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Post by cbrown1709 on Apr 5, 2007 2:16:40 GMT -5
Terry Petitt
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Post by roy on Apr 5, 2007 4:12:12 GMT -5
If dave shoji is so great, and Hawaii has great fan support and university support and all that good stuff, why havn't they won a NC in forever? That's a serious question, not a dig / flame. Alright, alright. I'll take a shot at it. There are a lot of factors to consider. First, consider that Hawaii's last title came in 1987. From 1988 - 1994, regions were actually conference based. Hence, Hawaii always had Pacific and Long Beach to contend with in the regionals. It would be similar to putting Penn State, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Ohio State all in the same regional. It makes it harder to win a title when you are seeing a conference foe for the third time. Another reason (and many Hawaii fans will take varied views on it), is that Hawaii hasn't been able to get the talent that Nebraska, Florida, and Stanford have gotten. Looking at most of Hawaii's recruits, Hawaii hasn't gotten a lot of those top tier players as others have. Of course, this is due to varied reason, but in recent memory, I can only think of about 4-5 players in ranked in the top 10 as prep players (Kamanoa, Houston, Willoughby, and Boogard; Salaeumua commit but didn't end up at Hawaii). Most of Hawaii's recruits hover around the 25-30 on the prep lists. And while Hawaii has the opportunity to develop these players, they are not getting players like Tom, Pavan, or Klineman who will make an impact for 4 years. I think part of it has to do with Shoji's coaching style. I think part of his strategy is a little out-dated. That being said, he is one of the winningest coaches all time, has the top volleyball program that doesn't have any BCS money (not to mention one of the top programs in the nation), built from scratch the only completely financially viable volleyball program in the nation. He founded this program, so he has every right to do whatever he wants and I personally don't think anyone else has the right to be overly critical. And part of it is just the cycle of programs. Long Beach was a major contender in the 80s and 90s but haven't done anything after 2001. Florida was a major contender for about 10 years but has been out of the Final Four for the past 3 seasons and Gator fans admit that if they don't make it this season, it will be a while before they make it there again. Penn State made 3 back to back championship appearances but has only 1 title and haven't been to the Final Four since. UCLA and USC were dominant in their times and only recently came back to be threats. |
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Post by tsunami on Apr 5, 2007 5:19:05 GMT -5
I have to agree with you there. But Shoji makes the best of the players he does get. Most come into the program not highly recruited and not even looked at as starting material by other top programs. By the time they leave majority have earned All-American honors or NPOY honors.
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Post by aaronic on Apr 5, 2007 5:27:54 GMT -5
By the time they leave majority have earned All-American honors or NPOY honors. Wasn't Willoughby a Top 3 or Top 5 recruit? I'm sure she was probably already highly touted if so.... would that still qualify? Anjelica Ljundquist? Teee Williams? Deitre Collins? All of them weren't highly touted? Granted maybe you might be holding out for someone like Houston to win POY, but I don't think anyone who has won the award in the past- at least has never been "expected" to. I would agree with AA honors, but NPOY- that's a bit too exaggerative. |
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Post by aaronic on Apr 5, 2007 5:35:28 GMT -5
... but anyway...
Banachowski
Dunning
Shaw
Pettit
Shoji
with Haley, Gimmillaro, Hebert, and Rose a hair behind...
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Post by parent on Apr 5, 2007 5:59:36 GMT -5
Hebert has never won a national championship - not sure he belongs on this list because of that.
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Post by holidayhusker on Apr 5, 2007 6:40:19 GMT -5
John Cook. Like it or not his record speaks for itself.
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Post by Phaedrus on Apr 5, 2007 7:23:21 GMT -5
I have been observing this from afar and it occurs to me that this mental masturbation occurs yearly and everyone and their uncle have hardened their stance and arguments for and against certain coaches. So in order to simplify the process I have the following options and you all can just start pairing your choices up. Multiple reasons can be cited, as always.
1) Andy Banachowski
2) John Cook
3) Jim Dunning
4) Brian Gimillaro
5) Mick Haley
6) Mike Hebert
7) Jim McLaughlin
8) Russ Rose
9) Dave Shoji
10) Mary Wise
Because:
a) Has won multiple championships.
b) Has won one championship
c) Is a great trainer
d) Is a great recruiter
e) Is a hell of a nice person
f) Has never beaten his dog
g) Coaches for my alma mater
h) Coaches for a school that I have never enrolled at but I cheer for anyways because I have no other life
i) Coaches for Hawaii
j) Has coached a bunch of unathletic midgets to the conference championship/NCAA regionals/NCAA final 4/NCAA chamionships XX years in a row.
k) Is a believer in the cult of the Cauldron and is a Carl McGown disciple, even though the Cauldron originated with Anson Dorrance and UNC soccer.
l) Had a cup of coffee at the National Team level.
I don't think these other schmucks belong because:
A) Has never won a championship
B) Coaches for the rival school
C) Coaches for a school that I have no reason to hate except that I have no life whatsoever, see h) above.
D) I have heard that (s)he kicks (her)his dog from the fourth cousin eight times removed of (her)his next door neighbor's pool cleaner.
E) I heard (s)he is a devil worshipper from...see above
F) Didn't recruit me or didn't recruit my daughter
G) She is a woman and women coaches are never any good
H) Always coaches a team of stud underachievers.
I) Have never played the game in a HS/college/professional/national team level.
J) Has no fashion sense.
K) Living off of the laurels, coasting to retirement
L) Assistants did all the work.
M) Is not an X's and O's coach.
N) Is not a trainer
O) Is not a recruiter.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Apr 5, 2007 8:00:36 GMT -5
Hebert has never won a national championship - not sure he belongs on this list because of that. Hebert has demonstrated national level success at two different institutions. You need to be a heck of a coach in order to do that. |
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Apr 5, 2007 8:03:21 GMT -5
If dave shoji is so great, and Hawaii has great fan support and university support and all that good stuff, why havn't they won a NC in forever? That's a serious question, not a dig / flame. Has Florida won any at all?...hmmmmm........I DIDN'T THINK SO!!!! . Of course, no one at that point had said anything about Mary Wise, so I don't know that this has to do with anything. |
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Post by silversurfer on Apr 5, 2007 8:15:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure Dunning's a great "coach." Pacific was going nowhere. He's a great facilitator, great at putting pieces in the right place.
Banachowski is the same as Dunning.
Gimmillaro, Hebert, Haley, Rose, Shoji, McLaughlin, Wise are great coaches. I think Feller is very good, too.
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Post by Gelatinous Mass on Apr 5, 2007 10:00:41 GMT -5
Based on the idea that being a top recruiter is a key component to being a good coach Jerritt Elliot might have to be on this list...yes I know there are many who have issues with his coaching style/ability/mannerisms/etc that have been on VT before. But he did recruit backtoback championship teams at USC and he is doing a great job at UT bringing in top players. If he goes to the final four the next couple of years and wins a championship...he should be on the list. Another coach who hasn't been mentioned who seems to be a really good coach is Stevenson at Cal Poly. Hasn't won the "big" one yet but is a really good coach.
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Post by BoilerUp! on Apr 5, 2007 10:15:39 GMT -5
What struck me first was that all the names initially mentioned were men's names.
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Post by AntennaMagnet on Apr 5, 2007 11:00:07 GMT -5
We all know about the big dogs. I would be interested in opinions regarding the most improved coaches in NCAA womens volleyball.
Conversely, which previously up and coming coaches have plateaued or regressed ?
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Post by Chance on Apr 5, 2007 11:00:26 GMT -5
If dave shoji is so great, and Hawaii has great fan support and university support and all that good stuff, why havn't they won a NC in forever? That's a serious question, not a dig / flame. Alright, alright. I'll take a shot at it... Thank you for not completely missing the point like everyone else did. Why do they have problems getting those top flight recruits? Are a lot of mainland people reluctant to move out to an island far away, or is there some other reason? |
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