Strikers with a nice lightning bolt logo. IF they have Pros associated with them, it will trickle down. IF each franchise had a facility, the growth would happen. Still, LOTS more info needs to come out.
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Post by spideas on Nov 15, 2023 10:38:59 GMT -5
4's is boring. I tried to watch the McKibbin's recent 4's games and I couldn't, too boring. A question worth asking I think is, "what is it we want to succeed?" Is it the AVP brand name? Any version of volleyball? If so why? I think some of us focus on "how can this be successful" thinking the "this" is the AVP, rather than the sport itself. For me what matters is the outdoor, largely beach-based, 2 on 2 game played mostly in some kind of tournament format. If that has to fundamentally change in order to succeed its probably not something I want to watch anymore. (I like 4s, co-ed, KOB and other things as occasional spices, but not the main product). That is a question worth asking.... thanks guest2. What I want to succeed is that the best beach volleyball athletes can be treated as a professional athlete and compensated with a living wage. Like you, my preferred format is outdoor, largely beach-based with a 2 on 2 match. The overarching issue since the departure of Miller Brewing & Jose Cuervo is that there has not been a sustainable economic model to achieve that goal. To be considered, with the possible exception of Brazil there are no domestic tours globally that an athlete can make a living wage playing. I personally do my best to patronize the companies that sponsor the AVP, I subscribe to the streaming services and attend live events (I have not paid yet but would be happy to if they charged for all attendance...) The challenge that the AVP has always had is the ability to monetize casual fans (which is the requirement to pay the athletes a living wage). I am supportive of the new AVP format, will it work? I cannot tell you but I know that I am going to do what I can to aid in the effort...
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Post by robvolei on Nov 15, 2023 12:09:02 GMT -5
I agree with Kent Steffes' opinion about the AVP....It being doomed and that the players need to take over and run the events with local promoters all over the US. The new format doesn't grow the sport but there will be interesting teams and matchups. It'll be fun while it's on but it won't do much for the sport in the US. The US needs a rival promotion or independent promoters that can host 3-5 big tournaments a season. There also needs to be a US Championships that teams accumulate points to win or they play an end of season tournament (it shouldn't be MBO, that has it's own prestige and history) to determine the National champs. Similar to tennis and the ATP/WTA finals. I prefer a US championships tournament. I DO think this format would grow the game. I think you could see a broader use of club vs. club match style events instead of just tournaments. You can do a Tuesday night club v club, just like HS tennis does. Clubs can set a schedule, just like Little league, soccer or other sports instead of a full long day of a tournament. Incorporating local areas into a stronger AVP brand presence also is good. Look at MLS and their JR clubs. Let's say the FL club is called the Florida Strikers with a nice lightning bolt logo. IF they have Pros associated with them, it will trickle down. IF each franchise had a facility, the growth would happen. Still, LOTS more info needs to come out. Clubs could work if they did it similar to the NCAA beach format. Have pro teams it the top 1-3 flights and then some of the top local guys towards the bottom flights. I hope this new format boosts the AVP's popular and brings in new fans, tv deals, sponsors and money but I'm doubtful and more information needs to come out. There's a new league starting up in the US. The Pro Volleyball Federation. Sarah Sponcil will be playing for the Grand Rapid Rise. She'll be playing against teams from Atlanta, Columbus, San Diego, Orlando, Omaha and Las Vegas. The PVF should do a beach season after their indoor season and do the NCAA format. That would be fun.
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Post by blackmambabeto on Nov 15, 2023 12:10:05 GMT -5
My guess is they are running it late in the year to not interfere with the Olympics/ FIVB events. The y probably won’t full fields unlike some of their events earlier this year. that was my guess too
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jhw
Freshman
2023 Chicago Open Fantasy Beach Champion
Posts: 61
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Post by jhw on Nov 15, 2023 12:24:40 GMT -5
I think this league is a step in the right direction. 1. It creates a competitive market between franchises within the league which is the structure of almost every sport (besides golf/tennis but they have an equipment/country club niche that I don't think we can replicate) Isn't the sports niche in culture what has driven every flush period in its history? Isn't the beach culture the equivalent of the country club niche - you are 100% right on equipment though. There are a few other non-competitive league examples also (boxing, MMA, pro wrestling, MLS2. It lets people identify with a team beyond just who they like. If it is only 8 teams that's a big miss in my opinion because this league could give lower-level athletes a role to get more exposure if they are playing for a team. For example, it would make me as a Chicago fan care more about watching DJ Klasnic or Bill Kolinske in the round of 16 instead of only tuning in for the top 4 teams playing. Do people do that much anymore? Isnt the modern trend in sports fandom as much about following players as teams? I'd like better locations but 8 seems right to me, maybe even less. There isnt that much talent. If I were a new fan in Chicago for example and someone brought out Kolinske/Rafu as my team, I'd question why they couldn't get actual pro athletes3. It helps build a local fanbase. There are regular games at a designated space that people can attend. I love this part of the idea. Hermosa fans would go to 10 events a year if they had them, and this probably give them something like that (if only the scheduling were better) Really lets the sport get more out of diehards, which is a model that has worked for tons of niche media in the last 10 yearsThe major downside would be if it stretches the fanbase too thin, it could just make it so that there's no one watching anything. These are my preliminary thoughts. I also agree with the sentiment that I like that people are invested in trying to improve on what we have right now. Really enjoyed your post, added a few thoughs For your response to number 1. I wasn't around for that period, but I wonder at it's long term stability. What led to the downfall of that era?
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Post by guest2 on Nov 15, 2023 13:25:55 GMT -5
Really enjoyed your post, added a few thoughs For your response to number 1. I wasn't around for that period, but I wonder at it's long term stability. What led to the downfall of that era? I'd say it was two eras really. The truly golden years (basically everything involving Randy Stoklos) and then the early aughts Armato period. Both had great play, big crowds and a lot of lifestyle. I was watching a video of Jennings/Fuerby playing Rosie/Witt and I was surprised to see a bikini contest (or Nautica bikini fashion show, something like that). I hadn't remembered how aggressively the tour went back to the lifestyle aspect in the early 200s. The first ended because of mismanagement and the loss of key sponsors, mostly Cuervo for mainly coincidental reasons and Miller for a variety of reaons, but a big one was the players mismanaging the sport and the money. A contributing factor was many of the great promoters of the sport got old and retired leaving players like Karch, Kent, etc. at the top. Players who more took the sport for granted. (but sponsor loss was the big one). The Armato aughts failure, I think had to do with the players refusing a sale and overestimating what they were actually worth, although others would know that better than I. But when you watch video from either of those eras, you see sponsors like Ford, Coppertone, Miller of course, Sunkist, etc. Big, national brands with huge budgets that wanted to use the AVP to actually sell products. Most of the current sponsors are either tiny, niche companies or ones owned by people interested in the game, i.e. charity. I am equally unsure of the long term stability but to robvolei and Kent's suggestion about the players taking over, I'd point out that at least three times, players running things, or contributing to it, has resulted in disasters (plus the current players are not exactly Sinjin Smith in terms of promoting the game)
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Post by spideas on Nov 15, 2023 14:27:38 GMT -5
I was bored in a meeting, so I put together what the teams might look like based on the 8 teams. I would assume that they are going to have a male captain and female captain... 6 athletes on each team.. Team 1 Captains: #1 Male & #8 Female Team 2: #1 Female & #8 Male and so on.... They could do a snake draft to pick the 6 athletes for each team and away they go. This is what it would look like based on year end AVP ranking points..... Using the Major League Pickleball format discussed (1 Men's set, 1 Women's Set & Two Mixed Sets).... Some compelling match ups...
Team Captain #1 Captain #2 Player 3 Player 4 Player 5 Player 6 Brooklyn Partain Scoles Bourne Quiggle Alison Urango New York Budinger Nuss Schalk Schermerhorn Field Muno San Diego Benesh Flint Dalhausser Harward Cook D. Kraft Los Angeles Kloth Evans Drost Kolinske Cory Rice Miami Brunner Mel H-P Caldwell Graudina Lotman Pavan Palm Beach Hughes Sander Allen M. Kraft Bomgren Simo Austin Tr. Crabb Cheng Webber Sponcil Brewster Rodriguez Dallas Wilkerson Ta. Crabb Smith Cannon Friend Bauer
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Post by JB Southpaw on Nov 15, 2023 15:18:11 GMT -5
I was bored in a meeting, so I put together what the teams might look like based on the 8 teams. I would assume that they are going to have a male captain and female captain... 6 athletes on each team.. Team 1 Captains: #1 Male & #8 Female Team 2: #1 Female & #8 Male and so on.... They could do a snake draft to pick the 6 athletes for each team and away they go. This is what it would look like based on year end AVP ranking points..... Using the Major League Pickleball format discussed (1 Men's set, 1 Women's Set & Two Mixed Sets).... Some compelling match ups... Team Captain #1 Captain #2 Player 3 Player 4 Player 5 Player 6 Brooklyn Partain Scoles Bourne Quiggle Alison Urango New York Budinger Nuss Schalk Schermerhorn Field Muno San Diego Benesh Flint Dalhausser Harward Cook D. Kraft Los Angeles Kloth Evans Drost Kolinske Cory Rice Miami Brunner Mel H-P Caldwell Graudina Lotman Pavan Palm Beach Hughes Sander Allen M. Kraft Bomgren Simo Austin Tr. Crabb Cheng Webber Sponcil Brewster Rodriguez Dallas Wilkerson Ta. Crabb Smith Cannon Friend Bauer Not sure this is how it goes down as far as formatting. But interesting order!
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