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Post by nakedcrayon on Jul 9, 2024 11:23:24 GMT -5
Rumor is they are expecting 1900 teams for boys next year...quite a jump from under 1300 this season. If true no way they can ever go back to 1 session even of they wanted to
I actually liked the 8 team pools for Open if only 48 next year I bet that is the way to go...seeding will be important
As the midwest and east get stronger I can see Open fields not dominated by Californina in a few years at the older divisions...younger maybe because the boys get a later start in the sport in the midwest and east coast although that will change as well
Rumor is 7 sessions by 2026 4 girls 3 boys or 4/2 and a combo boys girls
Girls sessions still have to concern itself with USAV national dates, not so much in the future for the boys
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Post by nakedcrayon on Jul 9, 2024 15:53:18 GMT -5
The two waves (a promise made by AAU that would not happen) was brutal. If the game is growing then it is inevitable to occur, just faster than most people expected There was a rumor circulating that 12,13, and 14's were moving a session earlier now with Girls 17's so there will be 3 sessions of boys. Orlando is what it is. Its hot, its humid. The rain actually helps and makes it somewhat bearable. A few of the days the heat index was over 120. 730am starts could do without and not sure why some courts were 730 and some were 8. Although it did seem to ease the congestion and rideshare lines by doing that. That is the exact reason for doing so, along with changing some protocols for rosters
The 48 team open will certainly make things interesting and teams will really have to wonder about moving down to Elite now with their second teams instead of premier. 3 teams getting out was tough and really had to be on for every match. Any incorrect seeding made it tough for fringe teams. SPRI 16's being a 3 seed in a pool for example then they go to finals. I was not a fan of the 3 team bracket to advance to gold. Much preferred the 3 team pool prior to Gold/Silver/Bronze All in all, it is what it is. AAU has complete control of the boys. Unless SoCal gets angry again there will be no change. AAU gave us all of these promises and they are all reverting back to USAV ways. It was nice that 1 year I was home for the 4th of July. Officiating was brutal but I would not care after being there a month either. The amount of poor sportsmanship allowed to be carried out with no sanctions was disturbing as well. I mean a literal fight broke out on 1 court. D escribe officiating please, we heard about the fight and talked to some people who witnessed it. Directive was to let them play and not be as nit picky unless really bad but after 24 days of volleyball many were tired Great competition and some tremendous teams and players. We have a great community for sure and just hope we are doing best by the kids and not individuals bank accounts. |
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Jul 9, 2024 15:56:45 GMT -5
Rumor is they are expecting 1900 teams for boys next year...quite a jump from under 1300 this season. If true no way they can ever go back to 1 session even of they wanted to I actually liked the 8 team pools for Open if only 48 next year I bet that is the way to go...seeding will be important As the midwest and east get stronger I can see Open fields not dominated by Californina in a few years at the older divisions...younger maybe because the boys get a later start in the sport in the midwest and east coast although that will change as well Rumor is 7 sessions by 2026 4 girls 3 boys or 4/2 and a combo boys girls Girls sessions still have to concern itself with USAV national dates, not so much in the future for the boys 8 team pools will help courts but not tournament flow. They did 8 team pools to get brackets of 8 & 4. They will probably stay with an 8 team bracket. |
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Post by 31shoot on Jul 10, 2024 5:46:59 GMT -5
The two waves (a promise made by AAU that would not happen) was brutal. If the game is growing then it is inevitable to occur, just faster than most people expected There was a rumor circulating that 12,13, and 14's were moving a session earlier now with Girls 17's so there will be 3 sessions of boys. Orlando is what it is. Its hot, its humid. The rain actually helps and makes it somewhat bearable. A few of the days the heat index was over 120. 730am starts could do without and not sure why some courts were 730 and some were 8. Although it did seem to ease the congestion and rideshare lines by doing that. That is the exact reason for doing so, along with changing some protocols for rosters
The 48 team open will certainly make things interesting and teams will really have to wonder about moving down to Elite now with their second teams instead of premier. 3 teams getting out was tough and really had to be on for every match. Any incorrect seeding made it tough for fringe teams. SPRI 16's being a 3 seed in a pool for example then they go to finals. I was not a fan of the 3 team bracket to advance to gold. Much preferred the 3 team pool prior to Gold/Silver/Bronze All in all, it is what it is. AAU has complete control of the boys. Unless SoCal gets angry again there will be no change. AAU gave us all of these promises and they are all reverting back to USAV ways. It was nice that 1 year I was home for the 4th of July. Officiating was brutal but I would not care after being there a month either. The amount of poor sportsmanship allowed to be carried out with no sanctions was disturbing as well. I mean a literal fight broke out on 1 court. D escribe officiating please, we heard about the fight and talked to some people who witnessed it. Directive was to let them play and not be as nit picky unless really bad but after 24 days of volleyball many were tired Great competition and some tremendous teams and players. We have a great community for sure and just hope we are doing best by the kids and not individuals bank accounts. Re: officiating. The amount of R2s who just didn’t watch the net was absurd. Honestly the reffing was atrocious except for the handful of Canadian refs I came across who were quite good. I had a number of refs tell me this was the first time they’ve ever reffed boys volleyball, which was also baffling. I would say 20% were very good and 80% were clearly in over their head without much in between. I’m fine with them being less nit-picky unless it’s really bad, but all you need to really do to control the match is a few wags of fhe finger and whistles to keep it your side of the net. More than anything, it’s very clear that the vast majority didn’t have enough experience with boys, let alone boys open. |
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Jul 10, 2024 5:57:51 GMT -5
Re: officiating. The amount of R2s who just didn’t watch the net was absurd. Honestly the reffing was atrocious except for the handful of Canadian refs I came across who were quite good. I had a number of refs tell me this was the first time they’ve ever reffed boys volleyball, which was also baffling. I would say 20% were very good and 80% were clearly in over their head without much in between. I’m fine with them being less nit-picky unless it’s really bad, but all you need to really do to control the match is a few wags of fhe finger and whistles to keep it your side of the net. More than anything, it’s very clear that the vast majority didn’t have enough experience with boys, let alone boys open. Wild because I only had maybe two really bad reffing issues. A blatant missed four contact after being blocked. And in our semi final match a ball that was down but they played through it and never overturned it. Out of 11 matches, I would say that was pretty good. The trigger happy officials with cards though was out of line. I got one yellow card this week and I’ll be honest, I’m not afraid to get a card here or there but this card was ridiculous. Having a respectful conversation trying to figure out what angles were missed on that 4 contact (the call made it 13-14 in the first round of that 3 team bracket) and the R2 literally looked at the R1 and said yellow card head coach, turned to me and said “would you like me to make it red”. I can heated, this was not it by any means. Won the match, but that was pretty crucial. I was told that officials actually had to report what boys events they had done this year. I also was told a lot of officials were frustrated because the AAU over hired, so some officials who were okay with doing 8 matches a day would only do 4-5. If you do the match, significant amount of money you’re losing out on. This all came from a friend of mine who was down there. But I will say officiating at the level I was at, 17 open, was better than I’ve seen in a long time. |
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Post by 31shoot on Jul 10, 2024 7:56:21 GMT -5
Re: officiating. The amount of R2s who just didn’t watch the net was absurd. Honestly the reffing was atrocious except for the handful of Canadian refs I came across who were quite good. I had a number of refs tell me this was the first time they’ve ever reffed boys volleyball, which was also baffling. I would say 20% were very good and 80% were clearly in over their head without much in between. I’m fine with them being less nit-picky unless it’s really bad, but all you need to really do to control the match is a few wags of fhe finger and whistles to keep it your side of the net. More than anything, it’s very clear that the vast majority didn’t have enough experience with boys, let alone boys open. Wild because I only had maybe two really bad reffing issues. A blatant missed four contact after being blocked. And in our semi final match a ball that was down but they played through it and never overturned it. Out of 11 matches, I would say that was pretty good. The trigger happy officials with cards though was out of line. I got one yellow card this week and I’ll be honest, I’m not afraid to get a card here or there but this card was ridiculous. Having a respectful conversation trying to figure out what angles were missed on that 4 contact (the call made it 13-14 in the first round of that 3 team bracket) and the R2 literally looked at the R1 and said yellow card head coach, turned to me and said “would you like me to make it red”. I can heated, this was not it by any means. Won the match, but that was pretty crucial. I was told that officials actually had to report what boys events they had done this year. I also was told a lot of officials were frustrated because the AAU over hired, so some officials who were okay with doing 8 matches a day would only do 4-5. If you do the match, significant amount of money you’re losing out on. This all came from a friend of mine who was down there. But I will say officiating at the level I was at, 17 open, was better than I’ve seen in a long time. Oh, don’t get me wrong it was definitely much better than last year and the year before. However, it’s still disappointing to know that we’re missing a ton of USAV national referees at really the only boys national tournament now. |
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Post by gofaster88 on Jul 10, 2024 8:28:13 GMT -5
Wild because I only had maybe two really bad reffing issues. A blatant missed four contact after being blocked. And in our semi final match a ball that was down but they played through it and never overturned it. Out of 11 matches, I would say that was pretty good. The trigger happy officials with cards though was out of line. I got one yellow card this week and I’ll be honest, I’m not afraid to get a card here or there but this card was ridiculous. Having a respectful conversation trying to figure out what angles were missed on that 4 contact (the call made it 13-14 in the first round of that 3 team bracket) and the R2 literally looked at the R1 and said yellow card head coach, turned to me and said “would you like me to make it red”. I can heated, this was not it by any means. Won the match, but that was pretty crucial. I was told that officials actually had to report what boys events they had done this year. I also was told a lot of officials were frustrated because the AAU over hired, so some officials who were okay with doing 8 matches a day would only do 4-5. If you do the match, significant amount of money you’re losing out on. This all came from a friend of mine who was down there. But I will say officiating at the level I was at, 17 open, was better than I’ve seen in a long time. Oh, don’t get me wrong it was definitely much better than last year and the year before. However, it’s still disappointing to know that we’re missing a ton of USAV national referees at really the only boys national tournament now. Are they paying the same as USAV? 100% the officiating was better, but I wonder if that's because nobody was calling doubles or prolonged contacts anymore. Setters and Middles basically throwing/dunking balls at this point. No point in arguing if it's consistent I guess but from an old school standpoint it's uglier. 10 matches in Open 17s and I didn't see one called but did see 4-5 yellow cards which I thought was rare. |
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Jul 10, 2024 13:35:05 GMT -5
Oh, don’t get me wrong it was definitely much better than last year and the year before. However, it’s still disappointing to know that we’re missing a ton of USAV national referees at really the only boys national tournament now. Are they paying the same as USAV? 100% the officiating was better, but I wonder if that's because nobody was calling doubles or prolonged contacts anymore. Setters and Middles basically throwing/dunking balls at this point. No point in arguing if it's consistent I guess but from an old school standpoint it's uglier. 10 matches in Open 17s and I didn't see one called but did see 4-5 yellow cards which I thought was rare. Not sure about pay. But that is just part of the game. I’m certain that one club trains this type of ball handling in tight set opportunities the amount of times I see the club do it. I do think it’s getting slightly out of hand. |
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Post by wilbur on Jul 10, 2024 14:24:41 GMT -5
Are they paying the same as USAV? 100% the officiating was better, but I wonder if that's because nobody was calling doubles or prolonged contacts anymore. Setters and Middles basically throwing/dunking balls at this point. No point in arguing if it's consistent I guess but from an old school standpoint it's uglier. 10 matches in Open 17s and I didn't see one called but did see 4-5 yellow cards which I thought was rare. Not sure about pay. But that is just part of the game. I’m certain that one club trains this type of ball handling in tight set opportunities the amount of times I see the club do it. I do think it’s getting slightly out of hand. Did that club happen to win 17 Open? |
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Post by gtrich on Jul 10, 2024 14:55:53 GMT -5
I'm glad you guys had consistently good refs, but ours in 18 Open were either really good, or really bad. The same for the kids watching lines. However, I've given up charging that windmill and just accept the fact that most of the kid watching the lines won't be paying attention 90% of the time. We also had a situation in our match with Rockstar where a coach, not a kid, but the coach of the work team screwed up the scoresheet. I guess none of their players knew how to keep the book and she had to do it. In the second set, she mistakenly marked that the L served for our M1 in the beginning of the game. A few plays later, the score was 6-10 and we won a big point to make it 7-10. Our M2 rotated to the serve position and the L came in to serve. Our L quickly scored two points on his serve to make it 9-10 and Rockstar called a time out. During the time out, the coach that was keeping the book went to the R2 and said we had an illegal server and that he had already served for the M1. Big argument consumes over the fact that the book was incorrect. People pulled up video of the second set to show the book was wrong and neither the R1 nor R2 would look at it. We protested, 3 scoring officials came over and after a 35 minute delay and a lot of score sheet evaluations, they came out and said sorry, the book says your L served for the M1 and we can't reverse that. Never mind that the R2 was having to help fix the book the entire first set, or that the Rockstar coach told them they were wrong as well. They still wouldn't accept that they screwed up. So we get a yellow card for delay of game and the score gets changed from 9-10 to 7-11. It completely destroyed the momentum of the game. We also had to deal with line judges for that same team that basically stared at the ceiling the entire game and missed a bunch of calls.
I know their rules say that video replay isn't allowed, and I'm fine with there being no reply on judgement calls. However, when you have a protest on an out of rotation call, an ineligible server, or a book error, it would take two seconds to go look at the baller feed that is on every court to make sure you get the call right. Especially when you hear the head officials joking that they go back to the tournament desk and look at the baller footage so they can see how wrong the team making the protest was for things like ball on court of balls hit in or out.
So hopefully next year they'll add some kind of exception to the rules for replays related to book or rotation issues. they also need to make it a requirement that each team has someone that is certified to keep score.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2024 18:40:33 GMT -5
Damn, way to put the LVS Soa 18 coach on blast
To be fair, next season with the change in Open qualification, that club doesn’t make Open to begin with and won’t be an issue not knowing how to book
Also to be fair, it was 30 min not an hour delay. At least that’s what the time stamps on Baller show. Still way too long but like… if it was 30 min say 30 min… don’t say an hour when it wasn’t
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Post by nakedcrayon on Jul 10, 2024 19:00:09 GMT -5
To answer some of the previous comments
Refs did not have to list what boys events they had done. Some come from states and areas that have a ton of boys VB some came from states that do not have many boys events
Not many refs I interacted with were from Cali...one I think of the 80-90 or so I worked with over all sessions
"A blantant missed four contact after blocked" doesnt make sense, it was either blocked back to restart the 3 contacts or not blocked but I maybe I am just missing some info
Too many officials did cause lower match counts then expected and I know of quite a few who wont come back because they made less money and took vacation days from job to ref certain sessions. This I bet will be fixed in future as the tourney was well run. Each official got the roughly same number of matches per session just many expected more
As for USAV national refs, remember one the boys division was at the exactly same time as USAV girls nationals in Vegas. Many left before the boys began.
Pay is better that most tourneys and you get to R2 which is highly unusual most of the year except maybe championship days at qualifiers.
Most refs who havent seen boys ball are not used to the two handed dump and down the line two handed dump that boys love to do. I got to do quite a bit of Open ball and it seemed from reaction most coaches want you to let them play unless blatent at that level. The ones who wanted doubles seemed to be in the Club division but that was just my interpretation.
It is a well run tourney, some great ball both in girls and boys IMO. I look forward to next year. Just hope over all the sessions I get about 20 more matches total which should happen if the number of refs accepted is correlated to the number of teams per session.
On a side note I looked up the SoCal Cup and see they are expanding to other geographical areas in 2025. Does anyone know if that is Fall of 2025 or Spring of 2025. I love to go to other areas and being from Texas we dont have a ton of boys VB at the club level and not certified at the HS level in this state
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Post by GrowingTheGame14 on Jul 10, 2024 20:19:54 GMT -5
To answer some of the previous comments Refs did not have to list what boys events they had done. Some come from states and areas that have a ton of boys VB some came from states that do not have many boys events Not many refs I interacted with were from Cali...one I think of the 80-90 or so I worked with over all sessions "A blantant missed four contact after blocked" doesnt make sense, it was either blocked back to restart the 3 contacts or not blocked but I maybe I am just missing some info Too many officials did cause lower match counts then expected and I know of quite a few who wont come back because they made less money and took vacation days from job to ref certain sessions. This I bet will be fixed in future as the tourney was well run. Each official got the roughly same number of matches per session just many expected more As for USAV national refs, remember one the boys division was at the exactly same time as USAV girls nationals in Vegas. Many left before the boys began. Pay is better that most tourneys and you get to R2 which is highly unusual most of the year except maybe championship days at qualifiers. Most refs who havent seen boys ball are not used to the two handed dump and down the line two handed dump that boys love to do. I got to do quite a bit of Open ball and it seemed from reaction most coaches want you to let them play unless blatent at that level. The ones who wanted doubles seemed to be in the Club division but that was just my interpretation. It is a well run tourney, some great ball both in girls and boys IMO. I look forward to next year. Just hope over all the sessions I get about 20 more matches total which should happen if the number of refs accepted is correlated to the number of teams per session. On a side note I looked up the SoCal Cup and see they are expanding to other geographical areas in 2025. Does anyone know if that is Fall of 2025 or Spring of 2025. I love to go to other areas and being from Texas we dont have a ton of boys VB at the club level and not certified at the HS level in this state Some good info here. The ball was blocked and hit the attacker that was hitting in the head and went to the complete opposite side of where the block direction was, libero made a play on it to the OH, who then set the Oppo to get a swing on it. Fairly obvious when it happened, just missed. |
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Post by nonathleticperson on Jul 10, 2024 20:28:57 GMT -5
Not sure about pay. But that is just part of the game. I’m certain that one club trains this type of ball handling in tight set opportunities the amount of times I see the club do it. I do think it’s getting slightly out of hand. Did that club happen to win 17 Open? If that's what the game is moving towards, isn't it coaching malpractice to not train it?
Either way, eventually there will be another reset. Ball-handling leniency/strictness is always cyclical.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 11, 2024 3:32:07 GMT -5
Did that club happen to win 17 Open? If that's what the game is moving towards, isn't it coaching malpractice to not train it?
Either way, eventually there will be another reset. Ball-handling leniency/strictness is always cyclical.
I agree, more teams should train it. I don't hate it but refs are still learning to call it properly and consistently. Some of the players that use it a lot get away with taking the ball across their body on inside tight sets that should be called a lift. If should be called with the same standard that the hand sets are called. Some refs have a hard time seeing this. Hopefully time will improve this. |
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